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Marchesini Wheels: What I noticed

It's really not so much the static weight differences between oem and aftermarket wheels, as to where that weight is placed. Take a good look at any stock wheel; you can almost look through the hub. Weight is mostly towards the outer rim, right where you don't want it. Aftermarket manufacturers move that weight inwards towards the axle, hence that's why your Marchesini's, Dymags, BST's, Galespeed's, etc. have comparatively "solid" hubs. It's all about MOI here, the less the better. ;)
 
when I inquired about pricing for Marchesinis for my 1000RR, I was told that the OEMs where already at least a pound and a half lighter than those sexy forged aluminums. he said that "If i don't mind dropping almost 2K for Starbux bling and nothing else", he's not gonna stop me.

:laughing You laughed in his face, right? :rofl
Tho teh Hundo does have the lightest OEM wheels, I seriously doubt they are even as light as the much stronger, more acurate and sexier aluminum Marchesinis.
The big thing tho, is spending all that dosh on the lightweight wheels(magnesium). For years, I thought, O that's nice but no way I'm gonna spend that much do ray me on that, when my wheels seem just fine. :rolleyes
Little did I know. The first time I rode a bike that was identical to mine, except for teh wheels(BSTs), I thought, FUCK! I got room on a credit card for that! It's like fuckin cheating! Literally. Oh, and the forged Marchesini mags are just as light as teh carbon fibres, yet much more durable and will definately last alot longer if you do alot of riding. :ride
 
The forged Marchesini mags are just as light as teh carbon fibres, yet much more durable and will definately last alot longer if you do alot of riding. :ride

I respectfully disagree. Figures from the Sportrider comparison test:

Blackstone Tek (BST)

Weight: front: 5.50 lbs.; rear: 10.38 lbs.
Moment of Inertia: front: 217 lb. in2; rear: 304 lb. in2

Marchesini forged aluminum

Weight: front: 8.82 lbs.; rear: 13.80 lbs.
Moment of Inertia: front: 362 lb. in2; rear: 496 lb. in2

Marchesini forged magnesium

Weight: front: 6.54 lbs.; rear: 11.12 lbs.
Moment of Inertia: front: 276 lb. in2; rear: 373 lb. in2

Doug (of former Wall fame) has run the same set of BST's on at least two GSXR1000's for several years, with zero issues. The Marchi forged aluminums are probably as durable; magnesium is a crapshoot on the poor excuse for paving here in the Bay Area.
 
Touche!
However, it should be duly noted that teh BSTs in that comparo were the "race-only" ones(they make "street" wheels too) that you'd be lucky to get more than one full season out of(racin) because they WILL break the first time that bike gets flopped around much in even a lowside crash. Also, every single person I have ever known(6-7) that does alot of canyon riding(no rollin around like a little old lady) and puts more than 10K(no commuting) miles a year on their carbon fibre wheels has had a crack or leak. The(forged) mags are vastly more durable and are easily straightened should they get any tweaks. But what the hay, it's only money. :teeth
 
*raises hand*

50,000 miles on the '06 G1K. I'd say that 80% of that was commuting. :ride:p

Wait Hooli, I said practical transportation, not FUN transportation :laughing

Although I have to admit that because sometimes its only the fun of the commute on the bike that could get me to actually WANT to get up in the morning to go to work was pretty damn practical! :)
 
oh he's not inept. trust me. the guy knows his shit.

Oh wait, I thought the person that was giving you reasons not to buy them was the same person trying to sell them to you! :)

I have no doubt that he was knowledgeable, I just thought it was strange IF he was selling them that he would purposely sabotage a big sale... Like a Porsche salesman telling you that a Toyota made better sense :)
 
Touche!
However, it should be duly noted that teh BSTs in that comparo were the "race-only" ones(they make "street" wheels too) that you'd be lucky to get more than one full season out of(racin) because they WILL break the first time that bike gets flopped around much in even a lowside crash. Also, every single person I have ever known(6-7) that does alot of canyon riding(no rollin around like a little old lady) and puts more than 10K(no commuting) miles a year on their carbon fibre wheels has had a crack or leak. The(forged) mags are vastly more durable and are easily straightened should they get any tweaks. But what the hay, it's only money. :teeth

I wouldn't say forged mags are "vastly more durable." :eboy The only difference between BST's "street" and "race" wheels, are that the latter have magnesium hubs instead of aluminum. I've seen a trackbike that took a long hard tumble into the desert wastelands that surround Willow Springs. The BST's were just scratched up a little but were intact. On the other hand, the front magnesium wheel on a buddy's R1 got a really bad ding in the lip on a Berryessa run, good thing that it retained air. At least mag rims can have minor damage pressed out, but the operator better know what he's doing. I don't know how many miles Doug has on his set of BST's but I bet it's way more than 10,000. :p
 
What you talk about is probably why the further refinements to the design appeal to me I think :)

I thought that design modifications to make a bike more lethal as a track weapon was supposed to be the road to success for a sportbike, not a liability :)

Anyhow... I think I would have fun on both bikes, and I would just be more careful on the first gen :)


This " a better track weapon=better street use (and I'm including, even emphasising the knarlist conditions the street offers up) is a fallacy.

