Purchase experience $$$

[jmann]

Just got off the phone negotiating with sales manager from East Bay Motorsports in Oakland. Didn't like their sales tactics. Pricing the bike very low $4188 http://6396.motorcyclesforless.net/p/20851927/2/11514272/7 , then jacking up the freight and prep. We argued (discussed) for 30 minutes with them telling me to come in and they'd give me an awesome deal. When I asked what would my awesome deal be. The answer was around $6300 OTD. WTF..... I asked how could a bike sold at $4188 be $6300 OTD? They said, because of freight, prep, tax and DMV. Needless to say after 30 minutes of negotiating I'm not buying from them ever. Sales manger says they're selling the R3 for cheap and just charging regular freight and prep, and everyone else charges the same. I asked him how much they normally charge for freight and prep on the R3 or other similar bikes? He said on the R3 regular freight is around $900 and prep is $400. Told him I've already been in their store and know for a fact that freight is not $900. All of the bikes on the floor has freight and prep listed for customers to see. Yes, dealers have to make money, but at least be honest about it. Don't be listing your bikes for $1000 less then try to sucker a customer into paying bogus fees. I would of went in and bought it today if it was really a sale. I have no issue with paying regular freight / prep, just not super inflated ones. So anyone who wants an awesome deal on a R3 of Ninja 300, they've got plenty of each in stock at according to them hugely reduced price.

 

[ratlab]

i did this same rant about a month ago-they sucked me in on that same 4188 nonsense-if you want a R3 go to berkeley or modesto.my wife got one in modesto for 5950.east bay is to be avoided.

 

[jmann]

i did this same rant about a month ago-they sucked me in on that same 4188 nonsense-if you want a R3 go to berkeley or modesto.my wife got one in modesto for 5950.east bay is to be avoided.

Wish all the manufacturers would put a stop to all these deceptive marketing by their dealers. Have a set MSRP and get rid of junk fees. Price the MSRP higher if need be. This way customers know exactly what they will be paying. No matter what lies the dealers tell, there's no way to justify a bike being sold for $4188 coming out to $6300 OTD.

 

[/dev/null]

Registration fees/taxes are easy to calculate on the DMV website;

Transaction Date: August 04, 2015
Type of Calculation: New California Vehicle Purchase

Type of Vehicle: Motorcycle
Model Year: 2015
Motive Power: Gas

Purchase Date: August 04, 2015
Purchase Price: $4,188.00

County: Alameda
City: Hayward
Zip Code: 94541

Current Registration: 43.00
Current California Highway Patrol: 24.00
Current Vehicle License Fee: 27.00
Current Motorcycle Safety Fee: 2.00
Current County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee: 1.00
Current Fingerprint ID Fee: 1.00
Current Auto Theft and/or DUI Crime Deterrence Program: 1.00
Current Abandoned Vehicle Fee: 1.00
Current Air Quality Management District: 6.00
Current County Transportation Projects Fee: 10.00
Alt Fuel/Tech Reg Fee: 3.00
Use/Sales Tax: 398.00
City Vehicle Use/Sales Tax: 21.00
Motorcycle Cross Index: 1.00
Reflectorized License Plate Fee: 1.00

Total Registration Fees: $121.00

Total Use/Sales Tax: $419.00

Grand Total Registration Fees: $540.00

4188 + 540 fees/tax = 4718

I'd be wondering what the additional $1572 is going for.

 

[MidlifeThrottle]

Try calling PCP motorsports in Sacramento if you're willing to do the miles to get here (not affiliated with them). I had the same experience lately and shopped around a lot. I ended up getting my bike OTD lower than MSRP after a little haggling (which you will have to do). They're willing to deal with you.

 

[jmann]

Registration fees/taxes are easy to calculate on the DMV website;

Transaction Date: August 04, 2015
Type of Calculation: New California Vehicle Purchase

Type of Vehicle: Motorcycle
Model Year: 2015
Motive Power: Gas

Purchase Date: August 04, 2015
Purchase Price: $4,188.00

County: Alameda
City: Hayward
Zip Code: 94541

Current Registration: 43.00
Current California Highway Patrol: 24.00
Current Vehicle License Fee: 27.00
Current Motorcycle Safety Fee: 2.00
Current County Service Authority for Freeway Emergencies Fee: 1.00
Current Fingerprint ID Fee: 1.00
Current Auto Theft and/or DUI Crime Deterrence Program: 1.00
Current Abandoned Vehicle Fee: 1.00
Current Air Quality Management District: 6.00
Current County Transportation Projects Fee: 10.00
Alt Fuel/Tech Reg Fee: 3.00
Use/Sales Tax: 398.00
City Vehicle Use/Sales Tax: 21.00
Motorcycle Cross Index: 1.00
Reflectorized License Plate Fee: 1.00

Total Registration Fees: $121.00

Total Use/Sales Tax: $419.00

Grand Total Registration Fees: $540.00

4188 + 540 fees/tax = 4718

I'd be wondering what the additional $1572 is going for.

