Paging all BARF nerds (Programming)

[Chris_BR]

I think that describes the OP! He's using free education through online course. Wants to get into Open Source projects. Shows a desire to learn.

I'm trying! There's just so much info on the interwebz. Hell, trying to figure out how to use BigDecimal today caused some cerebral overload.

and thanks for the github link! it's bookmarked and Ill be paroosing it and dive more into it after finals. I've noticed that most simple fixes on GitHub get solved fairly quickly so I'll make it a habit to check regularly.

Winter is already here. Have a friend in the Bay Area who is saying these "kids" are going into companies CHEAP to get the experience and displacing higher paid programmers. He just had someone displace him for $7/hr (seriously).

I'd take $7/hr or even $0.00 over the $10/hr I make pushing cappuccinos, for the experience alone!

Just an FYI.. if any of you java guys are looking for FTE in pleasanton and know your way around apache CXF, Spring, Jax-RS, shoot me a PM.

I make some mean coffee

 

[slowblood]

Winter is already here. Have a friend in the Bay Area who is saying these "kids" are going into companies CHEAP to get the experience and displacing higher paid programmers. He just had someone displace him for $7/hr (seriously).

My experience is that there are a lot of "programmers" but very few "Engineers". You can be a code hack and do well...but being a lead/cto type requires more than a correspondence course. Also, having seen this, the old adage of "buy cheap get cheap" holds true. Manager types have a hard time with this though.

Sounds like he was producing work worth $6.75/hr.

 

[goodness-707]

I'm trying! There's just so much info on the interwebz. Hell, trying to figure out how to use BigDecimal today caused some cerebral overload.

If you want a little more focused learning, but still want it free and self-paced, Stanford offers it's undergrad intro programming sequence (CS106a, CS106b, CS107) online for free. It's quite good IMO (especially for the price). It focuses on ideas rather than a single language (you'll use Java and C++). I used it with my daughter when she expressed an interest in learning.

The only thing you need that they don't provide is mentorship. It's useful (maybe essential) to have someone who knows what they're doing to review your assignments as you go through it.

http://see.stanford.edu/see/courses.aspx

 

[gnahc79]

Winter is already here. Have a friend in the Bay Area who is saying these "kids" are going into companies CHEAP to get the experience and displacing higher paid programmers. He just had someone displace him for $7/hr (seriously).

My experience is that there are a lot of "programmers" but very few "Engineers". You can be a code hack and do well...but being a lead/cto type requires more than a correspondence course. Also, having seen this, the old adage of "buy cheap get cheap" holds true. Manager types have a hard time with this though.

for 'pure' software companies I don't see any chance of a $7/hr person displacing any development work really. Linkedin, Salesforce, Amazon, etc are all asking for engineers with 5-10+ yrs of relevant experience.
As for the no degree thing. Getting placed at a software company with no college degree is an outlier case. Those folks could get a degree no problem if they wanted to, are very innovative and have already done something to get noticed.

 

[mercurial]

Lazlo Bock is downplaying college degrees but basically every candidate who applies to Google with no tech experience (and even some with experience) is pre-vetted and slotted based on their degree, and almost everyone in general has a degree from a top tier school. If you come with no degree and no experience, good luck. The top tech companies don't have the time to baby these kinds of people, if you can't ramp up quickly you are basically bleeding everyone else's highly valuable time.

 

[Chris_BR]

In the hopes of getting some more insight, here's an update.

Flashback
I started at a community college back in the Fall of 2013. Chugged through the semesters, failed/retook a few courses.

I transferred to ASU's online software engineering undergrad program at the beginning of this year (2016), and I'm surprised to say that school really is teaching me a ton about programming – who woulda thunk?

I'll be a Junior in the Spring (a lot of the courses I took weren't transferrable ), and I applied to a ton of internships here in the bay area. I got a number of HR screens, and a handful of technical screens. My question to barf is:

WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO BE A LOWLY INTERN!?

The question above may be a loaded gun, but I just want to peer into the world of working as a developer so that I can really know if it's what I want to be doing. I would love an internship that pays me very little ($10/hour would be fantastic!), and provides some mentorship.

I want to say that the answer to the question is that interns generally work on products in production so I do understand the need to have someone that knows/can learn how to produce production-grade code (eh). Which leads me to the next question:

What do I need to do/study in order to be successful once I graduate, or even before then?

My schoolwork has been entirely Java-centric, which is great – I enjoy Java – but should I take some time to learn these new languages/frameworks that are always in job descriptions? (Looking at you React).

This post was very poorly thought out and rant-ish.

tl;dr 27 yr old Junior in college (I fucked up ). Didn't land an internship this hiring round (yet), and is overwhelmed by javascript frameworks. Guide him!

 

[Hoho]

In the hopes of getting some more insight, here's an update.

Flashback
I started at a community college back in the Fall of 2013. Chugged through the semesters, failed/retook a few courses.

