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Lane Sharing is it time to legislate it?

Any idea where a list of moto-friendly CA legislators might be obtained?

Perhaps a pre-emptive campaign of reasonable letters/emails to our supporters is in order.

Ask the AMA? The problem is that motorcyclists aren't isolated to a single area, so it'd be tough to get a legislator to back a bill that doesn't directly benefit his/her constituents. With that said, you'd want it to be a Democratic legislator. Since they're the dominant party, they tend to get the most bills passed. Bipartisan support would be even better.
 
Any idea where a list of moto-friendly CA legislators might be obtained?

Perhaps a pre-emptive campaign of reasonable letters/emails to our supporters is in order.

The AMA has it on their site (you need to be a member though...which you should be :p). They give all of them a survey to fill out, then rate their answers which covers street and dirt riding. Most of them didn't fill it out, but its interesting to see the answers of those that did. You can actually see the surveys in their own handwriting.

Anyway they still have the 2010 voter guide on the site. Go check it out.
 
Be warned. I will delete any off topic or derogatory posts in this thread. Lets keep this on topic and leave emotions out of it.



No lane sharing at speeds in excess of 55 MPH?
Lane sharing only allowed between the #1 and #2 lanes?
No speed differential greater than 10 MPH?


I am very interested to hear what folks have to say.

I've been out of town and just saw this thread, so I have not read all the responses yet and just would like to throw in my 2cents.

During my trip, I was in Miami and besides seeing a whole buncha people on bikes w/o helmets, I got to see some interesting lane "splitting". I watched one sportbike rider working his way through traffic, sees the cop car and then decides to split between the #1 and the center divider past the cop.

IMHO the biggest way to pass legislation regulating lane sharing is to not only prove that, when done prudently, is not only safer, but is better for the environment. One less vehicle, sitting, idling in traffic.

I'd be fine w/ no lane sharing above the posted speed limit/safe speed, between the #1 and #2 lanes, and no more than a 15 MPH delta above traffic speeds. I also think that it should be a skill set that should be taught in rider training. I'd also like to see enhanced penalties for vehicles interfering with legal lane sharing (Ya, know, like opening car doors, swerving etc.)
 
California is basically bankrupt and the politicans don't have anything better to worry about than this? The BARF thought police will probably delete this post, but this is really idiotic. But heck, if having a law saying that splitting below 55 mph is legal, then why not? At least you have that ground staked out. And above 55 mph? Let the MFs catch you if they can.
 
Still no answers on how to "educate" motorists and riders with the current legalities.

No suggestions?

This is truely a great topic.... Like somebody else just said, I have been out of the loop for a bit and just got into this discussion.

In a past life as a fed (NHTSA) I also sat on this committee, or one like it... and I will use my fed experience to provide some info on this topic, I have been thinking about it for a few years. In the past few years NHTSA has done lots of studies on how to reach people with traffic safety messages. Their whole seatbelt media message (Click-it or Ticket) was designed to reach a certain age group, the group that statistics said were the least likely to use a seat belt. By identifying the group they could identify general characteristics of that group and then tailor a message and media outlets to them.

When we are talking about the car driving public as a whole there is no one media outlet or type of message that will stick with all of them, or grab their attention. This makes it difficult to get a message out to "everybody."

The same is true for the motorcycle community. You are not going to reach a harley rider the same way you are going to reach a sports bike rider, the same way you are going to reach a cruiser or a dual sport rider. And the messages themselves to these riders needs to be a little different to address them... that is what they will listen to.

...oh and I have to say that I firmly believe it is more important to educate the riding community than it is the motoring public. From my perspective, we shoot ourselves in the foot more times than we help ourselves... the majority of the riders I see are not the nicest people to people in cars.

I guess what I am saying, my experience is that there is no one size fits all for either the riding community or the driving community. So any single message will have a limited effect. But.... there was one message medium I liked alot.... the freeway message boards. You have a captive audience and it gets to most all of the people we want to get a message out to....

The two problems... limited space, and distraction. Everytime there is a message on one of those boards, traffic stacks up.

And.... the last time it was used it was a message to car drivers.... put out a message to motorcycle riders... I think this is important for two reasons... shows the car drivers that it is recognized that motorcycles can be part of the problem, and it reaches most types of riders.... How about a message like, "Riders, slow down between cars."

And last but not least, Data Dan and I have been talking about this very topic for a few months now... As always Dan is on the money and on time with what he does... I am dropping the ball on what I need to do.... My position.... when done correctly, lane sharing represents a distinct safety advantage to motorcycles... but like I said before... we shoot ourselves in the foot more times than we help ourselves..... and like most people say... it is not me... it is that other rider... that stupid (fill in the blank) motorcycle rider.
 
