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Ride Magazine One-Piece Leathers Performance Test

hoax said:
Geez, I've been saying for years that AlpineStar quality sucks on all the AlpineStar gear threads I find. Nice to finally have some proof, maybe people will listen now.

well, you've been wrong for years too....

alpinestars changed manufacturing plants a couple of years ago to address quality issues and now has been an improvement....

the latest entry level stuff , like the TZ1, Stunt, V4, and the Dyno is targeted towards those with a budget range but still a well designed jacket and held up when needed.....

the mid level stuff is pretty new as well which the Venom, SMX, and P1 is pretty innovative and well made and had testaments from those who crashed in them swear by em....

The Venom jacket is pretty fucking nice and well thought out if you haven't seen one before....but the graphic is a something of desire...

the highend stuff, like the SMX and SX and the new S-moto stuff survive many crashes on the road and track....

now how a suit is tested varies whereas Ive even seen Helimot/Zooni/Vanson/ZCustoms burst a seam or 2 on the track and even on the road costing $$$ more than an off the rack gear...

so to be fair, you can't compare something like my old alpinestars like what's out and available today and say they suck....
 
I don't think any one is carrying the stuff and it doesn't seem they make suits any more. Their web site actually points to Alpinestars gear.

RoadRider was blowing out what last inventory they had at Laguna Seca for pennies a pound- it's that good...

Joe
 
Re: Re: Ride Magazine One-Piece Leathers Performance Test

motostrano said:
"absolutely nothing to do with performance" is quite an exageration.

i read the article thought it was pretty lame and the test results likely biased towards their advertisers, being a UK magazine. to say that Gericke's tribal suit is some how equivelent to the Race Replica suit is like saying a GB500 is the same as an RC51. you can have fun both and they both have 2 wheels and go, but there are plenty of features that justify the more expensive price.

look at what the article compared, firstly. they took alpinestars top of the line suit and compared it to others bottom of the line or mid tier suits. the atars suit comes wiith a full race back protector and kidney belt. the Gericke, a foam pad.

the astars race suit is fully perforated, more for extreme rider comfort, vs. pure protection. the astars air hump actually vents thru air channels all the way down to the riders legs.

all suits are not created equal and this article is more like an ad campaign for british suit companies.

joe

You gotta love it when the dealers get involved in these discussions.

They aren't just saying the Gerricke suit was equivalent, it was proven through proper testing of the materials to be more protective, that's the difference. There is no differnece of opinion or subjective analysis, it simply performed as well or better in the areas that count. Stuff a $125 Tech protector in your Gericke and your $1500 bucks in the clear.

Funny thing is, who wants to bet that Astars or Dainese have more than one full-pager in that mag every month, and BKS, Dannisport, and Carrrera don't have even have a quarter page. The German Gericke and the despised French Bering suit only slightly trailed in performenace to the top finishers, and were given high marks in the subjective areas of the test as well.

Fact is that each of those top three have proven their worth with CE type-approval previous to this similar test for their whole suit, not just the mandatory protectors. It sucks to fall for hype and realize you're paying to be advertised to, instead of the protective qualities you expect.
 
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Re: Re: Ride Magazine One-Piece Leathers Performance Test

motostrano said:
to say that Gericke's tribal suit is some how equivelent to the Race Replica suit
It isn't equivalent. The race replica suit looks a lot better, and the quality of finish is higher. But you pay over the odds for race replica stuff because its cool. Same goes for helmets, bikes etc. But I wouldn't assume it gives better protection just because it looks like a moto-gp outfit.

motostrano said:
test results likely biased towards their advertisers
If you look through a copy of Performance Bikes, Dainese and A* are featured significantly more than any other brand, both with their own adverts and dealers ads.
 
license2ill,

to me you sound a little tainted. it's not so black n white and i don't have time here to write an essay on the topic, but no, sticking in a back protector doesn't get any one in the clear. my advice would be to not believe all that you read. if you like the cheap stuff, buy it and be proud, but you get what you pay for in this ol' world- ancient chinese secret.

