Thanks. I will contact them tomorrow and see what they have to say.
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My recent experience with Spot SOS feature
- Thread starter JPK
- Start date
Thanks. I will contact them tomorrow and see what they have to say.
Dmitriy
test
Good writeup, thanks for the heads up. This is NOT the first time SPOT messed up a 911 situation (search spot on this forum for the sea yacht writeup)
Basically IMO, SPOT is only worth relying on IF you have a responsible person (or a few) who after getting the 911 message will search the local (to you) emergency phone number and call it (probably local sheriff), stating their full contact info to assure its not a prank and providing the GPS coordinates to emergency location. Operating instead of GEOS, as clearly Cal OES call doesn't suffice & that is all SPOT is willing to do.
Basically IMO, SPOT is only worth relying on IF you have a responsible person (or a few) who after getting the 911 message will search the local (to you) emergency phone number and call it (probably local sheriff), stating their full contact info to assure its not a prank and providing the GPS coordinates to emergency location. Operating instead of GEOS, as clearly Cal OES call doesn't suffice & that is all SPOT is willing to do.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
Get This ^^^ and SPOT that.
Hoho
Ride to Eat
I have the SPOT Connect and the requisite app on my smartphone. I have preset messages like "Just checking in, everything is ok", "Accident, send help", "I'm ok, send help" or "Broken down, send help" and other variations to provide my contacts a little bit more information than just a plain SOS. After reading your story, I've added "Friend in an accident. Please send help" to my preset messages.
The app also lets me send one-off messages... it's still a one-way communication stream, but with better information getting out. I'm hoping I never have to use it aside from just checking in with my loved ones to let them know I'm ok.
On the recipient side, I've got family and rider friends in my contact lists that I can send the messages to. I've talked to every single person in my contact list to make sure that 1, they are ok with being notified, and 2, they know what to do when it comes down to it.
Great intel! Amazing that the human error, and game of telephone factors cannot be negated, even when doing so is the primary purpose of the company. You are your own best resource... so ride safely
I think this is really one of the key learnings here for me. I was always naively under the impression that if/when I ever had to use the SOS button, that someone would receive the distress call, make a phone call, and help would be on the way. The reality is that the response will likely involve a chain of communication across several government agencies, and may break down or be delayed at any of those hand-offs. I'd much rather be in control of the chain of communication myself with a sat phone, than rely on someone else to do it for me.
The failure here seems to be CA EMA. If they are responsible to respond to SPOT alerts then they should respond without hesitation. To me they sound like the Coast Guard of CA (inland). I know damn good and well that the CG would never not respond immediately once an Epirb was detected. Regardless if it was an accident or not. They start the response while they attempt to contact the vessel as any delay could be the difference between life or death. There is simply no excuse for CA EMA to not do the same.
Once a SPOT alert is given they should try to contact the number provided for confirmation. If no answer then immediately notify CA EMA, give them the GPS location of which EMA should immediately contact the local EMS and have them respond. Simple as that. Failure to react in this way could and should hold the CA EMA responsible for any death or injury proven worsened by lack of a timely response. There is simply no excuse for anything less.
Once a SPOT alert is given they should try to contact the number provided for confirmation. If no answer then immediately notify CA EMA, give them the GPS location of which EMA should immediately contact the local EMS and have them respond. Simple as that. Failure to react in this way could and should hold the CA EMA responsible for any death or injury proven worsened by lack of a timely response. There is simply no excuse for anything less.
MikeGyver
bye
Thank you for sharing the story. I don't understand why GEOS would not call the emergency number (911 equivalent) for the city nearest to the SPOT that was activated.
I'm sure there are so many false alarms (boy who cried wolf syndrome) that 911 operators don't even want to pursue blind SOS transmissions. It's like cops and missing persons reports, too many resources are wasted unless they are reasonable certainty that help is actually needed.
Don't make excuses. The whole point of a SPOT is to save your life if you need to use the SOS feature. Your expectations should be a quick and decisive emergency response and nothing less. It's a failure if they fail to provide an emergency response in a timely manor.
I doubt there are many false alarms of this type of system. People that decide they need an SOS device know what they are buying. The response should be immediate until proven no need not the other way around. We are talking a potential life threatening situation here. Its very doubtful that someone would use the SOS feature if they run out of gas and even if they do they have to pay for the response they get. So it's a moot point as far as EMS is concerned.
