SaferMoto vests on the news!

[johnkol]

If there was no benefit and it was as simple as 'airbag technology is flawed and just moves the energy to another part of the body' why are there a number of companies developing and selling these things for multiple high risk activities, including deployment at the highest levels of motorcycle racing in the world?

Nobody said that the technology is flawed or that there is no benefit from it. What we want is to rigorously quantify the benefits so we can assess its efficacy and worth -- and the only way to do this is to test them with an existing methodology so we can compare the results with already well-proven solutions.

Hit-Air went this route by submitting its products to the previously mentioned JIRA testing, which does not help us much since this seems to be a one-off test. Had they tested their products using EN1621 or EN13158 methodologies, much of this confusion would have been absent.

 

[Archimedes]

Was doing a bit of thinking over lunch.

If these are actuated by a lanyard, then that means that the rider needs to separate from the bike by 'x' distance. On the track, lowsides and highsides are the typical crash. IN a lowside its the tumbling that the vest may help with, but then only after separating from the bike. On the other hand, they may help with a highside if it's violent enough to create 'x' distance between bike and rider before the rider contacts the ground.

On the street, the most common multi-vehicle accident is the left turning vehicle crossing the motorcycles path. In this instance, the vest isn't going to help with the initial impact with the car, and may help with secondary impact(s).

Yes, it will if you have it adjusted right. It will deploy when your legs are extended if you sent the lanyard properly. If you hit head on and go over the bars, it will deploy just as you get over the bars.

There are certainly crashes/angle where it won't deploy at initial impact, but if you have it properly adjusted most of the time it will, and deployment is extremely quick. The most common instances where I could see it not deploying on initial impact is a side impact or a slowly separating lowside. And if you're going 100 and hit a wall, maybe it won't get the job done. 40 in a street broadsiding a car, it's gonna deploy before you hit the car unless you left way too much slack in the lanyard.

 

[MCCRASH]

40 mph broadside into a car? Not even close. At that speed you will travel 15 feet before the vest fully inflates. That is immediately from activation, so even if you're lanyard length was zero, it would be 15 feet from that. On the other hand, if I go over that car, the vest will have inflated before I hit the ground or another object. Again, I wear mine on the street, but I know what it's capable of and not capable of.

 

[Enchanter]

I'm not picking on you Archimedes, but misinformation like this is why I started commenting in this thread.

40 in a street broadsiding a car, it's gonna deploy before you hit the car unless you left way too much slack in the lanyard.

40 mph broadside into a car? Not even close. At that speed you will travel 15 feet before the vest fully inflates. That is immediately from activation, so even if you're lanyard length was zero, it would be 15 feet from that.

 

[Archimedes]

40 mph broadside into a car? Not even close. At that speed you will travel 15 feet before the vest fully inflates. That is immediately from activation, so even if you're lanyard length was zero, it would be 15 feet from that. On the other hand, if I go over that car, the vest will have inflated before I hit the ground or another object. Again, I wear mine on the street, but I know what it's capable of and not capable of.

Sorry, I wasn't assuming a 40mph rider not braking and traveling straight into a wall. I was assuming the typical in town accident, where a bike is typically doing a max of 40mph, car turns left, you brake and tbone it. You have breaking effect and you also typically go over the car, not face first into it. If you go face or top head first into the side of a fixed object, an airbag probably isn't going to do much for you, inflated or not.

 

[Archimedes]

Wacky, unproven technology this airbag stuff.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/marquez+crash+telemetry

Then again, it is just anecdotal, it's not a test.

 

[scotinexcile]

Just wanted to drop a link for the product sheet for the Racer vest that has images of the vest inflated http://www.hit-air.net/?attachment_id=723

 

[scotinexcile]

On the actual report. All I can say is I told them specifically TWICE that I could NOT say the vest saved my life only that I felt it minimized my injuries in that particular crash.

When dealing with the press I have come to find out they say WHATEVER they think they need to say at the time.

 

[MCCRASH]

That Racer vest is nice -- moves the keybox out of the way of the tank. Question: is that neck protection on the Racer vest greater than the MLV?

 

[scotinexcile]

That Racer vest is nice -- moves the keybox out of the way of the tank. Question: is that neck protection on the Racer vest greater than the MLV?

The neck part of the Racer vest is a little larger than the MLV series but less than the Neck vest.

 

[Lazerus]

Transfer energy away from my neck (small muscle group, small surface area, greater portion of body affected by nerve damage) to my back? Yes plz

 

[Kwang]

Anybody know when the cannisters should be replaced if they haven't been used to inflate the air bags? How long do they last?

 

[Cincinnatus]

Replace them after they've been used.

They last forever if you don't use them.

I keep the replacement instructions and the allen wrench in a Ziploc bag in the pocket below the mechanism, and spare cartridges in my tank bag. I was a Boy Scout, so 'Be Prepared' is almost second nature.

 

[scotinexcile]

One of our customers just had an article published in the BMW Owners Club Magazine. Sorry no data just opinions and experience

BMW Article pdf

 

[Enchanter]

I do want to hear about this stuff, I just want more than what is in that article, since it reads like many of the posts in this thread.

It is rather interesting that many riders will compare data of motorcycles (weight, bhp/torque, 1/4mi time, braking distance, etc) before purchasing, but don't look for similar performance data for the gear they wear.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

I do want to hear about this stuff, I just want more than what is in that article, since it reads like many of the posts in this thread.

