McCain and the Economy

[Charmed]

Not suprising, but definately illegal.

Do you espouse or embrace this behavior from our public servants?

So the only political contributors are neutral parties? People with no opinion or vested interest in anything? This is how the American (and many other) government works, and I stress works. Its far from perfect, but it does work pretty well.

I embrace it because to do so is to embrace capitalism, and capitalism works.

 

[insyder]

Mods, yet another thread for the Politics Forum.

KTHXBYE!

 

[gogounited]

So the only political contributors are neutral parties? People with no opinion or vested interest in anything? This is how the American (and many other) government works, and I stress works. Its far from perfect, but it does work pretty well.

I embrace it because to do so is to embrace capitalism, and capitalism works.

The rampant abuse of the system by lobbysits and public servants is vastly contributing to the downfall and decline of our democracy.

To embrace the corruption of a system, indeed, to even precipitate and expect such corruption to continue to manifest itself within a democratic capitalist society, is to embrace the inevitable decline of such a society.

Capitalism must grow in order to continue to exist. It needs to be in a state of continual growth, and if it were to get too big, even for it's own skin, this growth will be stunted by direct effect such corruption plays upon the consumers who are the fuel for the capitalist machine. The weakness in capitalism, the belly of the beast, so to speak, is that if it is not in a continual state of growth, it collapses in upon itself, it fails to work.

Corporate greed and corruption as well as lobbyst palming within our government might seem to be healthy for the time being, but as with most self-sustaining systems, there is a critical mass that can and will be reached, at which point capitalism begins to fail. The consumer can no longer spend, and the machine comes grinding to a painful and abrupt halt.

By espousing this corruption as something you would like to believe as good for our capitalist nation, you are tolerating, condoning, and even helping our system to inevitably fail. Many Americans, I believe, do this through their apathy toward government and it's role in society. They choose to ignore effects of pubilc policy which plays a significant role in their everyday lives. These people too are contributing to the critical mass, to the tidal verge of overkill by their inertia.

Embracing capitalism is a good thing. But ask yourself WHY and HOW it works, before espousing a stance that through direct action, or an indirect tolerance, promotes an eventual decline of working capitalism.

 

[Charmed]

The mere fact that it took you 6 paragraphs to say that little is amusing to me

This rambling is a perfect example of how being verbose does NOT equate to being informed, educated or intelligent. However, given your reasonable vocabulary and usage, I'm still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt

You want utopia, and so do I. You label these practices of political support as corrupt, and many like myself don't. I view it as part of the way our government has always gotten things done. A little horse trading. Yes, it gets in its own way from time to time, but when we're in times of a healthy and growing economy, its a reasonable trade-off.

People will always do what's in their best interest, and humans will likely be this way until the sun burns the life off the planet.

 

[jdhu]

The mere fact that it took you 6 paragraphs to say that little is amusing to me

This rambling is a perfect example of how being verbose does NOT equate to being informed, educated or intelligent. However, given your reasonable vocabulary and usage, I'm still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt

You want utopia, and so do I. You label these practices of political support as corrupt, and many like myself don't. I view it as part of the way our government has always gotten things done. A little horse trading. Yes, it gets in its own way from time to time, but when we're in times of a healthy and growing economy, its a reasonable trade-off.

People will always do what's in their best interest, and humans will likely be this way until the sun burns the life off the planet.

Hahaha...seriously. Seems like a cut/paste job from a Lyndon LaRouche pamphlet.

 

[gogounited]

The mere fact that it took you 6 paragraphs to say that little is amusing to me

This rambling is a perfect example of how being verbose does NOT equate to being informed, educated or intelligent. However, given your reasonable vocabulary and usage, I'm still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt

You want utopia, and so do I. You label these practices of political support as corrupt, and many like myself don't. I view it as part of the way our government has always gotten things done. A little horse trading. Yes, it gets in its own way from time to time, but when we're in times of a healthy and growing economy, its a reasonable trade-off.

People will always do what's in their best interest, and humans will likely be this way until the sun burns the life off the planet.

The purpose of my post was not to incite your opinion about whether I am well-spoken, educated, intelligent and/or informed.

I mentioned nothing about a utopia, but it's nice to know that you want one, I guess. And while you may feel that corrupt practices within our government are a good thing, I still maintain that moderation will make all the difference between whether it is actually good or not for our capitalist society. Again, I caution those who support this corruption as a necessary and productive means of getting things done in Washington, and to consider the reprecussions should it get out of hand.

One sure-fire way for it to get out of hand, is for it to go completely unchecked, and allowed to run rampant, because some ignorant, albeit, good-intentioned peoples, advocated such practices due to their misguided belief that it's good for capitalsm.

