S1000RR... being ridden by press in Portugal

[Busy Little Shop]

OK, fair enough. However, given that we use these machines on the street, by using your analogy, would you say that a skydiver who jumps out of an air plane without a reserve chute is a pussy?.... Or that they either don't know how to pack a main chute properly, or (for that matter) know how to "skydive properly"?.. the point is, accidents happen and on the street, and it wouldn't kill you to have it (only bruise your ego at worst).

Reserve chutes are required for Sky Divers... and when I performed aerobatics
in an North American AT6 I donned a chute in accordance to FAA
regulations... its not an option... its a standard...

Accidents do happen but have you noticed that the more a rider is trained the
less accidents happen??? without proper training riders still make the same
mistakes despite the march of ABS technology...

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Technically speaking everyone uses ABS... either be it mechanical or
mental... so which type do we identify with???

Mechanical... An anti-lock braking system (ABS) is a system on
motorcycles which prevents the wheels from locking while braking. The
purpose of this is to allow the rider to maintain steering control
under heavy braking and, in some situations, to shorten braking
distances by allowing the rider to hit the brake fully without the
fear of skidding or loss of control. Disadvantages of the system
include increased braking distances under certain conditions and the
creation of a "false sense of security" among riders who do not
understand the operation and limitations of ABS or their bikes...
Cost 800 weight penalty 20lbs

Mental... An alert rider on a reasonable light weight motorcycle
equipped with the latest designed braking system and skilled in the
threshold braking technique... The purpose of this is to allow the
rider to maintain steering control under heavy braking and, in some
situations, to shorten braking distances by allowing the rider to
modulate the brakes fully without the fear of skidding or loss of
control... Disadvantages of the system include increased braking
distances under certain conditions and the creation of a "false sense
of security" among riders who push beyond their limits of mental
ABS...
Cost 0.0 weight penality 0.0

So if you aren't sure you can judge available traction, speed and distance, or
don't want to think about it all that much, then by all means rely on ABS. but
if you wish to brake hard and still have some skin in the game then read
on...


Step 1
Sort your bike out... check tire pressures and condition, suspension
settings, brake condition, then find a smooth, straight, clean bit of road
without too much camber. Do a few runs braking fairly hard to warm the
tires and get a feel for how it handles. As you line up for your first hard
stop, you need to be relaxed... If you find yourself pitching forward, grip
the tank with your knees to hold your weight off the bars...

Step 2
The initial phase is important because how you first apply the brakes
determines how the bike reacts. Your brakes are not an on/off switch.
You're looking for a smooth initial application that transfers weight on to
the front tire without suddenly compressing the suspension. If you just
grab on the lever, the suspension bottoms out, and then it can't absorb
any more movement. Something has to give and it's usually the tire which
may begin to break traction... So be smooth and be firm... that's the key...

Step 3
Having transferred the weight onto the front tire, you've given yourself
bags of extra grip. To use it, you need to increase the pressure on the
lever progressively. On any modern Sportsbike and most all Standards you
should be able brake hard enough for the rear wheel to lift off the ground.
If it starts hopping that's because the engine is locking it up... clutch in or
slipped and it should stop...
This is hard as you can brake in normal conditions. At this point, the rear
brake's no use to you at all. This is not a stoppie, by the way, that's a
separate stunt...

Step 4
Once you're up to full braking effort, you still have to assess what's going
in you path. If you're about to cross a patch of oil or cross a patch of dirt,
you'll want to release the lever pressure slightly, then increase it again as
the extra risk is passed. You need to be relaxed enough so that if you feel
the wheel locking, you can let lever off until it spins again, then get back
up to braking pressure. The only way to make this an instinctive reaction is
to practise deliberately locking and releasing the brake... if you don't wish
to risk your prize then Keith Code has a special bike built just for you called
the Panic Brake Trainer...


Step 5
As you come almost to the point of stopping, you'll obviously need to
actuate the clutch lever in to avoid stalling you can do this as soon as you
start to brake, but why not use the engine braking for it will help you keep
control. Secondly, slightly slightly release the braking pressure at the very
last moment. This gives the suspension a chance to return to normal
otherwise you come to a halt, and the forks bounce up from full travel,
which can unbalance you as try to put your foot down and stop... mercy
you don't want to avoid an accident and then drop the bike like a
beginner...

How about your BIKE???
I trust it's in good shape, well-adjusted, and with plenty of life left in brake
pads and tires. Wrong tires pressures or worn tires can destroy braking feel
and performance

HANDS???
Some people use all four fingers on the brake lever, and some prefer two or
three. One is a possible with the latest race brakes but I find that the less
fingers the harder to get the fine control I need on the track... so I
alternate between two on the street and four on the track... no one is
going to criticize the number of fingers as long as you can brake in the
shortest distance possible listed in the owners manual...