I transferred to ASU's online software engineering undergrad program at the beginning of this year (2016), and I'm surprised to say that school really is teaching me a ton about programming – who woulda thunk?

I'll be a Junior in the Spring (a lot of the courses I took weren't transferrable ), and I applied to a ton of internships here in the bay area. I got a number of HR screens, and a handful of technical screens. My question to barf is:

WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO BE A LOWLY INTERN!?

The question above may be a loaded gun, but I just want to peer into the world of working as a developer so that I can really know if it's what I want to be doing. I would love an internship that pays me very little ($10/hour would be fantastic!), and provides some mentorship.

I want to say that the answer to the question is that interns generally work on products in production so I do understand the need to have someone that knows/can learn how to produce production-grade code (eh). Which leads me to the next question:

What do I need to do/study in order to be successful once I graduate, or even before then?

My schoolwork has been entirely Java-centric, which is great – I enjoy Java – but should I take some time to learn these new languages/frameworks that are always in job descriptions? (Looking at you React).

This post was very poorly thought out and rant-ish.

tl;dr 27 yr old Junior in college (I fucked up ). Didn't land an internship this hiring round (yet), and is overwhelmed by javascript frameworks. Guide him!

Get some other scripting languages under your belt, like Ruby, Python, or Perl. Right now, most of my recent work is in Java, but prior years, we were using Perl, then more recently Python.

Other framework knowledge helps too, Django (for Python), and PHP both come to mind. Javascript is definitely good to know, node.js with expressjs is an old standby.

Look at getting some mobile applications, and how to code for mobile. Java for Android and Swift 3 or Objective C for iOS.

Landing an internship is dependent on the company. Some companies will want C/C++, some will want scripting like Javascript or the others I've listed.

 

[Chris_BR]

Get some other scripting languages under your belt, like Ruby, Python, or Perl. Right now, most of my recent work is in Java, but prior years, we were using Perl, then more recently Python.

Awesome! I know a bit of python, and have written small scripts in the past, but I really should do more of this. Any recommendations on things I could automate for myself?

Other framework knowledge helps too, Django (for Python), and PHP both come to mind. Javascript is definitely good to know, node.js with expressjs is an old standby.

I've worked with Ember, handlebars, sass, and whatnot and it's great. I've never dabbled in PHP or Django, so I'll put those on my to-try list.

Look at getting some mobile applications, and how to code for mobile. Java for Android and Swift 3 or Objective C for iOS.

I actually did write a simple weather app about 1.5 years ago and I'm planning to write an RSS reader for android. The plan is to make it nice enough to ship to the play store. I've heard that publishing an app is a huge plus on the resume.

Landing an internship is dependent on the company. Some companies will want C/C++, some will want scripting like Javascript or the others I've listed.

I've found this to be true, although all of my technical interviews have always given me a choice of language to use. I do have a course coming up in a semester or two that will be in C++ so I should start doing some pointering.

 

[UDRider]

Well yeah usually interviews will be in whichever language you are comfortable with. That being said that might not be the language company/team uses internally and looking for someone with experience in it.

I think I mentioned this already, but as long as you have fundamentals solid picking up a new language is not that difficult.

 

[m_asim]

C++ is awesome, heathen!

It give you the tools to manufacture gun parts, assemble it, assemble the bullet, put the bullet in to the gun, and then blow your leg off.

In that case, use C. Blow your whole neighborhood off if you don't manage memory properly

 

[Chris_BR]

I think I mentioned this already, but as long as you have fundamentals solid picking up a new language is not that difficult.

You did mention it! And I'm slowly seeing that come to fruition. I took algorithms/dataStructures at my community college, and will see advanced algorithms/dataStructures next semester which hopefully will make me better poised for technical screenings. I also purchased Cracking the Code interview but have yet to start working through it.

Well yeah usually interviews will be in whichever language you are comfortable with. That being said that might not be the language company/team uses internally and looking for someone with experience in it.

For all of you jedi master developers – is the tech stack at a potential employer a huge factor for whether or not you take a position (assuming it's not a huge hurdle like OOP vs. Functional – If that is a huge hurdle)?

 

[Chris_BR]

In that case, use C. Blow your whole neighborhood off if you don't manage memory properly

I've successfully hung myself several times using the git rope. The C/C++ rope appears to be even easier to get entangled in.

 

[Hoho]

Awesome! I know a bit of python, and have written small scripts in the past, but I really should do more of this. Any recommendations on things I could automate for myself?

Look at Chef. DevOps positions are plenty right now. You might be able to land an internship in a DevOps group. While it isn't development per se, it's a great way to get into an IT organization. Plus, the pay is pretty good, or so I hear.

Look into parsing RSS feeds and the like. There's a traffic feed around here somewhere that would be nice to parse out to give you alerts for certain freeways on your commute... then extend that to your weather app too!

I've worked with Ember, handlebars, sass, and whatnot and it's great. I've never dabbled in PHP or Django, so I'll put those on my to-try list.

Just get familiar with them, you don't have to be an ace.

