But no, wanting to undo technological breakthroughs of the past 40 years won't help anything when the sucky world economy is the obvious elephant in the room.
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MotoGP Off-Season Thread
- Thread starter kevin 714
- Start date
- Status
But no, wanting to undo technological breakthroughs of the past 40 years won't help anything when the sucky world economy is the obvious elephant in the room.
dtrides
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2004
- Location
- Redding, Ca.
- Moto(s)
- Husqvarna for the dirt, Ktm 690 smc r for the street, gsxr version 2.0-750 for the track
- Name
- Duncan
Not to undue all the tecnology we enjoy out on the street, but may be folks racing Ninja 300's in a box stock racing classes will be the future? If manufactures could offer entry level bikes minus the street bits really reasonable it might bring in a whole new breed of folks to race.
DT
DT
RaptorFA
EarShplitinloudenboomer
I agree to an extent that the technology has gotten a bit out of control, especially when that technology is monopolized by just a few. Unfortunately you can't put that Genie back in the bottle. There is just no going back to "simpler times". The best we can hope for is that the governing bodies can find some kind of balance so that the product can continue to advance and showcase technological excellence while producing a show that will make more fans want to watch.
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RaptorFA
EarShplitinloudenboomer
Yes, and then there is Mr. Show...
RaptorFA
EarShplitinloudenboomer
Well you know, that is the other aspect to the spectacle. A good show has to have a dynamic human aspect to it. I think we can all agree that over the last few years there hasn't been that dynamic in place. For all the alien talent, these guys are a bit boring! This is one thing that NASCAR has going for it; Though very good, technically the machines and the racing doesn't hold a candle, but these drivers are a charasmatic group that have carved quite a niche. They are not fake by any means; these men are fierce competitors and they race as hard as any. But they express themselves in interesting ways that has captivated a huge following.
I'm not saying that the MotoGP paddock should become like NASCAR; I'm just saying that NASCAR has found a unique marketing approach that has found a high degree of success. DORNA needs to consider putting a bit more energy into the marketing aspects of MotoGP in order to bring this excellent show to a bigger and wider audience.
I'm not saying that the MotoGP paddock should become like NASCAR; I'm just saying that NASCAR has found a unique marketing approach that has found a high degree of success. DORNA needs to consider putting a bit more energy into the marketing aspects of MotoGP in order to bring this excellent show to a bigger and wider audience.
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kelsodeez
2wheels good 4wheels bad
in other news, valentino rossi kicked major ass at the monza rally race
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Valentino+Rossi+owns+Monza+Rally
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Valentino+Rossi+owns+Monza+Rally
Outliers
This is one of the more comical threads you boys have produced in a while. Serious levels outside your "normal" don't know what you are talking about--I'll come back to this in a bit. First lets talk about outliers for those are the ones that can make it on to the world stage, and there is a specific path for which they can travel to that end.
Malcolm Gladwell, in 2008, had a book published that explains in a clear fashion (on a level that nearly anyone can digest), about the concept in his book Outliers. If you have yet to avail yourself the pleasure of reading this book, and you are truly interested in why America isn't performing at a high level on the world stage in road racing go get and read this book--if you still don't get it then read book again until concept starts to sink in and you develop enlightenment. The basic premise of Gladwell's book, and the concept of outliers is that it takes opportunity for anyone to develop an ability to a high level where they can compete at the top of their field. To understand the rational for this read his book.
Do we in America present this opportunity to our potential riders? To get a good understanding of what this opportunity is watch this Marc Márquez documentary from 2010. This will give you an easily established understanding of what a world champion (he is now twice a world champion) goes through on his path to be that world champion. If we compare this to the research presented in Gladwell's book we can see how his concepts are clearly addressed in Márquez's march to the championship. So do we present this opportunity here in the States? Well, yes and no.
We actually do have some opportunities for young riders in the States--there is Stony Landers's MiniMoto, there's Youngs Lee's M1GP, and Ozzy Saez out in Florida for years helped bring in bikes, equipment, and promoted races at the same level as can be found in Europe. Ozzy even placed riders onto the world stage with Rookies Cup entries. Also of note: this coming week Keith Code is hosting his very first MiniMoto school--there are people working hard to create this opportunity to develop outliers.
So there is a scene, however were you to listen to folks like the ones in this thread (who even have a passing interest), then you would find they are clueless as to what's going on in the States--and because there is so much cluelessness it is as if the scene doesn't exist. In addition to this cluelessness there is the serious bias about what kind of bike a person should get when starting out. If all you were to do is look at forums like teh Barf you'd come out believing that if you were manly you get at least a 650, and if you were wimpy you'd start out on a Ninja 250. This attitude has a serious negative effect on the promotion of helping to develop new and young riders--if we compare this to dirt riders, where we can clearly see a high level of performance on the world stage by American riders, we don't see people starting out on bikes with a proportional amount of weight and displacement. Because of this inverted attitude with road bikes we don't have a selection of bikes needed to support new and young riders outside of what folks like Ozzy have brought into the States.