joe
 
motostrano said:
license2ill,

to me you sound a little tainted. it's not so black n white and i don't have time here to write an essay on the topic, but no, sticking in a back protector doesn't get any one in the clear. my advice would be to not believe all that you read. if you like the cheap stuff, buy it and be proud, but you get what you pay for in this ol' world- ancient chinese secret.

joe

This test showed that you do get what you pay for, its just that in the case of BKS, Carrera, and Dannisport, you get substance over marketing hype.

the differences you stated as meaningful were dealt with in this test, and the mostly subjective criteria that is upposedly more importnat the the objective criteria were straight-forwardly analyzed. None of those suits suffered a low score for subjective criteria.

Tainted, who is the one selling this stuff? Better advice would be, don't believe everything you read or hear from a salesman.
 
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Hey all, this is a good discussion for me as well as I have a two-piece suit now and am looking at a 1-piece for trackday/racing use in '05. How do Zooni suits match up in your opinions? The Helimot suits look great but the price is a bit much for my budget (more than $2k right?). I know, protection doesn't come cheap and so I shouldn't skimp there, I don't plan to. It's just that a Zooni suit, custom fit and designed comes in at under $2k, am I losing/gaining anything significant with them over these other brands?

As far as the quality of the test debate goes, I agree that in general _any_ product comparison needs to be read with care, whether it's this one or otherwise. At least that way folks know how the testing was done and can thus draw their own conclusions. I'm puzzled everytime I hear someone say "well such-and-such mag gave my <insert product name> the highest rating" and I ask "really, how was it compared to other products?" and the answer is usually "I don't know".
 
I'd wouldn't mind a custom leather suit made by Helimot/Zooni/ZCustom/Vanson/Kushitani etc but off the rack stuff fits my needs, my budget, and available on the spot....

If you can afford custom suits go for it cuz overall and in the long run, you'll be better off....

Love,

Martha V4 Stewart....
 
Is there a store that has a large majority of these suits in the bay area? I was just at Road Rider in San Jose a couple weeks ago and put an A* TZ-1 2 piece suit on hold. (broke college student) I tried it on and it fit well... There weren't many other suits for me to try on though. Most of their 2 pieces were Dainese or A* and Dainese is WAYYY too expensive for me.

However, I would like to try on some cheaper alternatives if they can afford me the same... if not better protection than a more expensively priced brand.

Any recommendations?
 
license2ill said:
This test showed that you do get what you pay for, its just that in the case of BKS, Carrera, and Dannisport, you get substance over marketing hype.

the differences you stated as meaningful were dealt with in this test, and the mostly subjective criteria that is upposedly more importnat the the objective criteria were straight-forwardly analyzed. None of those suits suffered a low score for subjective criteria.

Tainted, who is the one selling this stuff? Better advice would be, don't believe everything you read or hear from a salesman.

http://www.600rr.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20558&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Why are you so hellbent on giving trustworthy retailers a chance? They live and breath this stuff and I don't think Joe is in it for the money.

The profit margin is negligable when it comes to selling different types of suits, so money is really not an issue when it comes to recommending gear.

I think you're just trying to reassure yourself that you've provided "objective" material for us to read. Guess what? Nothing is objective when it's printed in a magazine...in fact, the only thing that is objective in this world is life and death :)wtf).

Anyway, I think you should stop trying to prove retailers like Motostrano, Riders Inc., etc. wrong, because they obviously know more than you. Just because you read some stupid article in some stupid UK magazine doesn't mean shit.

For all we know, these tests might have been two drunk bums with a pair of scissors trying to fight over who gets to eat the piece of cow hide.
 
slo1 said:
Is there a store that has a large majority of these suits in the bay area? I was just at Road Rider in San Jose a couple weeks ago and put an A* TZ-1 2 piece suit on hold. (broke college student) I tried it on and it fit well... There weren't many other suits for me to try on though. Most of their 2 pieces were Dainese or A* and Dainese is WAYYY too expensive for me.

However, I would like to try on some cheaper alternatives if they can afford me the same... if not better protection than a more expensively priced brand.