If it clarifies my opinion, I take the highest performance/most easily altered to the street package bike that is for sale at the time I'm shopping. Then I make the alterations to get the suspension and riding stance, and luggage on that highest performance bike, so i can max appreciate it where I ride it.

What has been developed from racing, is Golden, for the most part. That's where the light, trim, stable, super suspended, reliable, controled bikes came from, and the race replica's sold in volumes, to allow the price to the customer to be the bargain of a lifetime.

For some un-explainable reason, street use bikers, fail to grasp the difference between the closed course race track and the street.

Throttle (use of power) is entirely different on the closed course track that is both a surface that is designed and maintained for racing safely and everyone is going the same direction and got a racing license to be there.

What works best on the public street/road/highway, and what works best on the track....is two different things.

The sooner a bike rider grasps that, and the finer parts of the skills that relate to surviving on the street...the higher the odds are that the bike rider will ride safe and sound, for their whole bike riding life.

Back to the characteristics of the First Gen ZX-10's (and this will greatly depend on how the rider uses it) The bike is exacty the type that works best for me, in the tight/steep twisties. Like an open class dirt bike on steroids.

Here is an account of my ride over Ebbetts pass yesterday. I'm not a skilled writer, so ... I know I won't paint the picture, as clear as a rider being there, but here goes.

Hwy 4 is very clean now, the spots with fallen rocks and gravel washed over the road with the massive runoffs crossing the road are very few and no problen to deal with.

The Water over the road starts in spots, at Lake Alpine, and the biggest thing is being super cautious when approaching a blind corner, because when the water comes into view there, the far side is still in the blind end of the corner, and you don't know how far it is going to continue, or just how sharp the corner will get. No place to do additional braking.

There were other spots that became shallow ponds where water filled dips (whole wideth of the road) but none were above the axle and they were all in straight road spots, so no biggie, just go slow to keep the the wake and splash from being more of a problem.

One really fun spot, was where Cal-Trans was dong something, road work wise. Instead of the usual stop traffic (not like there is traffic but some word must be used for someone using the road) then letting traffic go in alternate dirctions...they directed the road users to go over the bank (not much of a bank at all), into and through the trees, for about 3/4ths a city block length, and then back onto the road.

I was the only Race replica Sport bike up there. And The conversion I did to mine, with flat tracker bend handle bars, Scotts Damper, and Race Tech conversion front and back, to Shim stacks/Gold valves more akin to off road bikes, and my removed lower plastic, all was in it's glory at that moment.

By glory, that glory isn't confined to events like that, The glory extends to every moment or event in the ride. No computer management, I'm calling the shots, on the controls :thumbup :ride
 
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This seems like a good time to address the correct way to pronounce Marchesini:

mar - ka - see - knee

[/pet peeve]
 
What works best on the public street/road/highway, and what works best on the track....is two different things.

The sooner a bike rider grasps that, and the finer parts of the skills that relate to surviving on the street...the higher the odds are that the bike rider will ride safe and sound, for their whole bike riding life.


I was the only Race replica Sport bike up there. And The conversion I did to mine, with flat tracker bend handle bars, Scotts Damper, and Race Tech conversion front and back, to Shim stacks/Gold valves more akin to off road bikes, and my removed lower plastic, all was in it's glory at that moment.







:zzz

Ohh excuse me dozed off. Ok trackbikes shouldn't be ridden on the street, they're no good for that. Mine's too stiff, also no lights or license or anything


Uh yeah, because track riders have never spent ANY time on the street or yuh Ebbet's. Also the controls on the bike is totally different, something like GP shift or something. Hell, I never remember if I is stereetin' or trackin' sometimes I do a few laps through my cul de sac and I have dragged knee through the begonias. Yeah stay away from the track, the improvements in bike control that you will notice immediately will make you forget how to ride the street. And you wont be able to help yourself, you'll be whaling over the DY in blind turns and will tight apex into a truck unless your bike's equipped with the right handlebars. In fact, I think track riders are MMUUCHH worse street riders and crash everywhere.