SURFACE???
Constantly changing... after all... it's the perverted highway... so you need
to keep changing your braking pressure, and be prepared to let the brakes
off altogether over really slippery bits...

ARMS
Don't lock them straight... for you'll lose feel and control. Brace your body
weight by taking weight through the foot pegs and gripping the tank dents
between your knees...

CLUTCH
Leave it engaged until the very last moment it should help you stop quicker
and more in control if you use the engine braking. If the engine starts to
lock the back wheel up, slip the clutch slightly exactly as you would when
you pull away... now if your prize sports a slipper clutch then it will limit the
engine braking automatically for you...

BRAIN
Thinking to itself, "Do I need to stop? Couldn't I just bleed off a little speed
and ride round the problem? Where are my escape routes?" If you plan
well enough ahead then you should hardly ever need to do an emergency
stop. You should always be aware of your position in relation to the
perverted traffic full of cagers out slaughtering the fine art of driving...

EYES
Constantly looking for another way out of trouble... don't look at the
problem or you'll ride straight towards it... rather focus on your escape route...


I think of ABS as Able Braking Skills... I'd rather tax my brain not my bike...
however I will invest in up grades but only if they are lighter and work better
than stock... Mr.RC45's current braking system... you're looking at about 5K worth...

 

[Aluisious]

Have fun with your mental ABS on a wet, sandy road if a deer or retarded driver pulls in front of you.

If all you run is dry race tracks, sure, no use for ABS.

 

[louemc]

Excellent stuff, in text and piccies.

I relate to the Fingers used, On my TLR Six Pistion Calipers, were plenty powerful for one finger braking, but I had to use two fingers for precise control.

On my ZX-10, I had to upgrade, but hit the point of one finger for the brake. That makes the brake and the gas, one control.

And...I'm always saying...braking is over rated. The first and never let it be other than first, is (as your text says) eyes. Look at the clear space. It won't be seen unless your looking. Toss your bike, dive into the clear space.

When riders brake to avoid something, you can just bet they are looking at the thing they don't want to hit.
Now does the "you go where you're looking" rule have to be reviewed?

 

[louemc]

Have fun with your mental ABS on a wet, sandy road if a deer or retarded driver pulls in front of you.

If all you run is dry race tracks, sure, no use for ABS.

Well....first thing, You know you are on wet Sandy road, so how you adjust is mental, or it better be, Mental doesn't come out of no where, it's a product of learning, experiences, and focused concentration.

 

[Burning1]

Well....first thing, You know you are on wet Sandy road, so how you adjust is mental, or it better be, Mental doesn't come out of no where, it's a product of learning, experiences, and focused concentration.

Spotty roads provide spotty traction. If you apply your brakes lightly enough that you won't lock-up in the worst spots, you aren't using your brakes effectively on the clean spots. If you brake for the clean spots, you're liable to lock up on the rough spots. If you constantly modulate your brakes for clean and rough, you probably aren't giving your full attention to the car that just pulled out in front of you.

There are conditions where a skill rider will out-brake the best ABS systems. There are conditions where ABS systems will out-brake the most skilled rider.

The nice thing about ABS is that you always have the option to threshold brake.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Have fun with your mental ABS on a wet, sandy road if a deer or retarded driver pulls in front of you.

If all you run is dry race tracks, sure, no use for ABS.

Thanks Aluisious... I'll hold your thought like 20 lbs of dead weight...

Do you know the steps to stopping quickly with ABS???

1)Identify the threat... deer or retarded driver

2)Check your ABS inop light...

3)ABS inop Light off??? apply brakes without having to think all that much
about available traction / mechanical ABS...

4)ABS inop light on??? apply brakes being alert to available traction /mental ABS...


Now compare that with the steps to stopping quickly without ABS...

1)Identify the threat... deer or retarded driver

2)apply brakes being alert to available traction / mental ABS...

 

[DYTB]

OMG BLS, you're thread jacking this into a "mental braking seminar now", look man, don't take offense, but start your own thread called "NO a BS"....or "MENTAL aBS", or whatever you want. Once you do that, you can even get people to follow you from here by selecting the word that you want to divert from and link them into ANOTHER topic discussion, just select a word and hit the "Insert Link" button(the one with the little Globe and Chain)....Because we were talking about the S1000RR, not MENTAL aBS.

 

[reidconti]

It's nice to know there's one person this thread who has never panic-stopped in less-than-ideal traction or mental conditions.

The day I was doing 85 on I-5 in the dead of night, and a deer appeared out of nowhere in front of my fatigued and caffeine-addled eyes, I immediately started bending the brake pedal on my car for all I was worth. I'm surprised it didn't snap. I didn't have the presence of mind to relax one iota of pressure until I had avoided the suicidal obstacle, thanks to ABS.