Damn guys... awesome stuff..:thumbup

Thanks for the great material links Masa!

The pole of non-riders was way cool too!

MCSFTGUY as well.

Great food for thought.
 
In the MSF course, we talk about a "ladder of risk" and a "crash chain" of causation, where the more risk factors are present, the more likely a crash will happen. So, in those 13 crashes, were the riders just innocently splitting between 1 and 2, with a speed delta of less than 15 mph when a car quickly changed lanes and took them out in every case? Or were they splitting, being inattentive, unaware of the width of their bike (that happened in one case, I'm pretty sure) drunk, or riding in poor visibility/road conditions? If so, splitting was just one factor of many, not the primary cause. It kind of surprises me that you see it otherwise.
That's a good point: What else was going on that may have contributed to the crash? Would it have been likely even if the rider weren't splitting?

My unstated assumption that splitting was the crucial factor is a result of reading about these crashes for a long time. Circumstances generally haven't suggested to me that riders are taking excessive risk in other ways. But that's just an impression. So I revisited the Bay Area lane-splitting deaths more objectively, to see what other risks were present. This is what I found:

  • All occurred on weekdays, between 6:00am and 6:00pm.
  • All but one occurred on a freeway (exception was a busy surface street).
  • Alcohol was not a factor; the only rider above .00 was a .03 at 4:15pm.
  • All riders had valid motorcycle licenses.
  • 9 riders were age 45+, 2 were under 30.
  • 7 motorcycles were cruisers, 2 sportbikes, 1 tourer, 1 sport-tourer.
Here are 11 of the 12 Bay Area lane-splitting deaths I know about since 2004. I've omitted the 2004 death of a moto-LEO. And, in the 13 crashes I mentioned previously, I had erroreously included a Tracy crash. Since I have not included San Joaquin County in my other Bay Area analyses, I shouldn't include the lane-splitting crash.

lanes | mc speed | traf speed | description
unknown | 48 | unknown | hit car that changed lanes in traffic slowing for another crash
1-2 | 18 | 15 | crashed under braking next to truck; fell under trailer
1-2 | 15 | 8 | hit truck; fell under trailer
unknown | 55 | 35 | split into slowing traffic, hit car, fell under big-rig trailer
1-2 | 63 | 38 | swerved into SUV that had changed lanes; fell under car
1-2 | unknown | 25 | attempting to split at "high speed", hit trailer
unknown | 33 | 33 | hit bus while splitting, fell under tires
1-2 | 30 | 5 | hit two-axle truck, fell under big rig in opposite lane
1-2 | 20 | unknown | hit big rig
unknown | 75 | unknown | swerved to avoid lane changer and fell
1-2 | 70 | 60 | split between truck and car; hit one, then the other, and fell

With a few exceptions, these riders weren't at uncommon speeds and deltas. Most of us have been there, if only briefly. These riders were generally following the "rules" but didn't recognize the threats that tragically took them out.

The BARF threads about splitting crashes (link to my post earlier in this thread) are similar. None of those riders was doing anything stupid. They just fell victim to unanticipated danger.

That's why I worry about the future of lane splitting in California. Motorcyclists have doubled in number in the past 10 years, and more are commuting. Splitting to cut down time on the road is a big attraction. But many inexperienced splitters have a rosy impression about safety that comes from the fact of legality ("if it's legal, it must be safe, otherwise Our Government wouldn't let us do it"), the supportive attitude of the motorcycling community, and a few overly simple rules. They will eventually get a reality check--hopefully, without crashing. It would be better if noobs learned early that it is dangerous and exactly where the risks are, and accepted sole responsibility for their own safety.
 
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I disagree with you when you say "uncommon speeds and deltas". I don't generally split over 45mph, and not at over a 10-15mph delta to traffic. That alone knocks out 7 out of 11 accidents. It's impossible to say if those riders were just violating the rules momentarily or made a habit of it, but I would say that these days I very rarely split at 45mph, and very rarely over 10mph, much less 15...and as small a change as that can be the difference between a close call and an accident. I'd personally say that 7 out of 11 were being reckless (within the bounds of the law), and that contributed to their accidents.

As a comparative...alcohol is a factor in, what, 40% of fatal accidents?
 
