It has NOTHING to do with spent money, or future benefits, etc. I had a realization during an internship that I cannot sit in an office for 30years. I need something more, something that keeps me moving. I feel that my engineering degree is a great tool for problem solving and critical thinking in general, not just applied to technical disciplines.
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Sheriff & CHP: Differences
- Thread starter HalfEvil
- Start date
It has NOTHING to do with spent money, or future benefits, etc. I had a realization during an internship that I cannot sit in an office for 30years. I need something more, something that keeps me moving. I feel that my engineering degree is a great tool for problem solving and critical thinking in general, not just applied to technical disciplines.
I fully understand you there! I'm not an office type either. If there's nothing I learned more from the 7 years on active duty in the Army, it's that I like being outside working with new and interesting people and doing what I can to help them while protecting the innocent from the malacious.
J
Jm3
Guest
English degree has no major value and yes be bitter.
Oral Board scenario:
OB: "You have a degree in English, tell us why you chose that field?"
App: "I chose English so I can speak, write, and understand our non-native language. And make report writing a creative and descriptive procedure to address the facts as well as provide an entertaining reading."
OB: "So you are well verse with the English language then?"
App: "Yes sir. Though I do not speak anything beyond English such as Ebonics and certain street/gang slangs but I can converse with Caucasian well."
I could not disagree with you more. Doesn't a large amount of police work involve writing reports, documenting a series of events, composing legal documents etc? If you can't present your thoughts in a clear and understandable manner, you shouldn't be a LEO.
If various departments are directing you to college courses in english, writing composition, there must be a good reason why.
Furthermore, not all English composition courses focus on enhancing your writing skills to make a story more interesting. In my experience, they teach you how to convey your thoughts so that others can understand the point you are trying to get across. If you've got an entertaining story to tell, they will help you engage your audience. If you have to express a number of details wound up in a complex scenario, they will help you organize your thoughts so that the audience can follow your reasoning.
This is taken directly off the CHP website:
"Study books that review reading comprehension skills and English composition, including grammar and spelling. "
"Enroll in college or adult school courses that emphasize English, reading comprehension, and writing skills. "
This is taken directly off the LAPD website:
"You may want to consider taking a college course in business English and/or essay writing. Below are some courses offered through the Los Angeles Community College District that may interest you.* Course Name Course Number Description
Business English Business 31 (or CAOT 31) Knowledge of English grammar and punctuation rules; practice in writing sentences and paragraphs
College Reading Skills English 20 Techniques to improve reading skills and to write clear, coherent compositions
College Reading and Composition I English 101 Develops proficiency in college-level reading and writing through the practice of critical thinking and well-developed logical expository writing."
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Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
I hope you realize that I was putting humor to it. Yes I know report writing is mandatory skill to be proficient but quick and good problem solving skills edges out writing skills. If one can't converse and translate English into a detailed report then no one should not only be a LEO but also be a lawyer, clinical/social researcher, any position in the medical field, business field, chemist, etc, etc.
But good problem solving skills are not part of an English major in college this it is an acquired skills that can be learned from different sources such as other educational majors in college.
But good problem solving skills are not part of an English major in college this it is an acquired skills that can be learned from different sources such as other educational majors in college.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
No worries JM3 we can get off the box. 
J
Jm3
Guest
artyGood luck at the academy.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
thanks
It's not so much the English degree as it is the fact that he spent all that money to go to Stanford just to become a cop. If that was his goal, why put yourself in debt for the rest of your life getting that grade of an education when the reality is that most police officers have high school diplomas (associate degrees at best) and seem to write reports just fine. I'm not saying there aren't higher educated officers out there, I'm just saying it doesn't take a rocket scientist to write a good report. When I took report writing, we had some complete jackasses in the class that couldn't write for shit. By the end of the semester, these guys were turning out reports worthy of a Stanford English degree. Seriously though, there's a reason that they teach report writing in the academies. I doubt that police/sheriff departments expect to find guys with English degrees in their hiring pools. Oh wait, they do.
San Jose P.D., SCCSD, Berkeley P.D. and so on all require damn near if not equal to associate degree equivalents in semester or quarter hours in order to apply. It's funny that in every C.J. college course I've taken I've never seen one textbook or heard one instructor ever say that college degrees make better police officers.
San Jose P.D., SCCSD, Berkeley P.D. and so on all require damn near if not equal to associate degree equivalents in semester or quarter hours in order to apply. It's funny that in every C.J. college course I've taken I've never seen one textbook or heard one instructor ever say that college degrees make better police officers.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
Don't feel bad Jason. Maybe you should join Ace of Hearts and I in going to the academy as a non-affiliate. I believe this will help you shine at other agencies.
I'd like to, but that's not going to pay the bills. I've got to be hired in order to go.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
I can relate and you gotta do what you gotta do. Moving from a 2 income family to 1 is not easy at all. But it build you a strong character and determination. I was laid-off and gave up on corporate America with all the greediness thus decided to venture into something that was bugging me for a very long time and for Ace he has his own story and he has a fairly good paying job with an MBA 
. Go figure.
BTW: You may like this story. It falls into our situation but with different reasons.
