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My recent experience with Spot SOS feature

ride365 said:
So what else should a beefed-up kit contain besides the usual and the following?
  • splint
  • bandages
  • ice pack
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head:

- QuikClot
- a few pairs of rubber gloves
- maybe a tourniquet - but only if you know how/when to use it and only for situations where you absolutely cannot control the bleeding any other way long enough for EMS to arrive.
- a pocket mask of some sort for mouth-to-mouth CPR
 
JPK said:
Thanks. Yes, it's true that some of the newer Spot's allow you to send customized OK messages. The main problem with these is that they're all still 1-way devices. The way they work is that, in order to maximize the likelihood that the SOS is transmitted successfully they broadcast it multiple times every several minutes. Since you have no way of knowing if/when the SOS has successfully transmitted, you have to let it sit transmitting the SOS for a good long while. If you send an SOS, and then send a custom OK to tell your spouse you're fine, the SOS stops broadcasting. If you have a 2-way device you can get positive confirmation that the SOS has gone through, and you can be simultaneously SMS'ing with others. The new DeLorme InReach SE doesn't require a smartphone to SMS, so this is likely the route I'm going to go.

BTW - great meeting you on Sunday. Hopefully we'll meet up again some time.
Click to expand...

I didn't read the whole thread so I apologize if this has already been said. My wife and I have discussed this issue and decided that if I ever needed to send an SOS signal for somebody else, I would FIRST send an OK signal (that she would presumably receive).
 
OldFatGuy said:
I didn't read the whole thread so I apologize if this has already been said. My wife and I have discussed this issue and decided that if I ever needed to send an SOS signal for somebody else, I would FIRST send an OK signal (that she would presumably receive).
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that, in order to ensure that the OK message gets out, the Spot will transmit it 3 times over a 20 minute period. This means that you can't really be sure the OK got out unless you let it sit broadcasting the OK for 20 minutes. This means you will delay calling for help for 20 minutes. Help or SOS calls take priority over OK calls, so if you press the help or SOS button before the 20 minutes and the OK had not yet transmitted successfully, the OK will stop sending and the Help or SOS will be sent instead. Without having a closed-loop system of knowing that a message was transmitted successfully, you need to sit and let the entire broadcast cycle complete, thus delaying calling for help.
 
JPK said:
The problem with this is that, in order to ensure that the OK message gets out, the Spot will transmit it 3 times over a 20 minute period. This means that you can't really be sure the OK got out unless you let it sit broadcasting the OK for 20 minutes. This means you will delay calling for help for 20 minutes. Help or SOS calls take priority over OK calls, so if you press the help or SOS button before the 20 minutes and the OK had not yet transmitted successfully, the OK will stop sending and the Help or SOS will be sent instead. Without having a closed-loop system of knowing that a message was transmitted successfully, you need to sit and let the entire broadcast cycle complete, thus delaying calling for help.
Click to expand...

I'm all out of suggestions, then. :laughing
 
Here's a quick follow-up based on some additional discussions today:

GEOS called me again today (yes, they called me) to see if I still had concerns about the response. We talked through the sequence of events again. I have to say I'm pretty impressed with GEOS' response, both during the incident and in their follow-up with me afterwards. I then called the San Benito County Sheriff PSAP (public safety answering point) and spoke to them again about their response.

It appears as though the chain of response was moving in the right direction:

- GEOS called me. No Answer
- GEOS called my wife. Talked to her for several minutes.
- GEOS called Cal EMA at 8 minutes post-SOS. Informed them of the event.
- GEOS called San Benito Sheriff at 11 min post-SOS. Informed them of the event and relayed all information (GPS coordinates, info from my wife, etc.). They recommended contacting the BLM to see if anyone was in the area.
- GEOS contacted BLM. No resources were within radio range.
- GEOS called back to SB Sheriff PSAP. By this point, they had already found out that Cal Fire was responding.

From there, we know the Cal Fire and AMR response.

Based on all of this, it sounds like GEOS was all over it, but was having to juggle multiple agencies in CA. By the time they figured out who was going to send resources, Cal Fire had already responded.

Moral of this story: Spot/GEOS appears to work as advertised but may be slowed, based on how many government agencies they have to interact with to coordinate a response. If you have the resources to pursue parallel paths in an emergency, do so.

As an aside, I talked to the GEOS dispatcher for a while about hardware. He was quick to support the Spot as a good tool, primarily because it's foolproof... you just push the button. If, however you willing to deal with the added complexity of a 2-way device like the DeLorme, he says that response effectiveness goes up tremendously. Not only can they tell you what they're doing, but they can get valuable information from you about what exactly the emergency is. As an example, my wife told them that there were ~40 of us out riding that day. That's all the information she had to give them, so they didn't know if they were dealing with one victim or 40. If it had been multiple victims and they had rolled on scene with one ambulance initially, it would have been an even longer wait for the other victims.

All interesting things to ponder as you think through how you plan to respond to situations in the future.
 
It's super awesome to get this level of insight into how this works. Thanks again for sharing. :thumbup
 
Yes, thank you for the follow up info. It's all very helpful.

Since we're discussing all options, let's say something happens to me and I'm unable to actively push a button or otherwise communicate... will a beacon like the ResQ Link still send a passive signal to aid in a search? Will any of the others (Spot Messenger, DeLorme InReach, satellite phones)?
 
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monkeyneck said:
It's super awesome to get this level of insight into how this works. Thanks again for sharing. :thumbup
Click to expand...

This.

Also, JPK, your insight on knowing about ALL the possible rescue/response/medical options in a particular area is a damn good one. For example, next time I ride in Colorado, I'll be looking up the fire stations, ranger stations, etc. as well as local hospitals beforehand. The idea that one's own GPS is a wealth of local medical resources is a good thing to remember, as well.

