norton commando advice

[moto-rama]

I remember the time I was riding on Redwood road when the header snapped off at the port and the entire pipe was dangling from the rubber bush. I held it back up to the port with my foot and rode home.

Oh, jeez, I guess I wasn't the only one with that problem. The above pictured Spitfire was always puking one header, easily identified by the deposits of melted boot rubber splotches.

Heh. Most embarrassing motorcycle moment of my life was when I was riding my friend Ed's one lung AJS. (Venom?)

It was very cool bike, but while starting it, it caught me halfway through the stroke and the kickstart ratchet reversed violently, forcing my knee straight up in to my chin, splitting it wide open. This all occurred in the yellow zone in front of the Med, while a group of very cute hippie chicks looked on in horror as I tried to recover myself, blood gushing out all over the place.

I managed to get it fired up and rode around the block to People's Park and spent an hour trying to get the bleeding stopped.

Just another Romantic Moment with a British bike.

 

[afm199]

nice one!

 

[corndog67]

Something almost identical to this happened with my 2004 Royal Enfield. Another time the headlight fell out and landed balanced on the front fender between the forks. A separate time the tailight fell off while riding, also a foot peg on another occasion. Its an interesting bike.

And thats a 2004. The 73 Bonneville did exactly that, the headlight fell out onto the front fender more than once. Foot pegs, air filters, tail light lenses, carb jets, ignitions, just all kinds of shit fell off, regularly. You sort of get used to it, really, you do. And you get fairly adept and getting it rideable enough to get home. Whether its holding the pipe on with your melting boot (I seem to recall doing that, too), or using 16 zipties to hold a headlight into the bucket, or helplessly watching the Smiths tachometer spin wildly around and around after it hit the stop pin and broke it off, its sure is an adventure, nearly every time you take off.

LB, do you have a truck? It comes in real handy sometimes.

 

[moto-rama]

One more..

Returning from Easter AM ride one time.....flying over San Rafael bridge at about 100+...and when we slowed down as we entered Richmond my friend Dave pulled up next to me and pulled my right side cover out of his jacket..."this hit me square in the helmet back there...do you want it?"

Uh...yeah!

 

[Schtum]

I'm reminded of my friend, Andrew who bought a '72 (?) 750 Commando Roadster in '76. It was reasonably quick when he bought it and would pull wheelies away from the lights two-up. However, Andrew was hell-bent on turning it into a long-distance high-speed sports tourer. This was before road motorcycles with different styles and purposes were ever produced and the closest thing he had in mind was the endurance racing motorcycles which were, at that time, being campaigned in 24 hour events at the Bol d'Or and similar events. So the Commando was dismantled to be reborn as a Godier Genoud Kawasaki replica or not....

One of the first things he found was that the pistons had been reversed in the bores and strangely enough, in spite of various hop-up parts, the bike never went so well again. In its final guise, the Commando sported a home-built fiberglass tank, a Dunstall twin headlamp endurance fairing with extended hand guards and a fibreglass seat pan and hump. All of these were painted in a lurid pink paint job which Andrew swore was a Porsche factory colour. The extended handguards were paired with home-wound heated grips. This was in the days before such things were commercially available and to power them and the twin headlamps, Andrew wound his own alternator stator and cast it in resin. The engine was filled with an assortment of tuning parts, ported head, high-comp pistons and hot camshaft which provided little or no more motive power than the original reversed piston setup. After the original Amal concentric carbs had shed their floatbowls by the roadside as a result of vibration, and he had to fashion a float spindle and needle from whittled matchsticks, Andrew fitted MkII Amal carburettors. The finishing touches were rearsets and Dunstall megaphone silencers.

Andrew actually made two trips from Scotland to France on the beast. On the first one he borrowed my Interstate tank which came back with a large dent from his left knee when he had crashed the bike. On the second trip he became so disgusted with the abomination he'd wrought that he sold it to a Frenchman for 1 Franc. Somehow, none of that served as a lesson to me and before I finally sold it, my '76 MkIII had been fitted with a ported head, 10.25:1 Omega pistons, a 3S camshaft, drilled front and rear brake discs, reverse-cone "peashooter" silencers, a red and white BMW Motorsport alike paintscheme, rose-jointed rearsets and adjustable Laverda Jota handlebars. None of that served to turn it into the Jota or R100RS which I coveted at the time.