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As Z3n stated, take the Delta10mpg, traffic under 35mpg rule suggestions and you eliminate more than half of theses incidents.


lanes | mc speed | traf speed | description unknown | 48 | unknown | hit car that changed lanes in traffic slowing for another crash
1-2 | 18 | 15 | crashed under braking next to truck; fell under trailer
1-2 | 15 | 8 | hit truck; fell under trailer
unknown | 55 | 35 | split into slowing traffic, hit car, fell under big-rig trailer 1-2 | 63 | 38 | swerved into SUV that had changed lanes; fell under car
1-2 | unknown | 25 | attempting to split at "high speed", hit trailer
unknown | 33 | 33 | hit bus while splitting, fell under tires
1-2 | 30 | 5 | hit two-axle truck, fell under big rig in opposite lane
1-2 | 20 | unknown | hit big rig
unknown | 75 | unknown | swerved to avoid lane changer and fell 1-2 | 70 | 60 | split between truck and car; hit one, then the other, and fell
 
In a perfect world I would like to see a law defining lane sharing because it is a grey area and lives have been lost.

I would like to see lane sharing be legal up to the speed limit of the road. I would also like to see an educational campaign targeting all motorists including but not limited to motorcycles.

I would also like to see heavy enforcement of this law and stiff penalties that are heavy on the wallet and not a mark on your record. Lane sharing is dangerous but so is riding a motorcycle and it would be great to reduce the risk of asshatery on our streets.
 
As Z3n stated, take the Delta10mpg, traffic under 35mpg rule suggestions and you eliminate more than half of theses incidents.
I concur. There are five accidents where we know the rider was going more than 10mph faster than traffic, and/or breaking the speed limit. And there are those unknown that may violate these rules. Seems like we would go a long way to improve results with some basic rider responsibility.
 
As Z3n stated, take the Delta10mpg, traffic under 35mpg rule suggestions and you eliminate more than half of theses incidents.


lanes | mc speed | traf speed | description unknown | 48 | unknown | hit car that changed lanes in traffic slowing for another crash
1-2 | 18 | 15 | crashed under braking next to truck; fell under trailer
1-2 | 15 | 8 | hit truck; fell under trailer
unknown | 55 | 35 | split into slowing traffic, hit car, fell under big-rig trailer 1-2 | 63 | 38 | swerved into SUV that had changed lanes; fell under car
1-2 | unknown | 25 | attempting to split at "high speed", hit trailer
unknown | 33 | 33 | hit bus while splitting, fell under tires
1-2 | 30 | 5 | hit two-axle truck, fell under big rig in opposite lane
1-2 | 20 | unknown | hit big rig
unknown | 75 | unknown | swerved to avoid lane changer and fell 1-2 | 70 | 60 | split between truck and car; hit one, then the other, and fell

That is most interesting..

Creating the law will not stop asshats from being such, but it would give the LEO's a B/W interpretation to go by....and perhaps that would lead to fewer deaths, which is the goal of the State.

Taking a step back from our own personal feelings on the subject it could lead to fewer deaths and that is good. I hate to give up any freedom's on a moto as it seems one leads to another and another.

As a seasoned rider I feel I can negotiate the roads and share safely, but as pointed out a newbie rider may not have the experience to do so. Basic instincts of survival guide many, but some have those instincts buried and we see that all to often in our world of two wheels.

What a challenging issue. :wow
 
Damn guys... awesome stuff..:thumbup

Thanks for the great material links Masa!

The pole of non-riders was way cool too!

MCSFTGUY as well.

Great food for thought.

Ditto all that. Thank you good guys!!:):)


If the DMV ever goes for the educative Video idea, I hope that they give a company like 4THERIDERS the shot at Directing and Producing em. Costs would be realistic. They could be used at the MSF AND in driving academys and traffic schools- A HUGE market. They could evn MAKE money for the state safety commission if big car companies and corporations ran ads.
They won't need to hire stunt people, they can act in em all. No one would produce a better product. AND Toe can be the male lead. :thumbup
They could recruit Angelina Jolie types in good armor as female leads...you know the ones that sit on the back of the bikes?. :mrgreen:
I wouldn't mind sitting at the DMV for 4 hours if it meant watching cool moto vids or entertaining instructional vids. ;)
The DMV, driving schools and traffic schools would be fun for once. :cool: :thumbup
 
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That is most interesting..

Creating the law will not stop asshats from being such, but it would give the LEO's a B/W interpretation to go by....and perhaps that would lead to fewer deaths, which is the goal of the State.

Taking a step back from our own personal feelings on the subject it could lead to fewer deaths and that is good. I hate to give up any freedom's on a moto as it seems one leads to another and another.

As a seasoned rider I feel I can negotiate the roads and share safely, but as pointed out a newbie rider may not have the experience to do so. Basic instincts of survival guide many, but some have those instincts buried and we see that all to often in our world of two wheels.

What a challenging issue. :wow

How about a riding simulator that demonstrates/teaches proper lane sharing techniques and how to avoid collisions?
 
