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Rain racing?
- Thread starter rob linders
- Start date
LongGoneJohn
Gone
Considering how we had short turnouts (because of one reason or another) when it was sunny and warm, I don't think it'd be good.
afm199
Well-known member
Considering how we had short turnouts (because of one reason or another) when it was sunny and warm, I don't think it'd be good.
Yep.
Not sure how many guys here have to pull bikes out of mud regularly, but after two or three you are exhausted.......Basically you have to pick up the bike and carry it out of the mud while you are slipping around trying to keep from falling down.
It's always concerning when you try to engineer to the exception. In this case, rainouts are the exception. Prior to last year, I can only remember one other rain out day, and that was at Infineon around 2004, so it becomes a bit of a moot point.
What I've always heard, and it may be a rumor, is that the tire vendors did not want to stock rain tires for a club the size of the AFM when it would only rain on a race day once every five years as it was a logistical nightmare.
I've run the rain in WSMC a while back and they were much better equipped for rain races, partly due to the smaller grids and in no small part due to the logistics of racing the same track every month. Rain tires were readily available and the little recovery truck could get to any area of the track with shocking speed.
What I've always heard, and it may be a rumor, is that the tire vendors did not want to stock rain tires for a club the size of the AFM when it would only rain on a race day once every five years as it was a logistical nightmare.
I've run the rain in WSMC a while back and they were much better equipped for rain races, partly due to the smaller grids and in no small part due to the logistics of racing the same track every month. Rain tires were readily available and the little recovery truck could get to any area of the track with shocking speed.
ZIM
Truth is Subjective
The AFM should pick up a used 4x4 with a picker in the bed. Put some soft straps on that beast and there is your bike puller
Shit, skip the extra truck and just get a flatbed trailer with a ramp, mount a wench to the front of it to drag bikes right onto the ramp or at least to the edge of the track for easier pickup. Wouldn't cost the club more than a $2000 for a real nice set up.
I have done corner working in the rain and it sucks so I think there should be a little payout for those weekends to the corner workers who do show up.
Shit, skip the extra truck and just get a flatbed trailer with a ramp, mount a wench to the front of it to drag bikes right onto the ramp or at least to the edge of the track for easier pickup. Wouldn't cost the club more than a $2000 for a real nice set up.
I have done corner working in the rain and it sucks so I think there should be a little payout for those weekends to the corner workers who do show up.
Not really.
There were many times where it was supposed to rain but did not and races were held.
Burning1
I'm scareoused!
The AFM should pick up a used 4x4 with a picker in the bed. Put some soft straps on that beast and there is your bike puller
Shit, skip the extra truck and just get a flatbed trailer with a ramp, mount a wench to the front of it to drag bikes right onto the ramp or at least to the edge of the track for easier pickup. Wouldn't cost the club more than a $2000 for a real nice set up.
I have done corner working in the rain and it sucks so I think there should be a little payout for those weekends to the corner workers who do show up.
Can't run a truck on a hot track - way too much of an issue to have it in an impact in a safety zone. Not sure what the policy is on red-flagging a race to pickup a bike, but in the dry I've seen workers on the track it's self to clear a wreck, without throwing a red flag.
rob linders
Active member
I think a better question is how many races were cancelled and not made up on the same weekend. We missed races at Buttonwillow and Thunderhill this past year. Buttonwillow was close enough it wasn't that painful and we got one race in. However, we didn't get a bunch of other races that weekend. Everyone at Thunderhill remembers standing around all day Saturday and then feeling like we might get something in on Sunday, but to no avail.
You keep assigning blame and telling other people what they should worry about. I know what I need to worry about with my sponsors, my budget and my family commitments, you do not. I can tell you that wasting $400 in fuel, plus food, plus missing work is something I entirely do have to worry about. I only have so much money to spend and blowing it without getting anything in return is a problem for our race program. That is why I would be ok with AFM staying in the "not race in the rain bubble", I think it would help me and others if they just made the call on any suspect weekends and cancelled. Unfortunately, that still screws the tire and food vendors, but at least less people loose out.
That is what I was told by someone from AFM. I asked Dunlop and Pirelli and they said they would be happy to bring enough tires to cover the racers.
rob linders
Active member
I have done corner working in the rain and it sucks so I think there should be a little payout for those weekends to the corner workers who do show up.
I agree with the huge revenue you would get by actually paying to race in the rain, vs. no revenue like Thunderhill, we could pay the corner workers. If they weren't getting paid before, they will actually start praying for rain races. Nothing like $200 warming your pocket to the idea.
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afmotorsports
New member
It's definitely the off-season so let's have another rain racing debate in sunny California!
I've said it several times that it was indeed a 'logistical nightmare' for more than one reason:
1. Equipment: only 5-6 tire machines between all the vendors would make tire changes impossible for all the AFM racers as the weather changes throughout the day (keep in mind that if it's pouring all day and there's standing water then we don't race anyway, so realistically you're only racing in on/off rain conditions so even if we had rain tires, we could not have raced at Buttonwillow in March due to standing water!)
2. Inventory: difficult or impossible to source rain tires for some bikes (125s, 250s, 16.5 wheels, etc.)
3. Transportation: most tire vendor rigs are not really set up to bring a full supply of tires for both wet and dry conditions for all their customers
Given those factors, the only realistic scenario for the AFM to approve racing in the rain would be if the vast majority of AFM racers keep a complete second set of wheels with rain tires mounted. At a minimum that would add another $1,000 to the cost of a season of racing. Keep in mind that there is already a significant number of racers who rent their AMB transponder because in many cases they just can't afford to buy one!