 

[corndog67]

I'm reminded of my friend, Andrew who bought a '72 (?) 750 Commando Roadster in '76. It was reasonably quick when he bought it and would pull wheelies away from the lights two-up. However, Andrew was hell-bent on turning it into a long-distance high-speed sports tourer. This was before road motorcycles with different styles and purposes were ever produced and the closest thing he had in mind was the endurance racing motorcycles which were, at that time, being campaigned in 24 hour events at the Bol d'Or and similar events. So the Commando was dismantled to be reborn as a Godier Genoud Kawasaki replica or not....

One of the first things he found was that the pistons had been reversed in the bores and strangely enough, in spite of various hop-up parts, the bike never went so well again. In its final guise, the Commando sported a home-built fiberglass tank, a Dunstall twin headlamp endurance fairing with extended hand guards and a fibreglass seat pan and hump. All of these were painted in a lurid pink paint job which Andrew swore was a Porsche factory colour. The extended handguards were paired with home-wound heated grips. This was in the days before such things were commercially available and to power them and the twin headlamps, Andrew wound his own alternator stator and cast it in resin. The engine was filled with an assortment of tuning parts, ported head, high-comp pistons and hot camshaft which provided little or no more motive power than the original reversed piston setup. After the original Amal concentric carbs had shed their floatbowls by the roadside as a result of vibration, and he had to fashion a float spindle and needle from whittled matchsticks, Andrew fitted MkII Amal carburettors. The finishing touches were rearsets and Dunstall megaphone silencers.

Andrew actually made two trips from Scotland to France on the beast. On the first one he borrowed my Interstate tank which came back with a large dent from his left knee when he had crashed the bike. On the second trip he became so disgusted with the abomination he'd wrought that he sold it to a Frenchman for 1 Franc. Somehow, none of that served as a lesson to me and before I finally sold it, my '76 MkIII had been fitted with a ported head, 10.25:1 Omega pistons, a 3S camshaft, drilled front and rear brake discs, reverse-cone "peashooter" silencers, a red and white BMW Motorsport alike paintscheme, rose-jointed rearsets and adjustable Laverda Jota handlebars. None of that served to turn it into the Jota or R100RS which I coveted at the time.

Wow Mike, it sounds almost like we've lived parallel lives in different Universes. I've also taken perfectly decent stock motorcycles (and cars, too), and overcompressioned, overcammed, over ported, overcarbureted, expansion chambered/megaphoned my ear drums out, racing wheeled, rear-setted, too stiff suspension (stiffer is better, car or bike, right?), and turned them into hard starting, spark plug eating, probably not much if any faster than stock, kidney jarring, uncomfortable, bad handling pieces of shit. And spent a lot of money doing it also.

 

[littlebeast]

LB, do you have a truck? It comes in real handy sometimes.

have had several, and love them. but have no call for them on a regular basis - and they take up a shitload of space, so let the last one go a few years ago. know a very cool dude who runs a moto tow service. figure i could hire him somewhere around 15,000 times for the price of a halfway decent truck. so i go that route these days. renting something on a day-to-day basis works too. slightly worse cost/benefit ratio, but still pretty good considering how frequently i need one. but yeah, to your point, will re-run the numbers factoring for the 'british bike' variable lol.

 

[Carlo]

I loved my Interstate. I'm not sure you ever owned a Norton.

