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Mid-Engine Corvette spy shots

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Gonna take a little while to get used to those roof-fenders spoilers, but if it performs, it performs.

Good on Ford!
 
Charles R said:
The LS series is easier to make cheap power than a classic SBC, up to a point. Beyond that, the big power number guys go to BBC's.

The key to remember here is that most LS engines are starting at a stock OEM HP number that the SBC guys are building up to. And stock LS heads flow numbers that only decent aftermarket SBC heads can even think of touching. The SBC was designed about 60 years ago. It was a great design, no doubt, but it was never designed to truly handle the same stress levels and power numbers that is accounted for in the latest designs.

But the aftermarket has had a long time to play with the SBC's, so while I know the aftermarket power numbers are basically even between the two, you'll always have a few extra steps to reach those ponies with the older generation of engine. And from a design standpoint, the modern engine will "live" with those higher power numbers easier.

For example...

The 69 Camaro of 'Life's Good Racing!' had a classic SBC (albeit, a Donovan aluminum block) and ran about 550hp when fresh and healthy. That engine lost about 60 hp per year between 'refreshes' that required new valve springs and a number of close inspection steps. With no other failure, this meant that running the classic engine cost about $3500.00 a year. (an ARP rod bolt failure finally sent this engine to the grave.)
By contrast, the LS engine that it runs now has, at 623hp, a lower maintenance rate, and less power loss. (I don't know the exact numbers because I no longer work there, this info is from the new crew chief that took over my job)

Another way to look at it, is to think about my poor Karmann Ghia engine. At 2300 cc's and 220-ish hp, it seems quite pathetic... But... it's actually making 5 TIMES the power it was originally designed for. Sure it can do it...for short periods of time... but it requires far more attention than if I just slapped some 2.2 liter modern thing that makes the exact same power straight from the factory in there.

I'll always have a soft spot for the classic.... But I have to tip my hat to the modern
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Where you guys are missing each other is on what each one of you consider fast. I agree with you on the cheap power thing, biggest improvement being the valve angle on the ls series motors and some valve train improvements including the better rocker ratio, not sharing exhaust ports is nice too. The 10 head studs is really it's down fall, think they fixed that with the ls7 but those sure as shit ain't cheap. That being said, 72sbc doesn't care about 500 horse power :laughing . Once you start taking big power it's still probably cheaper to build a gen 1 sbc. At that point you're pretty much changing everything anyway, the performance benefits quickly disappear and the aftermarket for the gen 1 motor is still way more plentiful, however the ls series has come along way since 97. Like i said, 4.4" bore spaced 90 degree v8.
 
Nick said:
Guys are cramming Coyote motors into fox body Mustangs. They're actually relatively compact. Wikipedia says its roughly the same size as the old 4.6L modular.
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Yeah, they're pretty compact, and no question the DOHC allows you to do more with the curve for a given displacement than pushrods, but I'd still bet the LS is shorter. Put another way, would you rather use the clearance to the hood for more valvetrain or more stroke? The additional stroke will get you more torque, power, and weighs almost nothing.

I'd probably never make the same argument in motorcycles because height doesn't have as much tradeoff on a moto.
 
Reli said:
LOL, that Acura looks boring.......almost a blatant R8 ripoff

The Ford's rear end is decent....But the front grill opening is like a catfish
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Or it is shaped lie it needs to be, to be effective in that space.

Could be you don't know a lot about race car design.
 
Reli said:
LOL, that Acura looks boring.......almost a blatant R8 ripoff

The Ford's rear end is decent....But the front grill opening is like a catfish
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That trapeziodal opening is common to many Ford vehicles these days:

2015-Ford-focus.jpg


03-2015-ford-mustang-1.jpg


2015-Ford-Fiesta-Pictrures.png


2015_ford_escape-pic-7038879018880432980.jpeg


2015_ford_explorer_angularfront.jpg
 
Reli said:
Disappointingly so.
It's a blatant ripoff of Aston Martin. Especially on the Fusion -- ugh, that car has become a cartoon. I'd actually rather have the older one.
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IIRC, it's the same designer. Same dude. Were Ford and Aston sleeping together at the time? I cannot remember.
 
Enchanter said:
IIRC, it's the same designer. Same dude. Were Ford and Aston sleeping together at the time? I cannot remember.
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Yes, at the time Ford owned Aston, Jag, Land Rover, Volvo, & Lincoln (Mercury, too), as part of their "Premier Auto Group", which grouped their previously acquired companies in one division from 1999 to 2007/8, when Volvo was the last to be sold off...
 
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JesasaurusRex said:
Where you guys are missing each other is on what each one of you consider fast. I agree with you on the cheap power thing, biggest improvement being the valve angle on the ls series motors and some valve train improvements including the better rocker ratio, not sharing exhaust ports is nice too. The 10 head studs is really it's down fall, think they fixed that with the ls7 but those sure as shit ain't cheap. That being said, 72sbc doesn't care about 500 horse power :laughing . Once you start taking big power it's still probably cheaper to build a gen 1 sbc. At that point you're pretty much changing everything anyway, the performance benefits quickly disappear and the aftermarket for the gen 1 motor is still way more plentiful, however the ls series has come along way since 97. Like i said, 4.4" bore spaced 90 degree v8.
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Ask me how I know a 500hp Sbc is faster than a 427 600hp LSx motor...

Or how a 500hp sbc is faster than 402ci procharged z06 :laughing

I'll have to show you some goodies I got for the Bu later, I havent seen you in a while.


Now for my point,

Put equal heads on a gen one and it will make more power. 18 degree gen one vs a 18 degree ls. IF Ls motors were the end all be all, Nascar would run them, prostock would run them, sprint cars would run them and everyone would run them in compretive racing but, they dont........ Best Small block in history is the SBF. 1200 hp N/A under 400ci. Aussie prostock , they know whats up.
 
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72SBC said:
Ask me how I know a 500hp Sbc is faster than a 427 600hp LSx motor...

Or how a 500hp sbc is faster than 402ci procharged z06 :laughing

I'll have to show you some goodies I got for the Bu later, I havent seen you in a while.


Now for my point,

Put equal heads on a gen one and it will make more power. 18 degree gen one vs a 18 degree ls. IF Ls motors were the end all be all, Nascar would run them, prostock would run them, sprint cars would run them and everyone would run them in compretive racing but, they dont........ Best Small block in history is the SBF. 1200 hp N/A under 400ci. Aussie prostock , they know whats up.
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Who has the nova now? Hows Dom been doing?
Thought LS started at 15 degree.
I donno man, there's some fast LS shit, but for every 1 fast one there's 50 "slow" ones, that's true . I think most those people just throw shit together though and then don't understand why it doesn't work. On paper they should really be no different once you start going aftermarket.
 
JesasaurusRex said:
Who has the nova now? Hows Dom been doing?
Thought LS started at 15 degree.
I donno man, there's some fast LS shit, but for every 1 fast one there's 50 "slow" ones, that's true . I think most those people just throw shit together though and then don't understand why it doesn't work. On paper they should really be no different once you start going aftermarket.
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Nova sold to Gil as a roller, then where it is now, who knows. I'm sure I'll see it on youtube.
 
Enchanter said:
But he is referring to the old one. The old one was a nice car. A very nice car, but was never a great car, nor was it exotic. Shit, it wasn't really fast either.
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Dude they were freaking SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW :rofl
Exotic they are not. Different, yes. Lol





Guyzz.. aren't the LS motors still pushrod? :laughing :later
 
That new GT40 is fucking beautiful.

and a 3.5 twin turbo v6 with 600hp. jesus.
 
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