Also y'all know race reptlica shouldn't have clipons, they too uncomfortable yo, and they don't work. Ya just can't get them to turn. Maybe y'all didn't know that. What works best on te street isn't a street bike either. Not an SV, not a Vstrom, Not an HD, nor an FZ1 or motard. The best streetbike is a race replica with handlebars and a Racetech suspension. Nothing else will do.

And if you didn't notice how horrible your sportbike is for street use, someone on BARF is gonna tell you how to fixit. Never mind if you like the way it looks, and handles and don't think the clipons are bad. You even like to ride it just the way it is. Nevermind. Gotta fixit.

Don't even get me started on cars, they're no good for the mountains, gotta have an SUV. And forget about pit bulls, Dandie Dinmont Terriers are the dog for you.
 
Even though it's suggested that the magnesium Marches not be used on the street, it seems like everyone that has them and rides them on the street says they are plenty strong enough, but for me, the aluminum was plenty :)

The front wheel is 3 lbs lighter than stock, actually maybe only 2 lbs lighter because it has the Galfer superbike rotors that came with the wheels and they are 1lb lighter than stock rotors, and the rear is about 3 1/2 lbs lighter.

I like to do everything I reasonably can to make the bike feel more nimble, it already has power galore!


OK...granted the weight loss isn't as much as the weight loss Sport Rider Mag is refering to in their latest issue, trick shit. But...they mounted Carbon fiber wheels and Carbon Matrix brake rotors to their ZX-10. And that loss of gyroscopic wheel stabilization allowed for massive head shake with that sorry ass stock (OEM) Ohlins damper, and even cranking it up to the max, didn't take the shake out.

Moral to the story, sent that piece of crap to Kyle Racing, so he can replace the valve, with one that stands a fighting chance, or put a Scotts on. so there isn't another Pheanor phuck up story down the line.
 
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:zzz

Ohh excuse me dozed off.

Yeah stay away from the track, the improvements in bike control that you will notice immediately will make you forget how to ride the street. And you wont be able to help yourself, you'll be whaling over the DY in blind turns and will tight apex into a truck unless your bike's equipped with the right handlebars. In fact, I think track riders are MMUUCHH worse street riders and crash everywhere.

The best streetbike is a race replica with handlebars and a Racetech suspension. Nothing else will do.


Humm, Short attention span, Attention Defecate Disorder, combined with Delusional or ADDD...That explains quite a lot. :rofl
 
Humm, Short attention span, Attention Defecate Disorder, combined with Delusional or ADDD...That explains quite a lot. :rofl

There you go again LOU, somebody disagrees with you and you attack them. But name calling doesn't really mean anything at all does it. Some very good riders have disagreed with you and you even call them out. Seriously, aside from being 70 years old, why should any body give a shit what you think or what you ride? Lots of 70 year old cruiser riders would think you are delusional, what expertise does your age confer? What exactly are your qualifications of expertise? Lots of people on this board "raced dirt" and don't find it necessary to tell everyone else what to ride. And don't have to turn a sportbike into something else to enjoy it. Ride your ride dude and BELIEVE me everyone knows about the bars and the racetech and all. Just because somebody doesn't want to modify their ride your way is not a judgement on their intelligence, riding skills or their mental health.

Besides you don't know me, never met me unless it was in my professional role. Why would you say I have ADD?:dunno
 
This " a better track weapon=better street use (and I'm including, even emphasising the knarlist conditions the street offers up) is a fallacy.

If it clarifies my opinion, I take the highest performance/most easily altered to the street package bike that is for sale at the time I'm shopping. Then I make the alterations to get the suspension and riding stance, and luggage on that highest performance bike, so i can max appreciate it where I ride it.

What has been developed from racing, is Golden, for the most part. That's where the light, trim, stable, super suspended, reliable, controled bikes came from, and the race replica's sold in volumes, to allow the price to the customer to be the bargain of a lifetime.

For some un-explainable reason, street use bikers, fail to grasp the difference between the closed course race track and the street.

Throttle (use of power) is entirely different on the closed course track that is both a surface that is designed and maintained for racing safely and everyone is going the same direction and got a racing license to be there.

What works best on the public street/road/highway, and what works best on the track....is two different things.

The sooner a bike rider grasps that, and the finer parts of the skills that relate to surviving on the street...the higher the odds are that the bike rider will ride safe and sound, for their whole bike riding life.

