Secret motorcycle industry panel looks for ways to reverse sagging sales

[Butch]

I think Royal Enfield is the number one selling motorcycle in the world.

https://royalenfield.com/usa/

Royal Enfield is one of the world's oldest motorcycle brands. The original Royal Enfield was established in 1893 but dissolved in 1971. The modern Royal Enfield brand was originally formed in 1955 as Enfield India, producing motorcycles for India's military under license from the original company. After the original closed shop, Enfield India took up the brand and continues producing Royal Enfield motorcycles with modern fuel-injected unit construction engines...

 

[m0t0_ryder]

Seat height shouldn't be an issue for anyone.

You are so wrong here.
I've worked in a moto shop for a couple years now where we sell used moto's (as well as gear and accessories).
Almost every woman who comes in looking for their first (or next) bike are concerned about seat height.

As a beginning rider the first fear that hits is tipping over because you cannot get both feet on the ground when stopped. Especially the ladies I've encountered. (maybe the newbie guys won't "admit" this concern?).

Many bikes have lowering link capabilities and we do sell a fair amount of those.
Our shop just took in an FZ7 lowered to suit the lady owner. We have a few bikes on the floor that have been lowered and that's "usually" where I start the entry rider to sit and feel the bike. Much less intimidating than tip toeing a bike when it's stopped.
And intimidation can scare potential new riders away.

What the industry needs is a better selection of bikes up to 400cc that have seat heights suited to 4'10 to 5'8" height newbies.
More "standards" and less lay down style sport bikes.

There is a reason that most moto training organizations use 250cc bikes.
(besides the cheaper maintenance & repair costs)

I also feel the dwindling access to dirt riding (at least locally/urban areas) is not helping the industry entice new riders into the fold.
Dirt is the best place to learn and it's also a LOT of fun.

 

[zelig]

Seat height is definitely a factor for novices. Look at bicycles for an example, specifically...
(1) the number of semi-recumbent pushbikes that enable proper leg extension in conjunction with flat-footing ergos (think cruiser), and
(2) the number of cyclists who run the seat too low on a "conventional" double-diamond frame, sacrificing their knees to get both feet down.

Little folks on tall bikes are definitely inspirational (where's that one of the guy with the big GSA?), but IMO that's more mad skills than basics.

 

[BeksNY]

Happy to help with the syntax.

Yeah I can't understand anyone getting into riding without friends to help them along the way—and that goes for longer than being a noob. I think friendship is one of the best parts of being a rider.

Best post I've seen all day. Warm fuzzies all around.

That said, when I decided I wanted to learn to ride, I didn't know anyone who rode. Nobody in my family (close or extended) rides and no friends of the family... nothing. So, I relied a lot on "the image" projected by various companies to help make those early decisions of what bike I wanted to start on.

 

[kelsodeez]

I think Royal Enfield is the number one selling motorcycle in the world.

https://royalenfield.com/usa/

Royal Enfield is one of the world's oldest motorcycle brands. The original Royal Enfield was established in 1893 but dissolved in 1971. The modern Royal Enfield brand was originally formed in 1955 as Enfield India, producing motorcycles for India's military under license from the original company. After the original closed shop, Enfield India took up the brand and continues producing Royal Enfield motorcycles with modern fuel-injected unit construction engines...

ive owned a modern royal enfield and it was terrible. ive ridden chinese bikes that felt more solid and dependable

 

[Sharky]

Are you referring to M2? The M2 monicker is the descriptor for the type of motorcycle license. There use to be only the M, but that was divided up such that the M1 covers all bikes, and the M2 would cover all bikes up to freeway legal. This was messed up due to someone being lazy, and currently the M2 only covers actual mopeds/low powered eScooters (not ICE scooters).

Restoring the M2 to it's intended stature, and making an adjustment to the CMSP would do wonders for both the industry, and the riders. It would sell more bikes, and it would give new riders more time to develop their skill sets—especially their mental awareness skills which can't really be developed over the course of two days in a parking lot.