As Z3n stated, take the Delta10mpg, traffic under 35mpg rule suggestions and you eliminate more than half of theses incidents.


lanes | mc speed | traf speed | description unknown | 48 | unknown | hit car that changed lanes in traffic slowing for another crash
1-2 | 18 | 15 | crashed under braking next to truck; fell under trailer
1-2 | 15 | 8 | hit truck; fell under trailer
unknown | 55 | 35 | split into slowing traffic, hit car, fell under big-rig trailer 1-2 | 63 | 38 | swerved into SUV that had changed lanes; fell under car
1-2 | unknown | 25 | attempting to split at "high speed", hit trailer
unknown | 33 | 33 | hit bus while splitting, fell under tires
1-2 | 30 | 5 | hit two-axle truck, fell under big rig in opposite lane
1-2 | 20 | unknown | hit big rig
unknown | 75 | unknown | swerved to avoid lane changer and fell 1-2 | 70 | 60 | split between truck and car; hit one, then the other, and fell

The real problem is how do you apologize to all those motorists you've covered in gasoline? :laughing



Anyways, this is what it comes down to for me. Higher speed, especially in the split is what's dangerous.

I believe that clearly defining the legality of lane sharing is what's important here. I don't buy into the slippery slope argument that clearly defining the bounds of lanesharing will cause it to eventually get banned. I believe that being able to point at a clearly defined law will help us prove that lane sharing can be done safely. As it stands, someone bitches about someone splitting at high speed and I'm left with nothing but "well, it's only legal if it's done safely and prudently", whereas if the law was clearly defined, I could say "Yes, they were breaking the law, splitting at more than 45mph/over 10-15mph". And that goes a long ways when it comes to people.

Riding a motorcycle is dangerous, but there are certain restrictions we accept to help mitigate those dangers (see helmet laws), and the same argument that people have against helmet laws is that they slippery slope us into banning motorcycles entirely, which is absurd. Applying the same argument here is just as absurd, IMO, especially considering that the evidence directly contradicts what they claim...lane sharing has become (from the posts of people in this thread) less restricted over the years, not more.
 
I would be all for setting a definition of what is legal and what is not with regards to lane splitting.

However I think that we would become the "low hanging fruit" for selective enforcement. There are plenty of traffic laws that are there and not enforced. If I think about the attempts made on my life during the morning commute the root cause is on a cell phone or futzing with a gps nav, or banging so much deep bass my fillings rattle.

Those dangers would , presumeably, continue while the major advantages of two wheel travel would be snuffed out.
 
Anyways, this is what it comes down to for me. Higher speed, especially in the split is what's dangerous.

Again, speaking as someone who shares at high speed, the issue is delta, as well as the density and flow of traffic.

Not only do I feel safer lane sharing at 80 in moderate traffic than I do at 30 in dense traffic (both with a reasonable speed delta,) my safety history backs up that observation.
 
Sorry, by "in the split", I meant delta.

You might feel safer sharing at higher speeds, but safety isn't just about the individual act, it's also about the consequences should that act fail.

Finally, the plural of anecdote is not data. The data here indicates that higher speed is related to fatals (obviously) and lane sharing is a higher risk behavior. Your feel is nice, but people are notoriously shitty at self judging risk, especially personal risk. This is why it's advantageous to be able to look at the data.
 
How about a riding simulator that demonstrates/teaches proper lane sharing techniques and how to avoid collisions?
They exist. They are called video games. Only problem is quite unrealistically in simulations, one can die and come back again. costly too. Video production to visualize proper riding and lane splitting would be more cost effective and can be easily and cheaply distributed to all the driving agencies and schools.
 
They exist. They are called video games. Only problem is quite unrealistically in simulations, one can die and come back again. costly too. Video production to visualize proper riding and lane splitting would be more cost effective and can be easily and cheaply distributed to all the driving agencies and schools.

Not really... RoadRash 2K11. First of all, I know a dude who can pose on a bike for the cover shot of the game. He can pose WAY better than Toe. :p :smoking

Srsly, even as a game, simulate hazardous conditions. People on cell phones, putting on make-up,shaving, reading a book, unable to maintain lanes, changing lanes w/o signaling, beer cans hurled* and opening car doors just to screw with you. Think of Frogger, but moving with traffic.

Multiple levels;

-City traffic sharing up to a red light
-Hwy 24 and Hwy 13 in heavy commute traffic Friday night E/B
-W/B Bay Bridge and 101 in the AM whilst listening to Live105

:ride

* I have had two ducks (as in mallards) tossed at me near Lake Berryessa; Maybe v.2 of the game can include the redneck option
 
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