Back to the characteristics of the First Gen ZX-10's (and this will greatly depend on how the rider uses it) The bike is exacty the type that works best for me, in the tight/steep twisties. Like an open class dirt bike on steroids.

Here is an account of my ride over Ebbetts pass yesterday. I'm not a skilled writer, so ... I know I won't paint the picture, as clear as a rider being there, but here goes.

Hwy 4 is very clean now, the spots with fallen rocks and gravel washed over the road with the massive runoffs crossing the road are very few and no problen to deal with.

The Water over the road starts in spots, at Lake Alpine, and the biggest thing is being super cautious when approaching a blind corner, because when the water comes into view there, the far side is still in the blind end of the corner, and you don't know how far it is going to continue, or just how sharp the corner will get. No place to do additional braking.

There were other spots that became shallow ponds where water filled dips (whole wideth of the road) but none were above the axle and they were all in straight road spots, so no biggie, just go slow to keep the the wake and splash from being more of a problem.

One really fun spot, was where Cal-Trans was dong something, road work wise. Instead of the usual stop traffic (not like there is traffic but some word must be used for someone using the road) then letting traffic go in alternate dirctions...they directed the road users to go over the bank (not much of a bank at all), into and through the trees, for about 3/4ths a city block length, and then back onto the road.

I was the only Race replica Sport bike up there. And The conversion I did to mine, with flat tracker bend handle bars, Scotts Damper, and Race Tech conversion front and back, to Shim stacks/Gold valves more akin to off road bikes, and my removed lower plastic, all was in it's glory at that moment.

By glory, that glory isn't confined to events like that, The glory extends to every moment or event in the ride. No computer management, I'm calling the shots, on the controls :thumbup :ride

That's fascinating reading! And I have to admit there is a very visceral attraction to a motorcycle that is "pure" probably in much the same way that you might compare a learjet that flies itself and a Redbull Air racer that uses gimbals and wires attached to a control yoke :)

My thinking as far as how the track considerations apply to a sportbike ridden on the street is more one of "residual" benefits then outright optimal choice.

On the track, the brakes are engineered to be efficient, powerful, durable, and reliable, and I think this sees its advantage on the street with brakes that require only two and often one finger effort and modulate with incredible smoothness...

Suspension is tuned and designed on a track bike to be compliant and to avoid things like excessive brake dive, and also to be precise thru stiffness and strength. On the street, you never ride the speeds they do on the track, but 85 mph on 101 probably feels exactly like the Straight at Brands Hatch at 185. I think tracks are made to be incredibly smooth because the speeds that they are ridden at Perhaps telemetry would show a Racebike ridden on a public road at 60 had the same deflection and motions as one going 200 down a front straight. Of course this is not a direct correlation, but I think one that shows benefits on the street due to the trickle down effect of the technology and design :)

As far as motors are concerned... anything that makes the motor resistant to failure at 14,000rpm can have nothing but positive effects for reliability when the motor is streeted :)

As far as the racing position is concerned, that is where you completely have me. Nowhere on the street is it required to tuck down under the screen to get that extra .1 of a second a lap, and that part of it is well, just "fun" :) And in a strange irony, the clip-ons and racing position on a sportbike is actually more comfortable for me because of my back injury and the fact that an upright position transmits more shock of the road straight up my back and can be very painful at times. Leaning forward put more of a transverse load on my back and is far more comfortable.

I don't know, I just think about advantages for the street of racing technology and there seem (to me) to be far more benefits than otherwise... Lighter stronger wheels that help reduce the time it takes to manuever the bike to avoid debris on the road, Stellar brakes that stop the bike in the shortest distance possible, Motors that scream all day long reliably, Materials and engineering that make structures lighter, stiffer, and stronger, tire compounds that stick to the road like glue, etc etc...

Practicality will always be a concern and will always be a debateable point when it comes to riding your liter hypersport bike on the street, but every bike is a compromise of some sort and I think it's a wonderful situation that we not only have many to choose from, but can change each one to something that suits an individual even better.

I actually loved the experience of riding a Ninja 250 in the very tight twisties. I felt like I was going significantly faster on that, than I ever have on a 600 or 1000, and I probably was! :laughing. A friend once told me, its more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than it is to ride a fast bike, slow :)
 
That's fascinating reading! And I have to admit there is a very visceral attraction to a motorcycle that is "pure" probably in much the same way that you might compare a learjet that flies itself and a Redbull Air racer that uses gimbals and wires attached to a control yoke :)

My thinking as far as how the track considerations apply to a sportbike ridden on the street is more one of "residual" benefits then outright optimal choice.