I did a break down for them and even told them that I didn't mind paying an average freight / prep fee of $500. Their response was everyone charges according to calculations ($1500) for freight / prep. Every bike has those fees. When I mentioned I've been in their store where each bike lists freight of no more then $400, the sales manager became irate and said they're not breaking any laws. It's his job to disclose all the fees.... I guess somehow he felt around $1500 in freight / prep fees was standard business.

 

[Lex Talionis]

I've never been able to understand the whining some guys do about buying vehicles from dealers. Just negotiate the "out the door" price - that's the only figure that matters. Go in asking for this price. Quit whining.

Lex

 

[jmann]

Try calling PCP motorsports in Sacramento if you're willing to do the miles to get here (not affiliated with them). I had the same experience lately and shopped around a lot. I ended up getting my bike OTD lower than MSRP after a little haggling (which you will have to do). They're willing to deal with you.

PCP didn't give me a break on MSRP or fees for the R3 I was looking for, but at least they were honest about it and didn't try to hide bogus fees.

 

[jmann]

I've never been able to understand the whining some guys do about buying vehicles from dealers. Just negotiate the "out the door" price - that's the only figure that matters. Go in asking for this price. Quit whining.

Lex

An extreme example, but you're saying if someone advertised a bike for $50. Yet, when you arrive they say oh by the way, there are $10000 in bogus fees. When you ask about the fees, they say it's what they normally charge and every one has the same fees. When in fact they have freight / prep fees listed for every model inside their own showroom for much less and reasonable amounts. It's a matter of principal. If it's listed for $50, then sell it for $50 and charge reasonable fees.

 

[bcv_west]

An extreme example, but you're saying if someone advertised a bike for $50. Yet, when you arrive they say oh by the way, there are $10000 in bogus fees. When you ask about the fees, they say it's what they normally charge and every one has the same fees. When in fact they have freight / prep fees listed for every model inside their own showroom for much less and reasonable amounts. It's a matter of principal. If it's listed for $50, then sell it for $50 and charge reasonable fees.

I think you mean it's a matter of principle, unless you're talking about a loan amount.

I kind of agree with PP - if you're not negotiating the out-the-door price to begin with, you're doing it wrong, because they'll just tack something on downstream and hope you'll be in deep enough that you'll make the purchase anyway. Arguing with them about their fee structure might feel like standing up for something but it's pretty much fighting a tar baby.

 

[corndog67]

Figure out what the true costs are. See if you can find dealer invoice like on cars and trucks. Add some shit together, come up with a reasonable number, they have to make some money, or they'll go out of business! go in and tell them "This is what I'll pay" and leave your number. And line up your financing yourself or have your cash ready, because my buddy the fleet manager, told me that they get a base interest rate from the bank, and add up to 2 points on top (for the dealer and salesman). I didn't know this until a year or two ago. After buying a shit load of cars, trucks and motorcycles over the years .

Anyway, Lex is correct. No need to whine about it. They won't fuck you if you don't let them. And what they are doing is not illegal. Don't like the deal? Go down the road. It's extremely common to jack the price, jack the setup fees, and Jack the interest if they set up the loan for you.