Any recommendations?

what price range are you looking at..?


around $500-$600 or so...

SHIFT

MotoGP

Fieldsheer

AGV

but I'd get the Alpinestars over all the others mentioned...
 
V4 said:
what price range are you looking at..?


around $500-$600 or so...

SHIFT

MotoGP

Fieldsheer

AGV

but I'd get the Alpinestars over all the others mentioned...

Me too, just because of you...:love
 
Kensaku said:
Me too, just because of you...:love

:blush

wait next spring, mang....

there's gonna even be more alpinestars stuff coming out besides the Spinner, Ice, and 101 that's new & out now....

and its NOT anything of the old stuff ...

;)
 
Kensaku said:
http://www.600rr.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20558&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Why are you so hellbent on giving trustworthy retailers a chance? They live and breath this stuff and I don't think Joe is in it for the money.

The profit margin is negligable when it comes to selling different types of suits, so money is really not an issue when it comes to recommending gear.

I think you're just trying to reassure yourself that you've provided "objective" material for us to read. Guess what? Nothing is objective when it's printed in a magazine...in fact, the only thing that is objective in this world is life and death :)wtf).

Anyway, I think you should stop trying to prove retailers like Motostrano, Riders Inc., etc. wrong, because they obviously know more than you. Just because you read some stupid article in some stupid UK magazine doesn't mean shit.

For all we know, these tests might have been two drunk bums with a pair of scissors trying to fight over who gets to eat the piece of cow hide.

So you don't think that asking questions about where and what our money is going to is a good idea? How about when it invloves a safety-related product?

I think its important to be fully informed about these purchases, which we are not even close to being currently. The manufacturers and delaers understand htis, and exploit it regularly.

They may be well-intentioned, but that doesn't mean they are right, or well-educated outside of their individual experiences. If you read any responses from a dealer, or any literature from a manufacturer, the majority of it focuses on this limited viewpoint.

It's about time others jump in and critically analyze their safety equipment purchases with more credible evidence than what we are currently being provided by these people that consider themselves experts and asking more relevant questions that seek credibilty.
 
license2ill said:
So you don't think that asking questions about where and what our money is going to is a good idea? How about when it invloves a safety-related product?

I think its important to be fully informed about these purchases, which we are not even close to being currently. The manufacturers and delaers understand htis, and exploit it regularly.

They may be well-intentioned, but that doesn't mean they are right, or well-educated outside of their individual experiences. If you read any responses from a dealer, or any literature from a manufacturer, the majority of it focuses on this limited viewpoint.

It's about time others jump in and critically analyze their safety equipment purchases with more credible evidence than what we are currently being provided by these people that consider themselves experts and asking more relevant questions that seek credibilty.

I don't disagree with you about being informed about purchases and whatnot.

However, this review still sucks. It doesn't talk about customer support and real-world results (which A LOT more important than some guy rubbing leather up against a belt sander).

It appears that Dainese and Alpinestars has one of the best reputations (for an off-the-rack product) when it comes to customer support and real-world crash results. You should post a poll in the Racers section of BARF and see who wears what brand. I can guarantee you there won't be many people who wear a HG suit.
 
Alpinestars Factory Tour




Alpinestars Technical Innovation


Alpinestars has been a leading force in product development for motorcycling and motorsports for over 40 years, recognizing that the best design and research is achieved under extreme conditions

2003-astar-Tech_lab01-zoom.jpg


Competing at the world level and actively supporting top racers in Moto GP, World Superbike, Motocross, Formula 1 and the World Rally Championship has allowed Alpinestars to improve the protection and durability of all its products and enabled the manufacturing of high quality and innovative apparel which offers both comfort, functionality and safety.
2003-astar-Tech_lab03-zoom.jpg


From the racetrack to the customer, Alpinestars is continually researching new materials and techniques to improve its products. Considerable investment has been made in technology to test and develop new ideas, ensuring that the production of Alpinestars products is maintained at the rigorously high standards the company has set for itself.