 

[plumber]

One sure-fire way for it to get out of hand, is for it to go completely unchecked, and allowed to run rampant, because some ignorant, albeit, good-intentioned peoples, advocated such practices due to their misguided belief that it's good for capitalsm.

You are 100% correct. The average American is too quick to dismiss the lunatic fringe.

 

[mlm]

Holy shit this crap is laughable. I suppose the fact we've had a massive trade deficeit and China kept their currency pegged to the dollar was just a minor cause of the recessions we're in?

There are valid criticisms to be made, but this is complete bullshit, no better than the crap the OP always complains about from the right wing media.

 

[gogounited]

So, would you say the cost of the Iraq war is also a "minor" contribution to the state of our present-day economy?

 

[mlm]

So, would you say the cost of the Iraq war is also a "minor" contribution to the state of our present-day economy?

Of course it had SOME effect, but I'd say we've been on a path to this recession for quite some time. Bush and Iraq didn't cause our thrist for oil, the housing bubble, or our trade deficeit.

I don't think you get it. You have zero expectation for intelligent debate after dropping a giant turd like you did (your OP).

 

[Climber]

Of course it had SOME effect, but I'd say we've been on a path to this recession for quite some time. Bush and Iraq didn't cause our thrist for oil, the housing bubble, or our trade deficeit.

Why of course!!! This is all Bill Clinton's fault and a direct result of all of his policies and decisions and Bush is just the innocent inheritor of all of Bill Clinton's fuck-ups!!

 

[Holeshot]

mlm didn't post the blame to Clinton, nor Bush. As it shouldn't be...there's quite a bit of other influences.

 

[gogounited]

Of course it had SOME effect, but I'd say we've been on a path to this recession for quite some time. Bush and Iraq didn't cause our thrist for oil, the housing bubble, or our trade deficeit.

I don't think you get it. You have zero expectation for intelligent debate after dropping a giant turd like you did (your OP).

Please don't allude to my expectations, it's presumptuous at best.

The housing bubble, as you said, has some bearing upon our present-day economic sickness. My purpose in the post was to point out those whom John McCain has recruited to be his advisors on the economy, and how a subsequent McCain administration may effect our economy.

One advisor, Mr. Phil Gramm, whom as mentioned in my OP has direct ties to the company which is seen as having played a large role in the sub-prime mortgage fallout, is one of those people whom McCain has recruited to advise him economically. This concerns me.

Bush's tax cuts IMO, have contributed in a large part to our national deficit, alongside the war. Since McCain advocates both the tax cuts and the war, this is also of concern to me, just as it is of concern Mr. Douglas Holtz-Eakin, McCain's top economical advisor.

As for Miss Fiorina, it's obvious you disagree with her about the cost of the Iraq war and it's effect on our ecomony. She claims, as the OP stated, that it doesn't have an effect on the economy. You admit that it does. Obviously, I think it does. In fact, as stated in the OP, 9 out of 10 Americans believe that is HAS had an effect on our economy. Therefore, it is a concern for me that this individual is someone McCain sees fit as an economical advisor.

What I don't get is why you don't get it that this information seems relevant to concerns that others may share about McCain, his advisors, and the economy.

 

[mlm]

Fiorina Said Iraq War Had Nothing To Do With Current Economic Crisis. During an Appearance on the Joe Scarborough Show, Fiorina suggest the war in Iraq had nothing to do with our current economic crisis. “There’s no question that the Iraq War is costing us a lot of money,” Fiorina replied. “But it’s also the case that the housing crisis has nothing to do with the Iraq War. High fuel prices have nothing to do with the Iraq War, per se. And high food prices, in particular, have nothing to do with the Iraq War. ... It’s not fair ... to try and make the Iraq War the cause of our current economic difficulties.” [MSNBC, Morning Joe, 4/7/08]

Gogo. Try looking at what Fiorina actually said (in bold). You seem to attribute the summary of what she said (which I think is inaccurate BTW) as her actual words. I think what she said is absolutely correct.

Something you fail to take into account regarding the true "cost" of Iraq is how much money actually goes back into our own economy. Not defending companies like Halliburton, etc...but the reality is that a good chunk of every dollar "spent" on the war stays within the US economy and keeps americans employed.


As for Mr. Gramm. Ironically he helped champion some significant spending reforms while in the senate. The fact he now works for a large bank after being on the banking commitee is far from surprising. I think you'll actually find it is quite common. Yes there are some ethical questions, but it does not mean anything in and of itself.

 

[Gragorin]

Hmm, him hiring her is a huge negative in my book..