Lets address the chest puffers that make claim that Americans are competing at a high level on the world stage of road racing--sure they'll bring up Hayden and Spies--okay that's two (who did by the way start out on small bikes, and are as Gladwell would call outliers). The Red Bull Rookies Cup (as addressed previously) is an excellent measure of what we are contributing because it has a proven track record of placing racers onto the world stage in MotoGP. Last year from California we had Joel Roberts who started out in the dirt and after 7 years of racing made it to the Rookies Cup in 2011, and again in 2012. In 2012 he had two podiums and mostly a bunch of unremarkable races which garnered enough points to place him 8th in the championship--in 2011 he actually did win one of the races. How does that compare to the Euro riders? I'll let you research that yourself, but it doesn't take an great intellectual power to figure it out--he's not winning. For 2013 we have Bay Area rider Anthony Alonso representing, and I sincerely hope he makes us proud--however so far we've really had very little to show in that arena, and it mirrors most of the world level of road racing.
How about technology? One of you voiced this as the reason we aren't producing champions. In the late nineties and early naughties thanks to folks like Ozzy out east, Derbi USA in Portland, Calimari in Salinas, and Spi-Parts in Los Gatos, people could actually purchase world class level bikes for new and young riders. For a number of reasons--partially due to Piaggio's consolidation of many of the Euro bikes, and their decision to not market the small displacement motorcycles in the States--it has become more of a challenge to get proper equipment--harder, but it is still possible, and there are organizations of folks that have made an effort to support these endeavors.
So we've learned that technology hasn't always been the main reason we aren't competitive. We've also seen that there is a support system (however haggard) in place, and we know what it takes to places riders onto the world stage. The one big issue keeping America from having stronger representation is our inverted attitude about what is a reasonable first bike, and what sorts of bikes should be marketed to new and young riders in order to help create the opportunity for outliers in road racing. Until that attitude sees some seriously adjustment, and we begin to properly support the opportunities for the young and new riders it is highly improbable that we'll develop much in the way of outlier representation on the world stage of road racing.
This is one of the more comical threads you boys have produced in a while. Serious levels outside your "normal" don't know what you are talking about--I'll come back to this in a bit. First lets talk about outliers for those are the ones that can make it on to the world stage, and there is a specific path for which they can travel to that end.
Malcolm Gladwell, in 2008, had a book published that explains in a clear fashion (on a level that nearly anyone can digest), about the concept in his book Outliers. If you have yet to avail yourself the pleasure of reading this book, and you are truly interested in why America isn't performing at a high level on the world stage in road racing go get and read this book--if you still don't get it then read book again until concept starts to sink in and you develop enlightenment. The basic premise of Gladwell's book, and the concept of outliers is that it takes opportunity for anyone to develop an ability to a high level where they can compete at the top of their field. To understand the rational for this read his book.
Do we in America present this opportunity to our potential riders? To get a good understanding of what this opportunity is watch this Marc Márquez documentary from 2010. This will give you an easily established understanding of what a world champion (he is now twice a world champion) goes through on his path to be that world champion. If we compare this to the research presented in Gladwell's book we can see how his concepts are clearly addressed in Márquez's march to the championship. So do we present this opportunity here in the States? Well, yes and no.
We actually do have some opportunities for young riders in the States--there is Stony Landers's MiniMoto, there's Youngs Lee's M1GP, and Ozzy Saez out in Florida for years helped bring in bikes, equipment, and promoted races at the same level as can be found in Europe. Ozzy even placed riders onto the world stage with Rookies Cup entries. Also of note: this coming week Keith Code is hosting his very first MiniMoto school--there are people working hard to create this opportunity to develop outliers.
So there is a scene, however were you to listen to folks like the ones in this thread (who even have a passing interest), then you would find they are clueless as to what's going on in the States--and because there is so much cluelessness it is as if the scene doesn't exist. In addition to this cluelessness there is the serious bias about what kind of bike a person should get when starting out. If all you were to do is look at forums like teh Barf you'd come out believing that if you were manly you get at least a 650, and if you were wimpy you'd start out on a Ninja 250. This attitude has a serious negative effect on the promotion of helping to develop new and young riders--if we compare this to dirt riders, where we can clearly see a high level of performance on the world stage by American riders, we don't see people starting out on bikes with a proportional amount of weight and displacement. Because of this inverted attitude with road bikes we don't have a selection of bikes needed to support new and young riders outside of what folks like Ozzy have brought into the States.