The company has research and development facilities in Asolo (Italy) and Los Angeles (California) including an in-house testing laboratory, providing its technicians with state of the art facilities to analyze material construction, strength and flexibility across a wide range of parameters. The laboratory also provides a prototype testing facility for measuring the durability of production specification models under controlled conditions, giving the ability to simulate the life of any product against rigorous criteria, usually far in excess of normal wear and tear. This data is then added to the experience gained through thousands of miles of road testing and under the most extreme conditions at the racetrack.

The laboratory is equipped with an array of high tech purpose built machines, which record test data and provide feedback from a variety of test procedures. Results from these tests are fed into the company's product design and production processes to ensure that the finished items perform to Alpinestars' exacting standards.

2003-astar-Tech_lab02-zoom.jpg


To provide an overview of the test capabilities within Alpinestars' laboratory, here follows a profile for the machines that are present in the lab at this time (September 2002) and the test functions that they fulfill.


ALPINESTARS LABORATORY TECHNOLOGY
U.V.A. EXPOSURE TEST

Tests material aging and color resistance after accelerated exposure to the sun. Materials are placed in the solar box, which is capable of simulating one year of sun exposure over a 24-hour period.

2003-astar-UVAexptest-zoom.jpg


MARTINDALE


Tests material abrasion resistance, allowing for comparisons of differing materials under identical stress circumstances. Materials are tested for 3000 cycles or more under a load of 500 gms and analyzed against a set of performance benchmarks.

2003-astar-Martindale-zoom.jpg


DYNAMOMETER


Performs compression and tensile strength tests on materials, stitching, bonding and seams. Data is collected on load and elongation limits and fed into a computer which tracks the mechanical characteristics of the material to ensure that defined minimum performance standards are met and exceeded.

2003-astar-Dynamometer-zoom.jpg


STEREOMICROSCOPE
 
Analyzes material characteristics, in order to evaluate performance and consistency. Magnifies up to 540X to verify the quality of materials, displaying real time data via a computer of the surface properties.

2003-astar-Stereomic-zoom.jpg


WALKMETER


Tests boots and shoes for structural integrity and durability. Products are subjected to 100,000 cycles or more, (equivalent to 200+ kms) with varying body weight, stride patterns and surface conditions.

2003-astar-Walkmeter-zoom.jpg


CLIMATIC CHAMBER


Tests material resistance to accelerated aging and extreme climatic conditions. Products are placed in the chamber, which is capable of simulating 5 years of exposure in just 1 week, with temperatures ranging from -20( c to 120( c and humidity levels of 0-99%. Having been subjected to a range of extreme conditions, the products are then put through additional tests for resistance and tensile performance.

2003-astar-Climatic-zoom.jpg


DEFLECTOMETER


Tests material resistance to cyclical flexion. Materials are subjected to 60,000 cycles or more for verification of quality against a fixed set of standards.

2003-astar-Deflect-zoom.jpg


IMPACT TEST MACHINE


Performs impact tests and accurately measures energy absorption and transmission. CE prEN standards define minimum impact standards for protective materials and Alpinestars tests all its protective products by subjecting them to controlled impacts and recording the shock absorption and resistance capabilities.

2003-astar-ImpactTest-zoom.jpg


CENTRIFUGAL IMPERMEABILITY TEST MACHINE


Tests the impermeability of Gore-Tex/Drystar boots and shoes. Products are placed in a sealed chamber with a measured volume of water, and then rotated at 250 cycles per minute (equivalent to 37g) for 30 minutes. Once completed, the products are examined for any signs of material permeability.

2003-astar-Centrifugal-zoom.jpg


FIREPROOF TEST


Tests the aramidic fibers used in the construction of F1 and World Rally shoes, gloves and suits for resistance to fire and transmission of heat. Materials must meet FIA Homologation rules, which specify strict limits for both heat transfer and flame retardation over a standard set of time parameters.

2003-astar-Fireproof-zoom.jpg


SEAM TEST


Performs impermeability test on the seams of Gore-Tex booties and gloves. Seams are subjected to 1 bar of water pressure and checked for signs of water escape. This test ensures that the seams on all Alpinestars wet weather apparel are as waterproof as the materials themselves.