Sorry if I seem emotional on this but I spent almost 10 years in the Coast Guard and SAR is something that I feel is important. The OP's description of the response he got from the SPOT simply appalls me. Under no circumstances should there had been a delay to his SOS from CA EMA. I just hope other states have a better response effort. I know if I was the one at EMA that got the call I would do everything in my power to get the ball rolling. Failure to do so is to set yourself up for lawsuits galore.
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MikeGyver
bye
I thought police always respond no matter what. Like when if you call 911 and then leave the phone off the hook and don't say anything.
What is the point of using the SPOT if they don't respond because the responders think it might be a waste of their time?
What is the point of using the SPOT if they don't respond because the responders think it might be a waste of their time?
aciurczak
slower would be backwards
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- Mar 3, 2004
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- BARF CAL 24 rider 08 /09
The "who's on first" routine by the different organizations in the emergency response chain remains a concern. I've used the SPOT 911 functionality twice, and both times emergency response was successfully summoned quickly, and arrived sooner than would have been possible otherwise. (most recent one)
In that last one, the disconnect between the agencies seemed equally shaky. SPOT called GEOS, GEOS called someone in CA, someone in CA got in touch with the Sheriffs office and the local police, the local police and fire then showed up on scene (12 minutes total from button press to arrival).
But there is no quarterback managing that call, so the Sheriff's office still thought the call was live, for quite a long time after everything had been resolved. They were still in contact with my wife, and they even suggested that she take a drive up to see if things were resolved. While out of cell coverage, the location is still only about 20 - 25 minutes from home. The Sheriffs office evidently didn't know that the police/fire were on scene, and the police/fire didn't know that they had anyone else to let know that the call had been answered. So my wife ended up taking a nice drive up to check, and by the time she arrived they had cleaned everything up and they let her know what had happened (and that I had gone on my way for the rest of the ride). I had also sent an OK message as soon as emergency help did arrive, so SPOT was aware, or could have been aware, that all was OK. But that OK message doesn't seem to have a path to get down the chain to all the emergency responders that may have been contacted. By the time I returned to a location that had cell service, I only then realized the wild goose chase she was sent on, and was able to call her directly. Based on prior experience, she wasn't particularly stressed or worried, as logic dictates that if my SPOT device is the one that someone pressed 911 on, odds are I'm not the one in immediate need of help.
I really appreciate having the ability to get a message out from anywhere, and wouldn't ride without it. SPOT's become the defacto emergency response / tracking device for long distance motorcyclists, and will be carried by the vast majority of the iron butt competitors this year; the fact that we don't have to keep fuel logs if we're running a SPOT in tracking mode is certainly a large driver as well.
I'd certainly welcome 2-way communication capabilities at a similar price point. Would also be interested to hear suggestions/recommendations for SPOT/GEOS/EMA/Local communication to be handled in a more trustable way. It would be depressing if the technology continued to work reliably yet the process behind the scenes didn't.
In that last one, the disconnect between the agencies seemed equally shaky. SPOT called GEOS, GEOS called someone in CA, someone in CA got in touch with the Sheriffs office and the local police, the local police and fire then showed up on scene (12 minutes total from button press to arrival).
But there is no quarterback managing that call, so the Sheriff's office still thought the call was live, for quite a long time after everything had been resolved. They were still in contact with my wife, and they even suggested that she take a drive up to see if things were resolved. While out of cell coverage, the location is still only about 20 - 25 minutes from home. The Sheriffs office evidently didn't know that the police/fire were on scene, and the police/fire didn't know that they had anyone else to let know that the call had been answered. So my wife ended up taking a nice drive up to check, and by the time she arrived they had cleaned everything up and they let her know what had happened (and that I had gone on my way for the rest of the ride). I had also sent an OK message as soon as emergency help did arrive, so SPOT was aware, or could have been aware, that all was OK. But that OK message doesn't seem to have a path to get down the chain to all the emergency responders that may have been contacted. By the time I returned to a location that had cell service, I only then realized the wild goose chase she was sent on, and was able to call her directly. Based on prior experience, she wasn't particularly stressed or worried, as logic dictates that if my SPOT device is the one that someone pressed 911 on, odds are I'm not the one in immediate need of help.
I really appreciate having the ability to get a message out from anywhere, and wouldn't ride without it. SPOT's become the defacto emergency response / tracking device for long distance motorcyclists, and will be carried by the vast majority of the iron butt competitors this year; the fact that we don't have to keep fuel logs if we're running a SPOT in tracking mode is certainly a large driver as well.