Not referencing license restrictions/categories
Read from your first post.

Minorities are specifically referenced. It reads like it is a demographic to be catered to. My point is, there is no type of bike for minorities. There are only bikes for people. Women are under represented in motorcycling for a variety of reasons, but one that can be addressed by the moto industry is more appropriate bike styling and sizing for woman (fair enough, even though I don’t think women are any less capable of handling a moto than a similar sized man).

 

[blackrat]

I'm not getting the price complaints, did everyone here start out on a brand new bike? I thought newbies mostly started off on used bikes unless they were fortunate. Same thing with a first car, why would you give a first time driver a brand new car when you know most likely they're going to damage it or neglect it due to inexperience.

My first bike was a 10 year old TL-S that I picked up for a little over $2k and that was over budget for me. I'm finding several examples of old SVs for $2-3k on Craigslist right now. That should be well within reach for the average person.

As far as targeting women, I agree with seat height being a big issue. Being able to flat foot a motorcycle is a huge confidence booster and you're not going to be seeing the very few low seat height bikes in the dealership windows or advertising campaigns. Maybe offering different seat heights for bikes that are capable of doing so and making it commonly known would help out. I didn't know my current bike had a tall and short saddle option from factory until after I bought it.

 

[mrzuzzo]

So what does a bike for minorities look like?

 

[berth]

I'm not getting the price complaints, did everyone here start out on a brand new bike? I thought newbies mostly started off on used bikes unless they were fortunate.

My first four vehicles were all new. My scooter, my next 2 motorcycles, and my truck.

Why? Because there happens to be an entire industry around selling new things to people and making it easy for them to buy them.

For my purchases, I went in to showrooms, talked to salesmen, sat down with finance guys, and walked out with keys and vehicles.

When I bought my first truck, I actually tried to get a used one, but the finance guy wouldn't qualify me for it. Somehow I qualified for a $10K new truck, but not a $7K old truck. At that time in my life is was about access and cash flow rather than raw dollars. I wasn't going to be able to cut a check for any of these things anyway, so payments helped drive the sale.

I never felt robbed, or cheated, or pressured, or anything. It was a good deal at that time in my life and I entered in to those contracts eyes open and willingly.

When I bought my 3rd bike, I went in to the showroom that weekend, got a test drive. They were on sale that weekend. Came back on Monday. Happenstance managed to break the lock on my front door, so I took the day off waiting on the locksmith and just decided to go down and pull the trigger.

They tried to sell it to me at full price (instead of the sale price from the weekend), but I convinced them the errs of their ways and got the sale price.

Down payments, coupon books, crazy interest rates.

On my second bike, with the insane loan, the finance company, of all things, sent me a "Christmas check". Literally it was an unsecured loan. Cash the check, make payments. I took that check and paid on my bike loan with them. I did that because if for some reason I fell on hard times and couldn't make the payments, then the bike was mine and not theirs. They had nothing on me but a slip of paper. I could default, and they had nothing to repossess. No doubt I took an interest hit, but that was worth the peace of mind that my bike, my sole transportation, was staying with me until I decided to let it go.

 

[Schnellbandit]

There hasn't been an "On any Sunday" reachout effort. None.

Anyone who saw that movie wasn't just entertained, they were moved and welcomed to the sport. To that point, motorcycling was shown to be a sport, a thing that brought families and friends together regardless of which motorcycle they liked. There was a sharing of adventure, excitement and also it was about what it was not. It wasn't all about brand loyalty where anything except what you rode wasn't worthy or that the people who rode certain brands were this or that, it celebrated all of motorcycling.

Nowadays, motorcycling has been split into factions so often. With that comes the split of people because if you like Harleys then surely you are also a posuer because everyone knows HD ownership is just that, a facade parked at a Starbucks. Yet look at how many people buy them. They are just like all motorcyclists as are riders of 125 Hondas to near two liter tourers. What there isn't is a bridge between all the various brands and types of motorcycles because the manufacturers are chasing the car maker philosophy that fire breathings HP somehow funnels down to the person just entering the motorcycle market. It simply doesn't work that way for most, just the few.