2003-astar-Seamtest-zoom.jpg
 
BOOTIE TEST


Tests the impermeability of Gore-Tex booties and gloves. Products are filled with 1 bar of compressed air (equivalent to a depth of 100 meters) and then lowered into a tank of water and examined for any signs of escaping air. Air molecules are much smaller than water molecules, therefore this test provides a superior method with which to test material impermeability.

2003-astar-Bootie-zoom.jpg


ABRASION TEST


Performs test on material abrasion resistance. Materials are placed under a load of 1000 gms and then run over an abrasive compound for a distance of 40 meters. The materials are then checked for weight and density loss, which allows Alpinestars technicians to specify the best materials for specific applications, whether it's the protective plastic shell on a motocross boot or the vibration reducing sole on a touring boot.

2003-astar-Abrasion-zoom.jpg


DUROMETER


Measures the quality and hardness of plastic and rubber materials. By concentrating a 1000 grm load on rubber products and a 5000 grm of load on plastic products through a needle point, the properties of the materials can be tested for specific applications across the full range of Alpinestars product line.

2003-astar-Durometer-zoom.jpg


SOLE ABRASION TEST


Tests the abrasion resistance of motorcycle boots. A defined load is placed on the sole and regulated to simulate the rider's body weight as it reacts to the footpeg under varying conditions. In a typical test, the surface of the sole will complete 8,000 cycles, (equivalent to 40 hours of usage) which allows Alpinestars to determine the wear rate of soles under extreme conditions and accurately fine tune the best compounds for each specific boot.

2003-astar-Soleabras-zoom.jpg


Now ask yourself if those other companies put their products thru this kind of inhouse testing. Before they bring their products to market. Knowing full well they have your life in the palm of their marketing dept. I'm not going to argue as to who or what company is better just wanted to show you the inhouse testing A* does before it brings out a product.
 
More info to think about:

A.S.T. Project heralds new age - Increasing rider safety

Advanced Safety Technology suit.

Alpinestars is once again leading the way in developing rider safety. Having pioneered countless innovations in boots, suits and gloves, notably the development of external protection on road race boots in the early 80’s and more recently employing the philosophy on its leather suits, they are now introducing a new dimension into race suit technology – a fully autonomous, multiple field data acquisition system. The Advanced Safety Technology suit (AST).

Fitting telemetry and acquiring data from race bikes and cars has been common practice for some years, however, acquiring data directly from the body of the rider/driver has not and Alpinestars is developing technology to allow technicians the ability to analyse the gravitational and impact forces, as well as the physiological effects experienced by a human when pushing the limits of a high performance race machine.

During the weekend of the German Grand Prix at the Sachsenring, MotoGP rider John Hopkins wore a leather suit equipped with the new A.S.T. system. Although indistinguishable from his usual race suit, John’s body was constantly monitored by a series of accelerometers, impact and physiological sensors.

The impact sensors are mounted on both external and internal surfaces of the suits protectors to measure the loads sustained and absorbed in a fall, without impeding or endangering the rider in any way. The sensors record the maximum impact value subjected to the rider, providing real situation data, above and beyond the test simulations currently conducted in the Alpinestars laboratory.

The custom data processor and solid-state memory, encased in an impact resistant structure and hidden in the back hump on John’s suit, acquire data throughout each session which can be downloaded immediately into a laptop plugged into a connector on the suit. The information can then be studied to analyse pressure point values, lateral G loads experienced, the rider’s pulse and the suit’s cooling performance.

The benefit of developing such technology is the tremendous amount of information that can be gathered about the stresses borne by a rider and the performance of safety equipment during a race and in the event of a fall. Alpinestars’ goal is to develop the technology to measure all the dimensional forces at work upon a rider and to allow greater understanding of material performance thereby improving safety both on the racetrack and ultimately on the road.

ast1.gif


hopkinssuit.jpg


hopkinskneesensor.jpg


astshoulder.gif


astshoulder.gif




Now please ask yourself if other manufactures do this kind of field work/ testing or real life humans or just on a machine?
 
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