On the track, the brakes are engineered to be efficient, powerful, durable, and reliable, and I think this sees its advantage on the street with brakes that require only two and often one finger effort and modulate with incredible smoothness...

Suspension is tuned and designed on a track bike to be compliant and to avoid things like excessive brake dive, and also to be precise thru stiffness and strength. On the street, you never ride the speeds they do on the track, but 85 mph on 101 probably feels exactly like the Straight at Brands Hatch at 185. I think tracks are made to be incredibly smooth because the speeds that they are ridden at Perhaps telemetry would show a Racebike ridden on a public road at 60 had the same deflection and motions as one going 200 down a front straight. Of course this is not a direct correlation, but I think one that shows benefits on the street due to the trickle down effect of the technology and design :)

As far as motors are concerned... anything that makes the motor resistant to failure at 14,000rpm can have nothing but positive effects for reliability when the motor is streeted :)

As far as the racing position is concerned, that is where you completely have me. Nowhere on the street is it required to tuck down under the screen to get that extra .1 of a second a lap, and that part of it is well, just "fun" :) And in a strange irony, the clip-ons and racing position on a sportbike is actually more comfortable for me because of my back injury and the fact that an upright position transmits more shock of the road straight up my back and can be very painful at times. Leaning forward put more of a transverse load on my back and is far more comfortable.

I don't know, I just think about advantages for the street of racing technology and there seem (to me) to be far more benefits than otherwise... Lighter stronger wheels that help reduce the time it takes to manuever the bike to avoid debris on the road, Stellar brakes that stop the bike in the shortest distance possible, Motors that scream all day long reliably, Materials and engineering that make structures lighter, stiffer, and stronger, tire compounds that stick to the road like glue, etc etc...

Practicality will always be a concern and will always be a debateable point when it comes to riding your liter hypersport bike on the street, but every bike is a compromise of some sort and I think it's a wonderful situation that we not only have many to choose from, but can change each one to something that suits an individual even better.

I actually loved the experience of riding a Ninja 250 in the very tight twisties. I felt like I was going significantly faster on that, than I ever have on a 600 or 1000, and I probably was! :laughing. A friend once told me, its more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than it is to ride a fast bike, slow :)


That's all very valid. I will just mention...Shock up your Back? Oh no, when the suspension is working, it does it's job. If the surface is rougher than the suspension alone is an issue (and you can see that before the hit, there is no excuse for hitting something by surprise) you raise your ass off the seat (remember your sitting very close to the stance of a dirt bike rider). And add your legs to the suspension.

The Ninja 250...Umm, ride one from the Bay Area to the Sierra and cross a couple of passes (Sonora pass and Ebbetts pass are especially good), and back to the Bay Area then say a 250 is something to love.

The liter race replica is versital to the max, toss a little luggage on, and go Far Far Far, where the OMG this open wilderness is Awesome lives.

Oh one more thing, about that windshield...I painted tihe inside surface of mine, and...the real jump out and like the main result is...that puts my instrument cluster in the shade, I can read it now. When the Sun (or just bright light) hit it before, I couldn't read it worth a damn (some years were better than mine, in readablity).
 
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That's all very valid. I will just mention...Shock up your Back? Oh no, when the suspension is working, it does it's job. If the surface is rougher than the suspension alone is an issue (and you can see that before the hit, there is no excuse for hitting something by surprise) you raise your ass off the seat (remember your sitting very close to the stance of a dirt bike rider). And add your legs to the suspension.

The Ninja 250...Umm, ride one from the Bay Area to the Sierra and cross a couple of passes (Sonora pass and Ebbetts pass are especially good), and back to the Bay Area then say a 250 is something to love.

The liter race replica is versital to the max, toss a little luggage on, and go Far Far Far, where the OMG this open wilderness is Awesome lives.

:)

As far as my back, its not the performance of the shock, but the position I am in while riding actually... On a standard, even one with really plush suspension, when I hit a bump in the road, the force goes straight up my spine to my head since I am riding upright, like jumping off a ledge and landing square and straight on your feet with no bend... ouch! Instead of jumping off and landing on bent knees and head forward so the shock comes up your legs and raises your butt in the air a little and transfers the shock almost away from your spine rather than thru it...

My doctor says, like hitting a nail on the head and driving it into the wood as opposed to knocking it to the side, one is better of course for driving nails, but the other results in much less shock load and vibration :)

Isn't that the greatest feeling to just ride in some random direction and end up in some pastoral scene somewhere on your own? It's one of the reasons I got into motorcycling. I love the feeling of riding through the landscape instead of what I feel in a car which is riding past it...
 
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