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My R1200S blew its engine yesterday

weak_link said:
I'm finally at the point in my life where BMW motorcycles seem interesting and kinda exciting but the people I know that have owned them in the last couple years always end up having major issues. Kinda takes the bloom off the rose and looks like I'll stick with my other Euro-weenie marks like KTM and Ducati.
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for about 900 -1000 bucks more you can get a 7 year unlimited mileage warranty on a new BMW. kinda takes the worry out of it since I've never owned a bike more than a few years before selling it.
 
Cheyenne said:
Some people think that a rough break in ensures a long life of high performance.

People have specifically theorized that those "demo" bike motors may end up being the best ones, because people leaned on them a bit when they were breaking in.

Not tried it myself, but the next new motor I get will not be babied much at all for it's break in.

Anyone have any anecdotal stories?
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I've got plenty of anecdotes that indicate the contrary opinion, but those are all on much older technology, which really did require proper break-in.
I don't honestly know about modern engines. My only recent experience is my Aprilia, and I followed the factory instructions on that.

But, regarding the current discussion, I agree, none of the issues such as previous abuse, wrong oil or fuel would cause a sudden catastrophic failure. The signs of imminent demise from of the engine from those causes would have preceded the ultimate failure by many miles/months.
 
Alright then. I was going to suggest a previous history of dropping said BMW on its side, cracking the cylinder. :)wtf ;) )
but.. since the OP has his brother's BMW failing the same way.. it's probably beer-build-quality that failed this particular specimen.
Unless both brothers have a history of drop-the-beemer on-the-side!!!
 
AbsolutEnduser said:
Alright then. I was going to suggest a previous history of dropping said BMW on its side, cracking the cylinder. :)wtf ;) )
but.. since the OP has his brother's BMW failing the same way.. it's probably beer-build-quality that failed this particular specimen.
Unless both brothers have a history of drop-the-beemer on-the-side!!!
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(said brother here)

Nope - no droppage, on either bike. Clean, non-abused specimens, failing in the most spectacular way...

I always thought that my R12gs's motor felt like it was going to blow as it revved past 4k... and then, go figure, it did :|
 
Cheyenne said:
Some people think that a rough break in ensures a long life of high performance.
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Not sure about "rough" exactly, but some bike break-in methods are way too conservative. The idea is to get all the metal bits mating with each other nicely (tolerances are better so this is somewhat less imporant these days), and some procedures don't really stress anything enough to accomplish this. For instance, Kawasaki appears to use the same break-in recommendation stickers on the tach across the range, which gets kind of inadequate when 14,000 rpm redlines are involved.

So, I think it's best to gradually load a motor more, but definitely include some high-rpm usage (light loading at first) in the break-in procedure. How much this matters probably comes down (again) to tolerances etc though.

T
 
Mawg said:
So, I think it's best to gradually load a motor more, but definitely include some high-rpm usage (light loading at first) in the break-in procedure. How much this matters probably comes down (again) to tolerances etc though.

T
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More recently, I've read of break-in procedures that recommended doing the break in with full-throttle/full-load runs up to progressively higher revs (after warming engine to temp, of course). The reasoning seems pretty sound, even though it sounds harsh compared to factory recommended procedures.
 
If you search Gspot over at ADVrider, you'll find several instances of dropped (broken) valves and broken pistons, typically on the right side. It's not because of riding- it's pretty clear that a motorcycle engine shouldn't break valves under normal conditions.

The 1200 series has a knock sensor, and adjusts timing for lower octane fuel, so that shouldn't be a problem. It's also got pretty complex engine management, so if this was caused by the engine running too lean, that's a software issue. Hopefully BMW will step up to the plate and fix your engine. I don't think they'll do it without a struggle though. . . .
 
slackmeyer said:
If you search Gspot over at ADVrider, you'll find several instances of dropped (broken) valves and broken pistons, typically on the right side. It's not because of riding- it's pretty clear that a motorcycle engine shouldn't break valves under normal conditions.

The 1200 series has a knock sensor, and adjusts timing for lower octane fuel, so that shouldn't be a problem. It's also got pretty complex engine management, so if this was caused by the engine running too lean, that's a software issue. Hopefully BMW will step up to the plate and fix your engine. I don't think they'll do it without a struggle though. . . .
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Good insights. Thanks very much.
 
nvp said:
I was riding HWY1 with my brother yesterday and enjoying the first sun-splashed Sunday in many weeks. As I was accelerating out of a corner the engine made a *ping* noise followed by a *clack clack clack clack*. The bike was no longer running, so I coasted off the road. I pretty much knew what happened immediately.

To note:
- The bike is a 2007, has 11k miles and has never been on the racetrack (although that was my entire intention/motivation behind buying the bike... ironically)

- The bike has been serviced regularly by Bay Area BMW dealers

- I checked the oil the day before the ride (level was mid-way in the window)

- The conditions were a bit sketchy (dirt, gravel, wet patches, etc.) so if anything, I was riding more mellow than normal.