The more 'barriers to entry' you put up, the harder it is for people to start (or continue) racing with the AFM. Can you imagine how many people would quit racing with the club if we 'required' everybody to buy a Honda EU2000 generator and tire warmers? Well, the cost of a second set of wheels with rain tires mounted is roughly the same.
btw, I don't think there's anything so dangerous about racing in the rain and I've done it myself a few times (Portland, Willow Springs, Road Atlanta). At least all those racers in areas where it rains with regularity have a reasonable probability of using their 'investment' in rain racing equipment. For AFM racers, rain racing gear would be like dragging a very expensive boat anchor... and the tires would have to be discarded after 4-5 years.
RedMist
quiter
I understand the opinion of those who wish to race that those who don't should just not race then but that effects our place in the club just as much as us not racing in the rain effects you guys.
At the very least if the club decides to race in the rain those rounds should be none scoring so those racers that value their lifes over increased danger don't have to pay in points for our normal sense of self preservation.
My opinion and others who feel that we should not race in the rain are just as valuable as those who feel the opposite. Further more the right to inflict a persons personal opinion on others here on BARF is not the right of one of us but all and everyones opinion is just as worthless as the next or as meaningful depending on the respect we show eachother while discussing things that matter to all of us.
At the very least if the club decides to race in the rain those rounds should be none scoring so those racers that value their lifes over increased danger don't have to pay in points for our normal sense of self preservation.
My opinion and others who feel that we should not race in the rain are just as valuable as those who feel the opposite. Further more the right to inflict a persons personal opinion on others here on BARF is not the right of one of us but all and everyones opinion is just as worthless as the next or as meaningful depending on the respect we show eachother while discussing things that matter to all of us.
afmotorsports
New member
The rain at Thunderhill wasn't so bad and if everybody had rain racing equipment and the AFM allowed it, we probably could've raced on Sunday (although you would be doing tire swaps in the afternoon). That's probably the one event I can remember in the past 20 years where it would've made a difference for the AFM to race in the rain. One event out of close to 200 I've attended!
Were you there on Sunday at Buttonwillow?? There is no fricken way we could've raced motorcycles in that downpour! NO WAY!! So even the guys who travelled 15 hours from Portland would've been screwed because the track wasn't raceable with that much standing water.
Traveling for the races if often a 'risk' because we don't always know how the weather turns out. Funny thing, I think most people still had a blast at both Thunderhill and Buttonwillow because a vast majority of the time at the track is not spent racing, it is spent socializing with our friends in the pits. A lot of us still had fun in the pits even if we didn't get to race...
I wonder how wera (and all others) does it, even with all sprint and endurance races going on same weekend. I raced in VIR and we crashed 3 times in same race, in fact most teams crashed twice and race was still on to the endIt's definitely the off-season so let's have another rain racing debate in sunny California!
I've said it several times that it was indeed a 'logistical nightmare' for more than one reason:
1. Equipment: only 5-6 tire machines between all the vendors would make tire changes impossible for all the AFM racers as the weather changes throughout the day (keep in mind that if it's pouring all day and there's standing water then we don't race anyway, so realistically you're only racing in on/off rain conditions so even if we had rain tires, we could not have raced at Buttonwillow in March due to standing water!)
2. Inventory: difficult or impossible to source rain tires for some bikes (125s, 250s, 16.5 wheels, etc.)
3. Transportation: most tire vendor rigs are not really set up to bring a full supply of tires for both wet and dry conditions for all their customers
.Shit, I raced in rain before there was any speakers around track, back in the days you actually had to pay attention when your race is starting, rain or not.
ZXR400SP
New member
Didn't ,we have this conversation 4/5 months ago?
afmotorsports
New member
I wonder how wera (and all others) does it, even with all sprint and endurance races going on same weekend. I raced in VIR and we crashed 3 times in same race, in fact most teams crashed twice and race was still on to the end
Shit, I raced in rain before there was any speakers around track, back in the days you actually had to pay attention when your race is starting, rain or not.
Didn't WERA cancel a bunch of races last year at Buttonwillow due to rain and the fact that the vendors packed up and left?? I didn't say it can't be done - obviously it can! - but it is a logistical nightmare with a larger club (compared to WERA) and it's a bad investment for the racers to tie up all that money in equipment they have a 1-2% chance of using in AFM racing.
For the WMRRA and OMRRA racers, I'm pretty sure rain gear is a requirement or they wouldn't race half the time, sometimes more than half the time! AFM is a different story due to the tracks we race and how rare we encounter rain.
afmotorsports
New member
Yes: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372364&highlight=rain
It comes up at least once every year. Conversations about snow tires and chains would be more relevant since at least the Reno guys occasionally encounter snow coming over the mountains... and that happens a lot more often than rain at Thunderhill and Buttonwillow, just ask Z-man about his Benz...
Because it was bad condition. Didn't afm also run half of races on rainy day.
While I did total my car in snow trying to get there some guys still raced.
I raced at street of willows in pouring rain and all races were going on until hail started falling down. AFM policy is one drop of rain and no racing, which is different than rain racing other clubs have. Last t-hill was race able under other club standards.
It only appears that way
250 thing is not over and will take 2-3 years to close case
. It is the way AFM operates.