I actually did write a simple weather app about 1.5 years ago and I'm planning to write an RSS reader for android. The plan is to make it nice enough to ship to the play store. I've heard that publishing an app is a huge plus on the resume.

Nice. And yes, having an app in the store is definitely a huge plus when you are looking for an internship, specially for companies that have some form of mobile development going on, or are looking into getting into mobile development. The right internship can lead to a great job straight out of school. Or at least some great bits for ye ole resume.

I'm not sure we we are looking for interns right now, but we should be by next year. I'll ask around and see what I can find out.

 

[Chris_BR]

Look at Chef. DevOps positions are plenty right now. You might be able to land an internship in a DevOps group. While it isn't development per se, it's a great way to get into an IT organization. Plus, the pay is pretty good, or so I hear.

I see DevOps openings often, and I did take a UNIX/Shell scripting class that I enjoyed. What's the day-to-day like for these folks?

Look into parsing RSS feeds and the like. There's a traffic feed around here somewhere that would be nice to parse out to give you alerts for certain freeways on your commute... then extend that to your weather app too!

Awesome idea! I'll roll with it once I jump back on the project.

Just get familiar with them, you don't have to be an ace.

I am an ace at nothing except for procrastination and drinking coffee.

Nice. And yes, having an app in the store is definitely a huge plus when you are looking for an internship, specially for companies that have some form of mobile development going on, or are looking into getting into mobile development. The right internship can lead to a great job straight out of school. Or at least some great bits for ye ole resume.

I'm not sure we we are looking for interns right now, but we should be by next year. I'll ask around and see what I can find out.

Awesome! Let me know if they do have internships next year and I'll be sure to apply!

I really don't care where or with what tools, I really just want to get some experience, because I could be oh so very wrong about this whole thing and end up hating it

 

[NorCalAthlete]

I really don't care where or with what tools, I really just want to get some experience, because I could be oh so very wrong about this whole thing and end up hating it

Hating something doesn't mean you can't get good at it and make fuckloads of money. And over time, come to love something.

For example, I fucking HAAAAAATE running. So I got good at it because the better you are at it the sooner it's over when you have to do it. I ran a 5:04 mile and an 11:14 two-mile when I was in the Army...because otherwise I'd get stuck in traffic trying to get home to shower, eat breakfast, and change. Being just a few minutes faster than everyone else meant 0 traffic and I'd be home by the time everyone finished PT.

 

[gnahc79]

I think I mentioned this already, but as long as you have fundamentals solid picking up a new language is not that difficult.

+1
Within the same group I started with a project in Java, then back to our main product with a really old school language (between assembler and C) for many years and recently C++,docker, and cloud shenanigans.
I'm a team lead now and of the new hires on my team the ones I really like are the ones that can pick up things fast and just run with it. It's fine to ask questions, but you gotta learn most of it yourself as you go.

 

[gnahc79]

also you should try out codefights
https://codefights.com/

I haven't tried it yet, I'm likely too old to do any good up against all of them younger folk .

 

[Chris_BR]

Hating something doesn't mean you can't get good at it and make fuckloads of money. And over time, come to love something.

For example, I fucking HAAAAAATE running. So I got good at it because the better you are at it the sooner it's over when you have to do it. I ran a 5:04 mile and an 11:14 two-mile when I was in the Army...because otherwise I'd get stuck in traffic trying to get home to shower, eat breakfast, and change. Being just a few minutes faster than everyone else meant 0 traffic and I'd be home by the time everyone finished PT.

You're my spirit animal, I hate running too. I guess I might have exaggerated a bit – I really don't mind doing work that I'm not passionate about, it usually takes a bit more of a mental push though. I guess what I meant was that I really just want to experience working with other developers on a day-to-day basis so that I can see what areas i need to beef up on, be them soft skills or 'hard' skills?

I will also start running because my gut is out of control.

+1
Within the same group I started with a project in Java, then back to our main product with a really old school language (between assembler and C) for many years and recently C++,docker, and cloud shenanigans.
I'm a team lead now and of the new hires on my team the ones I really like are the ones that can pick up things fast and just run with it. It's fine to ask questions, but you gotta learn most of it yourself as you go.

That translates to try-fail-try to me and I do it all the time. git reset is my best friend

 

[Hoho]

I see DevOps openings often, and I did take a UNIX/Shell scripting class that I enjoyed. What's the day-to-day like for these folks?

Awesome idea! I'll roll with it once I jump back on the project.

For DevOps, it's mostly deploying updates, keeping things up and running, monitoring servers and preparing for rollouts. At least that's what I did when I did DevOps years ago.

As for your app, let me know how it works.

 

[alemeno214]

For DevOps, it's mostly deploying updates, keeping things up and running, monitoring servers and preparing for rollouts. At least that's what I did when I did DevOps years ago.

I am in DevOps right now, and that's a lot of it. I also write a lot of internal tooling (Python mainly) used by developers and to further automate things.