- The bike is ridden regularly as I commute rain or shine

- It's parked on a center stand at all times to keep oil distribution within the engine even between the cylinders (not that it should matter... more paranoia than anything.)

- My brothers last bike, an R1200GS, did EXACTLY the same thing under the same conditions as mine... at the same mileage! I was riding behind him at the time.
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210544

The bike was "towed" to Moto Marin. It will be diagnosed this week (if it's not stolen from the parking lot before then). The bike is 6 months out of warranty, so it will be interesting to see whether BMW NA will step in and make this right. If not, my 10-year affair with BMW's will certainly be over.

If anyone knows of other cases where an R12 engine blew up under normal usage I'd love to know about it. I did a search and came up with a couple of cases already.

Your thoughts are appreciated. If you just want to tell me "I'm screwed" keep it to yourself. I'm pretty sad as it is.:(

Thanks.
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My thoughts are this:

You should not post any more speculations, complaints or threats here, or anywhere else on the internet. Wait to see what the diagnosis is, talk with the dealer (same owner BTW as Marin BMW) and see what comes from that. If you're out making noise and complaining before BMWNA makes their decision and they catch wind of it, they'll consider that in the final outcome.

Wait and see, keep it off the interwebs, then post up the final final.
 
The motor was possibly built in Munich on the Monday after the end of Oktoberfest? :staRang

Metallurgy: somethings metal components fail. Could be a broken valve spring, titanium valve or some other small component gone klink. Cascading failures ensue.

We can hope BMW steps up to cover the fix but six months out of warranty unfortunately leaves you technically holding the bag.
 
*subscribed*

I'm curious to hear how the motor grenaded. I haven't heard about too many R motors going so fast. I've heard of a lot more going over 100k without a problem. I'm guessing it has something to do with the pipe. I'm also wondering what you and your brother have in common.
 
boney said:
My thoughts are this:

You should not post any more speculations, complaints or threats here, or anywhere else on the internet. Wait to see what the diagnosis is, talk with the dealer (same owner BTW as Marin BMW) and see what comes from that. If you're out making noise and complaining before BMWNA makes their decision and they catch wind of it, they'll consider that in the final outcome.

Wait and see, keep it off the interwebs, then post up the final final.
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I agree. And that's why all I have done is state the facts. If you are referring to my reference about BMW's choice, to make this positive PR or negative PR, that too is just a fact. I love BMW. I have owned two of their bikes and ridden them over 8 years total, about 45k miles. I have had a 2002, 325is, M3, MCoupe and an X5. You won't find a bigger fan.

And I have known Cary since he bought the franchise from Roary. I am confident he will do everything he can to make this right. He's a great guy. But in the end, it will be up to BMW NA.
 
Sorry to hear of your misfortune, but I'd be willing to bet BMW tells you to pound sand (6 months out of warranty!) :rolleyes

-Rocky-
 
plumber said:
*subscribed*

I'm curious to hear how the motor grenaded. I haven't heard about too many R motors going so fast. I've heard of a lot more going over 100k without a problem. I'm guessing it has something to do with the pipe. I'm also wondering what you and your brother have in common.
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I spent 20 minutes on ADVRider Forum and found ten cases of the same thing happening on 2005-2008 R bikes, all within the 8k to 14k mile range. For what it's worth, this is not a first (or a second). All the cases were within warranty, so they were covered no question.
 
nvp said:
I spent 20 minutes on ADVRider Forum and found ten cases of the same thing happening on 2005-2008 R bikes, all within the 8k to 14k mile range. For what it's worth, this is not a first (or a second). All the cases were within warranty, so they were covered no question.
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What was the cause?
 
ohio said:
More recently, I've read of break-in procedures that recommended doing the break in with full-throttle/full-load runs up to progressively higher revs (after warming engine to temp, of course). The reasoning seems pretty sound, even though it sounds harsh compared to factory recommended procedures.
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Sounds a lot like a trackday to me. :party
 
reidconti said:
Bulletproof unless you had a Nikasil timebomb.
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I've had two '95 540's with the Nikasil motor. The first one had about 230k on the original motor when I sold it. The second one currently has 245k on the original motor. Both of them run strong and don't burn any oil. My current one gets 26-28mpg highway (@75), pretty good considering it was rated at 20 or 21 by the EPA. Far from being a timebomb.

The Nikasil problem was hugely overstated, IMO. Same with the final drive on the bikes. I think there were a handful of people with problems and they created a shit storm on the internet. Again, IMO. YMMV..
 
mweitz said:
What was the cause?
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Dropped valves, I suspect? When was the last valve adjustment done, and who did it? You have to stay on top of the valve adjustments on the R motors, because the lash gets tighter over time. Especially when the motor is new; the lash can change quite a bit until the motor is fairly well broken in (which means 20k+ miles). It's deceptive because as the lash tightens the valves get quieter, and you'll think the motor is running better. At some point you'll risk burning a valve.

There's the saying that "A tappy valve is a happy valve".
 
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