Lets address the chest puffers that make claim that Americans are competing at a high level on the world stage of road racing--sure they'll bring up Hayden and Spies--okay that's two (who did by the way start out on small bikes, and are as Gladwell would call outliers). The Red Bull Rookies Cup (as addressed previously) is an excellent measure of what we are contributing because it has a proven track record of placing racers onto the world stage in MotoGP. Last year from California we had Joel Roberts who started out in the dirt and after 7 years of racing made it to the Rookies Cup in 2011, and again in 2012. In 2012 he had two podiums and mostly a bunch of unremarkable races which garnered enough points to place him 8th in the championship--in 2011 he actually did win one of the races. How does that compare to the Euro riders? I'll let you research that yourself, but it doesn't take an great intellectual power to figure it out--he's not winning. For 2013 we have Bay Area rider Anthony Alonso representing, and I sincerely hope he makes us proud--however so far we've really had very little to show in that arena, and it mirrors most of the world level of road racing.
How about technology? One of you voiced this as the reason we aren't producing champions. In the late nineties and early naughties thanks to folks like Ozzy out east, Derbi USA in Portland, Calimari in Salinas, and Spi-Parts in Los Gatos, people could actually purchase world class level bikes for new and young riders. For a number of reasons--partially due to Piaggio's consolidation of many of the Euro bikes, and their decision to not market the small displacement motorcycles in the States--it has become more of a challenge to get proper equipment--harder, but it is still possible, and there are organizations of folks that have made an effort to support these endeavors.
So we've learned that technology hasn't always been the main reason we aren't competitive. We've also seen that there is a support system (however haggard) in place, and we know what it takes to places riders onto the world stage. The one big issue keeping America from having stronger representation is our inverted attitude about what is a reasonable first bike, and what sorts of bikes should be marketed to new and young riders in order to help create the opportunity for outliers in road racing. Until that attitude sees some seriously adjustment, and we begin to properly support the opportunities for the young and new riders it is highly improbable that we'll develop much in the way of outlier representation on the world stage of road racing.
kelsodeez
2wheels good 4wheels bad
yea, cliff notes are a beautiful thing
tl;dr
tl;dr
JO EBRMC
Is idjut
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2008
- Location
- West Oakland
- Moto(s)
- XR650, Buell 1125CR and F3/RC51/Hawk/CBR929/VFR - that's one bike
- Name
- Jerry
Lots of people came to watch , just not the masses in their easy chairs.
DT
I lived in Montana in the 70s obsessed with motorcycle racing. MotoGP and motorcycle racing was shown on TV about once every two years. I grew up with flat track and loved it but it wasn't roadracing. I searched out every piece of news I could find on the roadracing world which was unbelievably hard before the Internet.
But I was the exception. Maybe the only one in Montana.
The "lots of people" you are talking about didn't pay the riders what the risk they take is worth.
papa911
New member
Just like a lot of your posts- long and wrong. The path is here, the bikes are here. It's a very expensive and time consuming dangerous niche sport, ( niche in the U.S. ).
If you have thousands of kids racing, you have 50 gems. If you have a hundred kids, you get a few.
stangmx13
not Stan
video up of him and Bautista getting a little dry time, just not much.
apparently Bautista is testing the latest offering from Showa, attempting to solve some front-end problems on braking they had during the last race. Bautista also hinted that they havent made a decision yet about what suspension to use next year... would HRC let them run Ohlins?
That was my favorite part, I'm glad he included it in the executive summary paragraph. Well written.
stangmx13
not Stan
there's something to be said for presenting a concise argument.
it took me a little while to find the point of your argument since u presented evidence both for and against whether or not the US has a system setup to produce roadracing talent, but there it was at the end.... same old shtick. if that argument was presented in the book you read, why not present the author's points instead of your personal bias? if you are just interjecting your thoughts and trying to validate them by listing them alongside of a published work, dont you think thats a little silly? also, you may or may not have addressed anyone else's points in this thread since i have no idea who you are responding too. but seriously, cant u come up w/ anything new? a few more tl;dr's across all these threads and ull be the new House or BLS.
ColaGuy
New member
Hope this isn't too off-topic.
But....does motorcycle racing really compliment the skill set needed for car racing too? With Stoner likely to jump into V8's and Rossi previously toying in an F1 ride and his success with rally...it seems as though it does. As a rider, I guess I just don't see/feel it.
Perhaps mastering the feel of a vehicle on the edge of adhesion, the ideal line, setting up for a pass etc is similar enough. Just surprising to me I guess.
stangmx13
not Stan
i think when you are just that talented, it all kinda works. even Michael Schumacher is fast enough on a SBK to qualify for German national-series races. of course, always having the option of top-level equipment helps too.
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