The largest untapped market is women yet the sport is dominated by a male mentality where women are seen as the pillion, not the rider. That needs to change but for that to happen means a radical shifting of the perception of what a motorcyclist is.

Take a look at the typical moto gear ad, what do you see? Someone straight out of a transformers movie where the armored up, faceless helmeted robot looking rider stands next to their rocket bike. If there is a woman in an ad, she is also an add-on, the rear weight on the back of some guys bike. That has to change too.

Given the budget it took to get on "On any Sunday" produced and the advancements in video technology available today, another generation and interest blending effort could be created that reintroduces not the motorcycle as a sport but the motorcycle rider as your neighbor, your mother, father, sister, brother, friend to the newest generations who wander aimlessly around as they stare into the screen of a smartphone.

My 1cent.

 

[Reli]

So what does a bike for minorities look like?

Yeah I don't get it

Though I will say that in the sportbike category, Blacks tend to veer towards Kawasaki for some reason. Not sure why.

Asians are all about Honda and Yamaha. Suzuki is a white-boy brand, except for the Hayabusa which gets its fair share of African Americans too.

Euro bikes seem very whitebread, especially BMW

Harley seems to be mostly white and Hispanic

Course I could just google all this but I'm too lazy today

 

[Holeshot]

Motorcycles have always been about identity in the US, not transportation...and even when people use them to commute, they're STILL about identity. The industry must stick to that focus, however they need to introduce the savior of the auto industry; leasing deals from the manufacturer with included gear budget.

Leasing do three things;

1. Bring the product price down significantly for a stipulated time period

2. Bring a pipeline of used product onto the market for a stipulated value (lease returns)

3. Create a new buyer every 24-48 months

Retail automotive leases are the one thing that allowed manufacturers to keep plants operational while selling higher priced units than a purchaser would normally close on. This allowed greater margin. Additionally, the used market continued to gain prominence with franchise dealers, creating better profit streams from quantifiable (and certified) used vehicles. A "Certified" used motorcycle is a program that can sell.

 

[Adler / Gawernator]

Yeah I don't get it

Though I will say that in the sportbike category, Blacks tend to veer towards Kawasaki for some reason. Not sure why.

Asians are all about Honda and Yamaha. Suzuki is a white-boy brand, except for the Hayabusa which gets its fair share of African Americans too.

Euro bikes seem very whitebread, especially BMW

Harley seems to be mostly white and Hispanic

Course I could just google all this but I'm too lazy today

I'm not sure why but almost every hayabusa I've seen here had a big black guy on it hahah.

 

[Adler / Gawernator]

Motorcycles have always been about identity in the US, not transportation...and even when people use them to commute, they're STILL about identity. The industry must stick to that focus, however they need to introduce the savior of the auto industry; leasing deals from the manufacturer with included gear budget.

Leasing do three things;

1. Bring the product price down significantly for a stipulated time period

2. Bring a pipeline of used product onto the market for a stipulated value (lease returns)

3. Create a new buyer every 24-48 months

Retail automotive leases are the one thing that allowed manufacturers to keep plants operational while selling higher priced units than a purchaser would normally close on. This allowed greater margin. Additionally, the used market continued to gain prominence with franchise dealers, creating better profit streams from quantifiable (and certified) used vehicles. A "Certified" used motorcycle is a program that can sell.

Oh hell yeah. CPO cars are basically the best deal in the auto world right now, I'd like to see something similar for bikes since a lot of us just hate buying new knowing we are throwing a lot of money into the fire as soon as we ride off the lot. I think one issue there is motorcycles might be more likely to be "abused" than a car, maybe because a motorcycle is like a toy rather than a utility to most Americans.

 

[berth]

Motorcycles have always been about identity in the US, not transportation...and even when people use them to commute, they're STILL about identity.

Really?

Is that why you bought one and ride? Identity?