If you find one that has just been rebuilt, with fresh swingarm bushes, a working oil retention valve (keeps the sump from filling with oil), fresh valves (the stock ones were made for leaded gas), good frame bushes ( or it will wobble like a drunk sailor), fresh bearings throughout the motor, rebushed small ends on the rods, and electronic ignition, and never ride it over 5k rpm, it should last for years.(Almost forgot that you have to replace all the rubber bushings on the oil tank, the English ones are made from recycled condoms and last that long.) If you don't have all of these, you will be doing some serious work. I'm not sure what agenda Carlo has, I'm speaking from owning a shitload of these bikes, and riding them on street and track. They are absolutely beautiful to look at, I still love the look and sound. They are also forties tech bikes and do NOT last like modern turnkey Japanese bikes. Japanese bikes made in the seventies were sometimes problematic. Japanese bikes made in the last 10-20 years tend to be amazingly bulletproof. It's misleading to say "the right one" will last years. "The right one" is amazingly hard to find. Most of the ones of CL under $5k will be "the wrong one". I suggest, Carlo, that you grow up and stop making advice that is misleading. If you buy the right stock you will get rich.
And I'd like to suggest to you afm199 that you get over the negativity and let LB find out for herself what it's like to own a Commando, her experience may not be the same as yours. I know lots of Norton owners (Kenny Dreer is a friend of mine) who have had good experiences with their Commandos. What's different about them? None of them have ever tried to race them comes to mind immediately.

I suspect Larry agrees with me on this. Beautiful bike, fun to ride, great sound, lots of tradition. Lots of work.

But at your own risk. "The right one" may be out there, but you won't know it if you see it. I won't and I know more about these bikes than anyone else posting here except Larry.

Almost forgot, need the double row layshaft bearing ( I think it was the layshaft) for the transmission rebuild. When you hear "rebuild" it can mean a lot of things. One of them is a fresh top end, rings and a few wonky bearings. Another is a total rebuild. If the seller says "rebuild", a proper rebuild is going to cost a shit ton of money.

My only agenda is that if someone wants a British bike as much as it sounds like LB does (and also owns a modern bike as a primary ride) I think they should go ahead and buy one.
Now, about that red highlighted text in your quote regarding 5k rpm: I'm pretty sure that's what I've said in different ways in each of my posts in this topic.
They don't tolerate abuse well, and what we call "brisk riding" on our modern bikes is abuse to our old British bikes.
I've never owned a Norton, but I'm not new to this game. I've heard all the stories told by Norton owners about what goes wrong and how to fix them. And I've owned Royal Enfields for 42 years now. They're more reliable than Nortons in some ways (strongest crankshaft in the business; no roller bearing failures), but they have their own list of problems, most of which can be avoided by treating them gently, same as the Nortons, BSA's, Triumphs.....
We're not fantasizing about riding these bikes across the country, or burning up highway nine with the sprotbiles, we're talking about occasional sunday rides, meetups and vintage events.

 

[littlebeast]

My only agenda is that if someone wants a British bike as much as it sounds like LB does (and also owns a modern bike as a primary ride) I think they should go ahead and buy one.
Now, about that red highlighted text in your quote: I'm pretty sure that's what I've said in different ways in each of my posts in this topic.
They don't tolerate abuse well, and what we call "brisk riding" on our modern bikes is abuse to our old British bikes.
I've never owned a Norton, but I'm not new to this game. I've heard all the stories told by Norton owners about what goes wrong and how to fix them. And I've owned Royal Enfields for 42 years now. They're more reliable than Nortons in some ways (strongest crankshaft in the business; no roller bearing failures), but they have their own list of problems, most of which can be avoided by treating them gently, same as the Nortons, BSA's, Triumphs.....
We're not fantasizing about riding these bikes across the country, or burning up highway nine with the sprotbiles, we're talking about occasional sunday rides, meetups and vintage events.

you get it perfectly babe. that's my goal exactly.

edit - okay, so i will also admit to a strong desire to fondle it in the dark when we are alone - just the two of us.

 

[Carlo]

you get it perfectly babe. that's my goal exactly.

I really don't get the negativity about old bikes that so often comes from people my age.

Yeah, they're nowhere near as reliable, fast, good handling as modern bikes. I get that.
But these same people who swear the old bikes are worthless piles of junk get all nostalgic about the look, the sound blah blah blah....

Ya know what? There's something about riding a well set-up old bike that a modern "retro classic" can't duplicate. You'll know what I mean the first time you ride your new Commando.