Excellent to coordinate parallel rescue efforts that turned out to be faster than the SPOT/local agency response could be; I can see why the seeming lack of response was upsetting in the first place, though. Sometimes good old fashioned first aid and legwork are the way to go.

It's easy to start to have expectations that we're owed a fast, coordinated rescue if we have SPOT devices and cell phones, these days. In reality, we've bought a service from a private company, but it's still one or more public agencies (likely underfunded and understaffed) that end up doing rescues. The SPOT is just one more tool that might help in a tough situation.
 
monkeyneck said:
It's super awesome to get this level of insight into how this works. Thanks again for sharing. :thumbup
Click to expand...

ride365 said:
Yes, thank you for the follow up info. It's all very helpful.
Click to expand...

You're very welcome. I was very curious to understand exactly what happened in this case, and I'm happy to share what I learned with everyone here.

ride365 said:
Since we're discussing all options, let's say something happens to me and I'm unable to actively push a button or otherwise communicate... will a beacon like the ResQ Link still send a passive signal to aid in a search? Will any of the others (Spot Messenger, DeLorme InReach, satellite phones)?
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with the ResQ Link but the Spot, DeLorme InReach, and Iridium Extreme sat phone all have a tracking feature that will passively send out your coordinates at some fixed time interval, even if you're incapacitated -- assuming they have a clear view of the sky.
 
Nemo Brinker said:
This.

Also, JPK, your insight on knowing about ALL the possible rescue/response/medical options in a particular area is a damn good one. For example, next time I ride in Colorado, I'll be looking up the fire stations, ranger stations, etc. as well as local hospitals beforehand. The idea that one's own GPS is a wealth of local medical resources is a good thing to remember, as well.

Excellent to coordinate parallel rescue efforts that turned out to be faster than the SPOT/local agency response could be; I can see why the seeming lack of response was upsetting in the first place, though. Sometimes good old fashioned first aid and legwork are the way to go.

It's easy to start to have expectations that we're owed a fast, coordinated rescue if we have SPOT devices and cell phones, these days. In reality, we've bought a service from a private company, but it's still one or more public agencies (likely underfunded and understaffed) that end up doing rescues. The SPOT is just one more tool that might help in a tough situation.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nemo. I hope you have a fast and full recovery, and you're out riding in Colorado soon!
 
ST Guy said:
Good write up.

And that's a bummer that your wife was so worried. That must have freaked her out.

Is the high cost of a satellite phone pretty much limited to the cost of the phone itself? 50 bucks a month doesn't sound like a lot to me once you get past the cost of the phone itself. Or do the calls themselves cost a lot?
Click to expand...

http://www.satellitephonestore.com/iridium-monthly-service-plans

Here's one option where for $50/month you get 20 minutes included and voicemail. I see Iridium phones on Ebay used for under $500, but I'm not sure what the difference is in reliability/features between something at that price level and the ones that closer to $1,500
 
Eric in Davis said:
http://www.satellitephonestore.com/iridium-monthly-service-plans

Here's one option where for $50/month you get 20 minutes included and voicemail. I see Iridium phones on Ebay used for under $500, but I'm not sure what the difference is in reliability/features between something at that price level and the ones that closer to $1,500
Click to expand...

Nice - the North America 20 seems like a good plan. I hadn't come across that before.

There are definitely less expensive sat phones out there. The previously mentioned Globalstar GSP-1700 can be found for less than $400. On the Iridium network, you can find refurbished sat phones for around $500. The main differences between the lower-priced phones and the newest Iridium Extreme are size, weight, level of shock/waterproofness, built-in GPS positioning so it can transmit your coordinates, and most important to me is that the Extreme is the only sat phone that has a tracking feature and an SOS button similar to a Spot messenger.
 
Phone, SPOT, GPS are all useful tools and I carry them all. However even phone can really screw you. Riding in Cambodia a friend had a nasty accident. First we tried summoning help via his "rescue insurance".. what a joke (waste of precious time) that was. Finally the guide called a copter service he knew based upon a GPS fix one one of the party had--some fancy looking GPS app--which ended up sending the copter 20K in the wrong direction. It finally found us with bingo fuel. But anyway, the moral of the story is never trust any GPS fix unless its corroborated by at least 1 other device, and/or repeatably consistent (see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision).
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but for anyone with an iPhone (I'm sure something similar exists for Android) you can use the "Find Friends" app from Apple to share your GPS location with someone. It's not the best and if you ride out of cell phone range then obviously it's not going to help much. But, if you have a smart phone and are already paying for a data plan you might as well use it since it costs you nothing extra, right?

Even for just daily riding/commute it could potentially really help a loved one to figure out what happened to you if you had a crash. Or if you break down somewhere out of cell phone service, your loved one will have the last GPS location that was logged so they at least have a clue to as to where to start looking for you.
 
JPK said:
Off the top of my head:

- QuikClot
- a few pairs of rubber gloves
- maybe a tourniquet - but only if you know how/when to use it and only for situations where you absolutely cannot control the bleeding any other way long enough for EMS to arrive.
- a pocket mask of some sort for mouth-to-mouth CPR
Click to expand...

Is QuickClot something that could be dangerous if not used properly?
 
Meter Man said:
Is QuickClot something that could be dangerous if not used properly?
Click to expand...

In it's commercially-available form, it's a mesh pouch that you place over a wound and apply pressure to. I can't think of any ways it could be used improperly.
 
I was browsing ADVrider and came across a relevant thread with all kinds of info on how SPOT, GPS and local authorities actually do (or don't do) a rescue; in this case, the guy crashed alone on a remote trail, had many forum members and local SAR folks looking for him, and finally was found by the SPOT-dispatched helicopter...20 HOURS later. Yow.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613416&page=2
 
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