Who are you trying to identify with?

I understand your point, it's definitely a factor for many. I think most H-D riders purchase for identity.

But I also recall the then head of the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame Museum, and his comment about the DoD.

The DoD, Denizens of Doom, was the virtual motorcycle "club" that rose out of rec.motorcycles on USENET.

On the Internet, nobody knows you're not riding a Harley, or anything else for that matter.

And the AMA guy made a point to note how nice it was when the DoD groups visited the museum and how they represented the diversity of motorcycling. How this seemingly singular group was the exception to the rule of motorcycle clubs.

All the other clubs were brand or type related. Goldwings, Harleys, Sportbikes, "Classic" bikes, etc. DoD were just riders on the internet.

I appreciate that identity can be an aspect to motorcycling. I think the entire Adventure category is steeped in it right now.

But, I never considered it an aspect of my riding so much.

What identity did you adopt when purchasing a motorcycle?

 

[Gabe]

easy, LOWER THE FUCKING PRICES AIRHEADS.

To what?

How much should a Ninja 300 cost?

 

[DataDan]

How much should a Ninja 300 cost?

According to the Kawasaki website, MSRP for the ABS model is $5299, and it currently shows a $750 savings offer. Call it $4500.

In 1971 several of my friends bought new Honda CB and CL 350s; $750 was about the average price. In 2016 dollars that's $4500.

 

[Gabe]

I think Royal Enfield is the number one selling motorcycle in the world.

https://royalenfield.com/usa/

Royal Enfield is one of the world's oldest motorcycle brands. The original Royal Enfield was established in 1893 but dissolved in 1971. The modern Royal Enfield brand was originally formed in 1955 as Enfield India, producing motorcycles for India's military under license from the original company. After the original closed shop, Enfield India took up the brand and continues producing Royal Enfield motorcycles with modern fuel-injected unit construction engines...

You think wrong! The other Indian companies like Bajaj and Hero build far more in a month than RE does in a year.

 

[Gabe]

According to the Kawasaki website, MSRP for the ABS model is $5299, and it currently shows a $750 savings offer. Call it $4500.

In 1971 several of my friends bought new Honda CB and CL 350s; $750 was about the average price. In 2016 dollars that's $4500.

And that’s not even factoring in what a miserable POS the CB 350 is. For $2000, $350 in 1970 dollars, you can buy a sweet used SV 650, which is 5 Times better than any bike you could buy in 1970 for any amount of money. New or used, bikes are the same or cheaper then they were in the 70s.

 

[SFMCjohn]

Really?
... I think most H-D riders purchase for identity.

... I always think that about BMW guys ...

All the other clubs were brand or type related. Goldwings, Harleys, Sportbikes, "Classic" bikes, etc. DoD were just riders on the internet.

I appreciate that identity can be an aspect to motorcycling. I think the entire Adventure category is steeped in it right now.

What identity did you adopt when purchasing a motorcycle?

... plenty of motorcycle clubs like DoD, if one pays attention ...
even IRL clubs like—for example—the San Francisco Motorcycle Club ...

... we’ve had an AMA charter since the AMA was founded and
have a meeting every Thursday night with
maybe an average this season of 30 bikes in attendance
and it’s seldom
that there’s more than three
from the same manufacturer ...

I think Holeshot would say of me that I adopt
an identity when I get on my H-D (or way back when I was a clubracer)
or when I ride my BMW, or KLR, or ‘73 Tiger ...

... I’m OK with that ... for the most part I’d
say I got my bikes because I wanted to go on the
rides (or to the clubraces) that my friends were going to ...

... although like BeksNY I didn’t know anyone
who rode when I got my first bike, or when I
saw On Any Sunday for the first time ... arty

... did see that trailer in a theater
for Dust to Glory 2 this weekend ...

[YOUTUBE]QYIfZl7mPn0[/YOUTUBE]

... sure to recruit a couple of more
identity-steeped KLR n00bs to the Adventure-category fold ...