Yeah, it's a gamble. You might end up with one of afm199's poor, abused old racebikes. You might decide it's really not for you after all.
But shit, buying a new BMW is also a gamble, based on some of the horror stories I've heard about them.
Seems like some of us have forgotten that life itself is a gamble. Riding motorcycles is a gamble.
Let's all just do what's safe and save ourselves the grief!

 

[louemc]

Let's all just do what's safe and save ourselves the grief!

Doing what is safe...Isn't safe....

To develop a healthy immune, system, Ya need exposure to the bad things
(Yeah the things your parents warned you about) in life.

 

[afm199]

I really don't get the negativity about old bikes that so often comes from people my age.

Yeah, they're nowhere near as reliable, fast, good handling as modern bikes. I get that.
But these same people who swear the old bikes are worthless piles of junk get all nostalgic about the look, the sound blah blah blah....

Ya know what? There's something about riding a well set-up old bike that a modern "retro classic" can't duplicate. You'll know what I mean the first time you ride your new Commando.

Yeah, it's a gamble. You might end up with one of afm199's poor, abused old racebikes. You might decide it's really not for you after all.
But shit, buying a new BMW is also a gamble, based on some of the horror stories I've heard about them.
Seems like some of us have forgotten that life itself is a gamble. Riding motorcycles is a gamble.
Let's all just do what's safe and save ourselves the grief!

A. I owned street and race bikes. They were both problematic. Eric Swortsfigure dominated 650 Twins in the AFM on one, beating bikes twenty years newer for years, that's how bad they handled and what pigs they were.
B. Of course you don't take a long stroke undersquare motor to high rpm. That's how you blow it up. The piston speed on a Norton at 6k rpm is higher than that of a GSXR 600 at 13k rpm.
C. Please quote where I said any old bike is a junk heap. I'd be interested.
D. I love seeing old bikes and admire the people who ride them. (With exceptions )
D. This has nothing to do with being safe or not safe. My entire reason for posting ( and there are others saying the same thing) is to BE AWARE of the possible problems that occur OFTEN with these bikes. These are not outliers or scattered examples. They are endemic.
E. If I had the room and the budget, I'd own one. But I don't and like to ride bikes.
F. Again, you're advocating buying a moto without really discussing the fact that shit often happens to the brand. You basically say: "Buy the right one." Several of us say: "The right one is going to cost you more than a new SV650, will be hard to find, and you will still need mechanical skills."

 

[Carlo]

There are thousands of Norton enthusiasts out there who love their bikes, and put many thousands of miles on them.
We can keep circling around this issue forever. I get what you're saying: They're not for you.
All I'm saying is let LB try it for herself, and find out if they're for her.
I'll reiterate; if she does her homework and shops around, there's a good chance she can find a good one, which has had all the engineering upgrades you've already mentioned.
Nobody's told her it would be cheap. If you buy a Commando, or any other British twin cylinder motorcycle for $5000 today, you're buying a project that will probably cost you more to put right than if you'd bought one already sorted by one of the many experts out there.

A. I owned street and race bikes. They were both problematic. Eric Swortsfigure dominated 650 Twins in the AFM on one, beating bikes twenty years newer for years, that's how bad they handled and what pigs they were.
B. Of course you don't take a long stroke undersquare motor to high rpm. That's how you blow it up. The piston speed on a Norton at 6k rpm is higher than that of a GSXR 600 at 13k rpm.
C. Please quote where I said any old bike is a junk heap. I'd be interested.
D. I love seeing old bikes and admire the people who ride them. (With exceptions )
D. This has nothing to do with being safe or not safe. My entire reason for posting ( and there are others saying the same thing) is to BE AWARE of the possible problems that occur OFTEN with these bikes. These are not outliers or scattered examples. They are endemic.
E. If I had the room and the budget, I'd own one. But I don't and like to ride bikes.
F. Again, you're advocating buying a moto without really discussing the fact that shit often happens to the brand. You basically say: "Buy the right one." Several of us say: "The right one is going to cost you more than a new SV650, will be hard to find, and you will still need mechanical skills."