I fucked up in many ways that night. Feel free to point them all out, if it makes you feel better and helps you to convince yourself that you'd never do the same thing, but odds are almost everyone here will too someday.

I can't believe anyone deludes themselves into thinking they live in a fantasy world where things are always perfect. Except for the ABS system, which you have to check for malfunctions every time you reach for the lever.

 

[iehawk]

The S1000RR can be equipped with Race ABS and Dynamic Traction Control. The keyword here is dynamic where both operate based on the 4 preset settings, but also adjust themselves accordingly to certain parameters within each preset. That is they become less and less intrusive as you move up from RAIN to SPORT, RACE, and finally SLICK.

They also take into the account how far the bike is leaning. And the best of all... they can be turned off. So let's say, for the purist/racer on the track who prefer the traditional feel, by all means, turn them off.

At 5.5lbs for the module, you won't really feel the difference in the weight to begin with. Or... like I said before... order the bike without it. Busy Little Shop, your problem is fixed. BMW never force you to use the ABS. Even on the bike with one, now you can turn it off. I don't understand the concern and argument here. If this was 1985, yea, maybe.

On the serious note, more and more of us do appreciate having a bike equipped with ABS. Why do you seem so bent backward about it?

And yes, please, keep your post on this thread related to the S1000RR news.

 

[BIG186]

I've gone from wanting one to not wanting to wanting it again etc..... I think I want one again I also ponder if I get one with all the bells and whistles (TC,ABS,QS) will I deveolpe more bad habits that I'm trying to break and improve on as a novice racer and trackday junky. I would love to be able to say that I have expirenced TC and ABS, but in the end if I lap quicker with all the goodies will I turn it all off to sharpen my skills as a rider? I guess everybody uses a remote control to change the channels on their TV's instead of getting up and walking over to it in years past. If it has as much power stock as my current modded ZX10 Im fooling myself if I say im not sold. Being 6'5'' I chose the new 10R for rider position and hearing that the Bimmer is similiar in that aspect has got me day dreaming at work way to much now. SUBSCRIBED

 

[iehawk]

LOL... I guess all things are related... ABS talk or not, either way, keep going.

 

[little_bro]

I'll never figure out the "religious" aspect of the motor configuration debate. They are like anything - each having its advantages and drawbacks, strengths/weaknesses. Each offering a different, but for me personally, an equally enjoyable riding experience.

The current crop of bikes is just sick. From the 1198 to the RSV4R to the R1 to the S1000RR - they are all just sick. I'm in danger of losing sleep over the choice I've already made and might try to legitimately justify owning one of each with a reason other than "because I can".

The S1000RR is more controversial in its styling than the 999 ever was/will be, in my opinion. Clearly, the hp number will be its main selling point. BMW knew that and has apparently delivered.

 

[iehawk]

I'll never figure out the "religious" aspect of the motor configuration debate. They are like anything - each having its advantages and drawbacks, strengths/weaknesses. Each offering a different, but for me personally, an equally enjoyable riding experience.

Totally agreed. It's a matter of which one 'fits' you best.

 

[vato_loco]

I enjoyed reading this thread, although the new S1000RR is not the bike for me.

Re ABS, traction control, etc: I think it's good to embrace new technology when appropriate for your style of riding.

Electric motorcycles? Bring it on!

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Cool test at Valencia... 180HP BMW owned the straights whereas the 160HP Aprilia owned the corners...

[youtube]<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kfdxFSbrBUM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kfdxFSbrBUM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>[/youtube]

 

[Busy Little Shop]

I'll never figure out the "religious" aspect of the motor configuration debate. They are like anything - each having its advantages and drawbacks, strengths/weaknesses. Each offering a different, but for me personally, an equally enjoyable riding experience.

Engineers can't be bothered with the "religious" aspect of the engine
architectures... they must advise their bosses to which architecture has the
most advantages and which architecture has the least... then it's up to the CEO
of the company to build it or not...

 

[little_bro]

Engineers can't be bothered with the "religious" aspect of the engine
architectures... they must advise their bosses to which architecture has the
most advantages and which architecture has the least... then it's up to the CEO
of the company to build it or not...

Clearly no religion here.

I was referring specifically to this thread - not people who actually design motors.

That's not *exactly* how product development works but that's a topic for yet another thread.

 

[iehawk]

Is it just me or that the S1000RR did spend a lot of time in front of the RSV4? I think the RSV4 is more like sharing the corners, not really owning them.

On a serious note, thanks for the video, Larry. The RSV4 is the one bike missing from MCN's Literbikes comparison video.

That was really cool how both bikes are going back and forth like that.

Merry Christmas! arty

 

[louemc]

I was struggling to come up with a way of saying "Owning the Corners?" Even people getting evicted out of forclosed on homes show that much ownership.

But I couldn't find a way to say it, so I didn't