I'd certainly welcome 2-way communication capabilities at a similar price point. Would also be interested to hear suggestions/recommendations for SPOT/GEOS/EMA/Local communication to be handled in a more trustable way. It would be depressing if the technology continued to work reliably yet the process behind the scenes didn't.
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I'm sure there are shortcoming in the system but from this description is seems like everyone did their job. Only conjecture here but Ca OEM and San Benito Sherriff office most likely did when they heard of the accident is check to see if it was being responded to. They then told GEOS that help was on the scene. Where is the breakdown here? Yes there is passing from agency to agency and some lag there but your accident was covered. Your rider got to the Fire dept before the call from GEOS etc disseminated. I'm assuming the Sherriff dept can see dispatch records without making a second call to Cal Fire dispatch. The 1-way communication of the device and GEOS inability to give details to your wife are both big considerations but it does not mean that rescue response was faulty.
Based on the information I have so far, I can't say definitively that their response was faulty, but it was definitely slow. Hence my conclusion further down in the same paragraph that you quoted, that " In the end, I still have to believe that the SOS call to Spot/GEOS would have eventually resulted in a response, but it would have taken significantly longer than the 2 hours it took to get the rider transported out."
MikeGyver
bye
The lag is the concerning part. OP stated that a rider left to find help after they all stood around a bit and discussed what to do. He found help 11 miles down the road. I would venture to guess that is roughly 15 minutes from button push to finding help. The ambulance said they never received notice of the accident. I would expect SPOT to have somebody rolling within 5 minutes of pressing the button, and even that is not satisfactory.
Gary856
Are we having fun yet?
Thanks very much for the write up; great info!
I agree that 2-way communication (text) would be so much better. I got the following rates from TheGPSStore.com - The "Safety Plan" would be all I need, and the rates seem reasonable compared to SPOT. The only thing is, from reading Amazon user reviews, these devices havne't achieved the user friendiless and realiability we've grown accustom to from main stream consumer electronics.
DeLorme InReach SE
Monthly Service Plans
Safety Plan - Unlimited SOS, 10 Messages per month, No Tracking, $9.95 per Month.
Overage - $1.50 per message and $0.25 per Track.
Recreation Plan - Unlimited SOS, 40 Messages per month, Unlimited Tracking, $24.95 per Month.
Overage - $0.50 per message.
Expedition Plan - Unlimited SOS, 120 Messages per month, Unlimited Tracking, $49.95 per Month.
Overage - $0.25 per message.
There is a one-time $11.95 activation charge.
http://www.thegpsstore.com/Delorme-inReach-SE.aspx
Absolutely. And every extra second an injured person has to sit there matters. And your write up on the experience is great in determining if you want to use/rely on a Spot. My takeaway is that it is still reliable, especially if you are a solo rider, but that sending a person for help is always going to be more direct and quicker. Knowing that it works this way is invaluable information in making a decision or even having an expectation of how it will work/time involved if you do end up needing it...
And as I said the other considerations are also big factors. All the chatter lately of ICE and Spot has got me talking and coordinating with my wife about these things as well and it's hard enough talking to her about the potentials of an accident I cannot imagine how thrown she'd be if she had to sit there for 3 hours imagining the worst.
And as I said the other considerations are also big factors. All the chatter lately of ICE and Spot has got me talking and coordinating with my wife about these things as well and it's hard enough talking to her about the potentials of an accident I cannot imagine how thrown she'd be if she had to sit there for 3 hours imagining the worst.
Thanks for posting the rate plans. So that's $299 msrp for the unit and $10/mo for SOS and occasional texts? Sounds like the lowest cost option of everything mentioned in this thread other than a plain beacon.
I've glossed over the satellite technologies involved... I assume the SOS signal will be persistent, but what is the reliability of one-off texts and the Iridium network?
first aid
So what else should a beefed-up kit contain besides the usual and the following?
So what else should a beefed-up kit contain besides the usual and the following?
- splint
- bandages
- ice pack
The Iridium network is considered to be the most reliable of the satellite networks. Far better than the Globalstar network that Spot uses.
I've pre-ordered my DeLorme InReach SE. They're back-ordered until mid/late June.
Anyone want a gen 1 Spot?
I've pre-ordered my DeLorme InReach SE. They're back-ordered until mid/late June.
Anyone want a gen 1 Spot?