It is rather interesting that many riders will compare data of motorcycles (weight, bhp/torque, 1/4mi time, braking distance, etc) before purchasing, but don't look for similar performance data for the gear they wear.

Let me ask you a simple question, Tim... do you think, overall/in most instances, a rider will have increased protection in a crash with the vest? And that's a yes/no type answer!

And truthfully, there's not a lot of other products out there to compare the vest to.

One last thing... my adopted daughter crashed in her race this last Sunday. I've never been so scared when I was waiting for her to come down the front straight- and she never showed up.
I'm giving up a race weekend for myself to buy her one of the Racer vests for her birthday, because I believe it will help keep her safe.

 

[johnkol]

Let me ask you a simple question, Tim... do you think, overall/in most instances, a rider will have increased protection in a crash with the vest? And that's a yes/no type answer!

I'm not Tim, but I have some time to kill, so I'll play.

Yes, I'm sure the vest offers some protection, the question is how much.

And truthfully, there's not a lot of other products out there to compare the vest to.

And that's where you're wrong. Equestrian vests provide proven and certifiable energy absorption, roughly equivalent to a Forcefield Sub4 back protector, but for your entire upper body.

They are the only upper-body protectors in the market that will certifiably protect your rib cage from blows hard enough to break your ribs.

So the question becomes, how do air vests perform relative to the EN1621 and EN13158 standards that we are familiar with. Once we have this information we can make an informed decision on whether the air vests are a worthwhile option.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

I'm not Tim, but I have some time to kill, so I'll play.

Yes, I'm sure the vest offers some protection, the question is how much.


And that's where you're wrong. Equestrian vests provide proven and certifiable energy absorption, roughly equivalent to a Forcefield Sub4 back protector, but for your entire upper body.

They are the only upper-body protectors in the market that will certifiably protect your rib cage from blows hard enough to break your ribs.

So the question becomes, how do air vests perform relative to the EN1621 and EN13158 standards that we are familiar with. Once we have this information we can make an informed decision on whether the air vests are a worthwhile option.

You know, I spent decades owning horses. I've ridden English all my life, and my first horse I did some show jumping on, even won some ribbons. Spent a lot of years getting tossed off, too. The vest you reference is similar to what some of the bull/bronc riders I knew were using. Yes, it provides protection for your ribs. However, it does nothing to stabilize your neck, unlike the Hit Air vest.
As an equestrienne who also trained horses, I've been kicked, stomped, tossed over jumps, tossed through jumps, and scraped off on fences.
And the force generated when I tossed my Li'l Ninjette down the track was considerably more than anything I experienced coming off a horse.
Having experienced multiple get-offs from a horse, and one on my race bike, I'd take the Hit Air vest. I want my neck stabilized (betting Christopher Reeve would have felt the same way, too).
Of course, that's entirely based on my personal experiences, so it's not in the least bit scientific, and entirely anecdotal. YMMV.

 

[louemc]

You know, I spent decades owning horses. I've ridden English all my life, and my first horse I did some show jumping on, even won some ribbons. Spent a lot of years getting tossed off, too. The vest you reference is similar to what some of the bull/bronc riders I knew were using. Yes, it provides protection for your ribs. However, it does nothing to stabilize your neck, unlike the Hit Air vest.
As an equestrienne who also trained horses, I've been kicked, stomped, tossed over jumps, tossed through jumps, and scraped off on fences.
And the force generated when I tossed my Li'l Ninjette down the track was considerably more than anything I experienced coming off a horse.
Having experienced multiple get-offs from a horse, and one on my race bike, I'd take the Hit Air vest. I want my neck stabilized (betting Christopher Reeve would have felt the same way, too).
Of course, that's entirely based on my personal experiences, so it's not in the least bit scientific, and entirely anecdotal. YMMV.

Actually, given how the body gets impacted in gyrations during a crash...I'd favor anecdotal.

And bike specs like engine type, torque, HP, wheel base, Weight, seat height.
Is a different type of measurement, all-to-gether, not a comparison of importance.

For protective gear, lab testing numbers are needed and have a value....
But I don't put the value on them as actual crash results..Real people doing real things, in the real world.

 

[Archimedes]

And that's where you're wrong. Equestrian vests provide proven and certifiable energy absorption, roughly equivalent to a Forcefield Sub4 back protector, but for your entire upper body.

They are the only upper-body protectors in the market that will certifiably protect your rib cage from blows hard enough to break your ribs.

So the question becomes, how do air vests perform relative to the EN1621 and EN13158 standards that we are familiar with. Once we have this information we can make an informed decision on whether the air vests are a worthwhile option.

My daughters rides and competes in jumping. Those vests are far from perfect and most of the riders don't even wear them. I'd much rather be wearing an air vest that my daughter's vest if I fell off of a horse, but to each his own. As regards that testing, I don't know if any of those standards rate the ability to stabilize the neck/spine, versus simply impact dissipation.

At the end of the day, I think it's hard to say wearing one of these has any negative benefit, so whatever does or doesn't float one's boat is up to them. Most of the reluctance I've found talking to the equestrian riders isn't skepticism about the benefit, it's the fact that they think they look dorky. So did Christopher Reeve during the latter stages of his life. (And before you bust a blood vessel Enchanter, I'm NOT saying that an air vest would have saved his neck.)