 

[/dev/null]

This is based on their craiglist ad which doesn't have VIN #'s among other things...ask them to read CVC Section 11713.1. Unlawful acts by holder of dealer’s license. Specifically,

(a) Advertise a specific vehicle for sale without identifying the vehicle by its model, model-year, and either its license number or that portion of the vehicle identification number that distinguishes the vehicle from all other vehicles of the same make, model, and model-year. Model-year is not required to be advertised for current model-year vehicles. Year models are no longer current when ensuing year models are available for purchase at retail in California. An advertisement that offers for sale a class of new vehicles in a dealer’s inventory, consisting of five or more vehicles, that are all of the same make, model, and model-year is not required to include in the advertisement the vehicle identification numbers or license numbers of those vehicles.

and

(b) Advertise the total price of a vehicle without including all costs to the purchaser at time of sale, except taxes, vehicle registration fees, the California tire fee, as defined in Section 42885 of the Public Resources Code, emission testing charges not exceeding fifty dollars ($50), actual fees charged for certificates pursuant to Section 44060 of the Health and Safety Code, finance charges, and any dealer document processing charge or charge to electronically register or transfer the vehicle.
(c)
(1) Exclude from an advertisement of a vehicle for sale that there will be added to the advertised total price at the time of sale, charges for sales tax, vehicle registration fees, the California tire fee, the fee charged by the state for the issuance of a certificate of compliance or noncompliance pursuant to a statute, finance charges, a charge to electronically register or transfer the vehicle, and a dealer document processing charge.
(2) The obligations imposed by paragraph (1) are satisfied by adding to the advertisement a statement containing no abbreviations and that is worded in substantially the following form: “Plus government fees and taxes, any finance charges, any dealer document processing charge, any electronic filing charge, and any emission testing charge.”
(3) For purposes of paragraph (1), “advertisement” means an advertisement in a newspaper, magazine, or direct mail publication that is two or more columns in width or one column in width and more than seven inches in length, or on a Web page of a dealer’s Internet Web site that displays the price of a vehicle offered for sale on the Internet, as that term is defined in paragraph (6) of subdivision (f) of Section 17538 of the Business and Professions Code.

Then I'd politely ask them to sell you the R3 at a reasonable price or you're going to write some letters - Alameda County DA and CHP among others.

 

[Angel-be-Good]

Had a similar experience this past weekend. Dealer selling a "new" 2014 model of a bike, listed price in advertisements (their webite, Craigslist) at $5600. Reached out for an OTD price and they want $7000. Yes, on a 2014 model.

I wonder if it's a tactic to keep their MSRP looking competitive with used bike prices. For the same bike, people are selling lightly-used models for $5000-5500, but after tax and registration they come out roughly $900-1500 cheaper than "new" old stock.

 

[RightCoastBias]

Since when is East Bay Motorsports in Oakland?

 

[MikeGyver]

Costco?

 

[catch2otwo]

Ive had a pleasant experience with Yamaha Berkeley. Went in, sat down with the lady, 10 minutes had a reasonable out the door pricing on a fz09. Ended up buying a different bike but I appreciated their no bs way of doing business. If I were in the market for a yamaha, I would revisit them again.

Some dealers want to play games, some are genuinely good businesses.

 

[jmann]

I think you mean it's a matter of principle, unless you're talking about a loan amount.

I kind of agree with PP - if you're not negotiating the out-the-door price to begin with, you're doing it wrong, because they'll just tack something on downstream and hope you'll be in deep enough that you'll make the purchase anyway. Arguing with them about their fee structure might feel like standing up for something but it's pretty much fighting a tar baby.

This is my 6th new bike purchase. I'm well versed on all of the freight, prep, and other fees. Most of which I'm okay with paying. I'm also a very easy going customer, who won't fight for the last dollar. All of my previous purchases bike / cars have been OTD pricing without much hassle. But, in order to get OTD pricing would you agree that you need a starting sales price? In this situation East Bay Motorsports stated a super sale with price of $4188. I did my calculations before calling them and offered $5200 OTD. Which based on my calculations left around $500 for freight / prep. The salesman and later his manager responded as if I was insulting them with a low offer. Then promptly tried to explain to me why each bike they sell and every other dealer sells must have $1500 in added fees. Saying they could not go lower then $6200 and even at that price they were losing money on each and every single sale. If they listed the bike at $4999 then I would of been fine paying $6000 OTD. Yes, it's a matter of principle.

 

[jmann]

Since when is East Bay Motorsports in Oakland?

Sorry, they're in Hayward, CA. They just claim to represent Oakland and the whole East Bay.

 

[Roadstergal]

I remember the time when I went to buy a bike from EBM - they agreed over the phone to match another dealer's OTD price on a bike EBM had on the floor in red, which the other dealer only had in blue. Go in, and they try to jack up the price 'because it's red.' Yep, they're a bit disingenuous.

 

[-Gilly-]

Costco?

This. It really worked out for me on my 2014 Ninja 1000.