 

[Carlo]

I have an idea. The INOA is having their 2014 rally in Ashland, OR this year, LB maybe you could ride up and tell folks there that you're interested in getting a Commando. I bet you'll get a lot of pretty good information there.
Including the spectrum from "don't do it, you'll shootcher eye out!" to "why not, what could go wrong?" that we're giving you.

 

[afm199]

There are thousands of Norton enthusiasts out there who love their bikes, and put many thousands of miles on them.
We can keep circling around this issue forever. I get what you're saying: They're not for you.
All I'm saying is let LB try it for herself, and find out if they're for her.
I'll reiterate; if she does her homework and shops around, there's a good chance she can find a good one, which has had all the engineering upgrades you've already mentioned.
Nobody's told her it would be cheap. If you buy a Commando, or any other British twin cylinder motorcycle for $5000 today, you're buying a project that will probably cost you more to put right than if you'd bought one already sorted by one of the many experts out there.

Well actually you put a lot of words in my mouth that weren't there, but I certainly agree. I'm not discouraging LB from buying one, I'm saying that there are issues she should know about. That, to me, seems helpful not discouraging.

 

[ratlab]

I really don't get the negativity about old bikes that so often comes from people my a...

Ya know what? There's something about riding a well set-up old bike that a modern "retro classic" can't duplicate. You'll know what I mean the first time you ride your new Commando.
carlo i agree-i have ridden well sorted bsa,triumph and norton's-they are so much more fun than my super-modded thruxton to ride. i attend all the vintage shows that i can and research bikes and prices. i have a passion for old british bikes, like the op,i can't get norton commando's out of my head.old brit stuff right now is at a premium again and seeing what i can afford, and pricing parts out at places like rabers if i pick one up it's probably going to delay my retirement and then take all my time.you have to be realistic-do you want to ride one right now or have a 1- 5 year project while you slowly collect parts and make the bike reliable.lb i have about 30 lbs. of classic bike magazines i will box up and send you if you want.my wife wants them out of the house-she fears my temptations for old bikes will ruin us.

 

[Carlo]

Inoa classifieds. One bike sounds promising, several are unknowns or unobtaniums, a couple of projects (this is how motorcycling can be a hobby), and a couple that only a true Norton enthusiast should consider.

Or, Walneck's. A couple of Commandos (i'm pretty sure afm199 and I are both in agreement; don 't buy an unrestored Commando, no matter how nice, unless you're looking for a project, or static industrial art)
Or you might consider a Triumph TR6. The best of the 650's in my opinion. Mildly tuned, but still powerful enough to be fun, and one carb, eliminating one of the most annoying headaches of British twins. And I'd be willing to trust a bike that's known to be restored by Baxter Cycle.

 

[Carlo]

Ya carlo i agree-i have ridden well sorted bsa,triumph and norton's-they are so much more fun than my super-modded thruxton to ride. i attend all the vintage shocan and research bikes and prices. i have a passion for old british bikes, like the op,i can't get norton commando's out of my head.old brit stuff right now is at a premium again and seeing what i can afford, and pricing parts out at places like rabers if i pick one up it's probably going to delay my retirement and then take all my time.you have to be realistic-do you want to ride one right now or have a 1- 5 year project while you slowly collect parts and make the bike reliable.lb i have about 30 lbs. of classic bike magazines i will box up and send you if you want.my wife wants them out of the house-she fears my temptations for old bikes will ruin us.

Thanks for the offer, but I have a collection of Classic Bike, The Classic Motorcycle, Classic Racer, and Classic Motorcycle Mechanics dating back to around 1984 or so, when all four were published in Peterbourough, UK on a quarterly schedule.
Vast amounts of valuable information, contributing in no small part to my "half vast" store of knowledge.

 

[russ69]

...and one carb, eliminating one of the most annoying headaches of British twins...

When it's running and has a spark, lol.

 

[corndog67]

One carb? Never had any issues other than self inflicted by overtightening the slide caps. If there is only one carb, go back, you lost one!