"Officer who tried to save toddler found his career later in life
By JEFF JARDINE
jjardine@modbee.com
last updated: June 19, 2008 10:10:38 AM
Promo of JJ Ramar, the Modesto police officer who shot and killed the guy who killed his own child Saturday night near Turlock. He helped Dan CostaÍs 5.11 Tactical design a better pair of pants for police and military type work. - Unknown - Unknown
Promo of JJ Ramar, the Modesto police officer who shot and killed the guy who killed his own child Saturday night near Turlock. He helped Dan CostaÍs 5.11 Tactical design a better pair of pants for police and military type work. - Unknown - Unknown
Whenever there's an unusual incident or action of any kind, you might think, "Wow, what were the odds of that particular person being there at that particular time?"
For Modesto police officer Jerry "J.J." Ramar, those odds go well beyond being a part of the helicopter unit that responded Saturday night to a most fateful and tragic call: a man stomping his 2-year-old son to death along a rural road west of Turlock.
The odds transcended Ramar jumping out of the chopper as it landed, running up to an electrified fence, pointing his gun at 27-year-old Sergio Aguiar and ordering him to stop his maniacal assault on his lifeless son.
And they go beyond Ramar firing a single shot — truly a shot in the dark — through the dust stirred up by the aircraft's blades, killing Aguiar instantly.
That's because Ramar followed a less-traveled path to become a police officer to be at that point at that very moment.
Some who go into law enforcement go to the police academy right out of high school, junior college or after a hitch in the military. Assuming they survive the background investigations and drug screens, many begin their careers with agencies in small cities.
Ramar comes from another group: Those who tire of life in the private sector and want something different. He entered the academy at age 30, graduated at 31 and joined the 1,400-officer San Jose Police Department in January 2002. He commuted to work for 2½ years until he was hired by Modesto in the spring of 2004.
When the incident occurred late Saturday, the 37-year-old easily could have been reviewing the night's receipts in the Mallard's Restaurant he once managed and later co-owned in Stockton. He could have been checking the pantry to make sure there was enough food to handle the next day's business. He could have been doing any other task a small-business owner does every day to keep the place profitable.
Instead, he traded customer service for an oath to protect the public. In this case, it meant trying try to save a child who, in all probability, was dead before Ramar arrived.
What compelled him to switch careers midstream? Right now, he's not allowed to say. Citing the usual internal investigative and legal protocol after any officer-involved shooting, Modesto Police Chief Roy Wasden prohibited Ramar from talking to the media until the formal probe is completed.
In the past, officers involved even in the most obviously justifiable shootings have had to wait several months to learn whether they could face repercussions for their actions. But District Attorney Birgit Fladager, who promised during her campaign to resolve officer-involved shooting cases within 30 days, said this one should have the desired quick turnaround. Officials from her office began "shadowing the investigation that night," she said.
"There's not going to be any issue with this case," Fladager said. "But we do need to follow the process and be thorough."
The gag order on Ramar doesn't limit others from talking about him, though.
In 1989, entrepreneur Dan Costa hired Ramar, then an 18-year-old senior at Beyer High School, as a bus boy at the original Mallard's in Modesto. Ramar wanted to become an engineer and needed to pay his way through college, according to a 1999 story in The Bee. He could attend school at San Joaquin Delta College in Stockton during the day and work at night.
Steve Chappell, Ramar's best friend since they were fourth-graders at Capistrano Elementary in Modesto, said said he found Ramar's choice of occupations intriguing.
"He was going to JC, and I'm more surprised he didn't stay with that, go on and get an engineering degree," said Chappell, now a wildlife biologist who lives in Dixon.
Costa kept Ramar in the restaurant business by promoting him. He soon moved up — to waiter, then bartender and assistant manager. Ramar met his future wife, Keri, at Mallard's, where she also worked. By the time he was 28, he managed the Stockton Mallard's and, in 1999, bought half-ownership in the restaurant from Costa. Mallard's head chef Stan Dimond bought the other half.
Now married and a family man, the grind of the restaurant business wore on Ramar, Dimond said.
"You're there morning, noon and night," Dimond said. "Get a family, and you have to decide whether you want to be married to (the business) or spend time with the family."
"As owner and person who got called whenever there was a problem, or when his people called in and didn't come into work, he was the one responsible for maintaining the quality," Chappell said. "The restaurant business was consuming."
Dimond said the fast-paced nature of a restaurant challenges a manager to make decisions instantly and often. Ramar was very good at it — an ability, Dimond said, that translates well to police work and likely enabled Ramar to handle the situation last weekend.
Dimond remembers one night when robbers entered the Stockton restaurant after closing time and demanded cash.
"I would have let them in and 'Here's the money,' " Dimond said. "He didn't. He locked (the office) door with the money and wouldn't let them in."
Over the years, Ramar became friends with a number of police officers who frequented the restaurant. And, Chappell said, Ramar had other family members and friends who were in law enforcement.
One day, in late 2000 or early 2001, Ramar told Costa and Dimond that he wanted to sell his share of the restaurant.
"He said he was going to be a cop," Costa said. "That was his desire. It was a complete and total departure from anything he'd been doing with us. We about dropped our jaws. 'What?!!' He said he had a hankering to get into law enforcement. We said, 'If that's what you want, follow your love.' "
Within a few years, Ramar graduated from the academy, worked in San Jose and had joined the Modesto police. Costa, who had tapped into Ramar's potential in the restaurant business, was building his newest venture, 5.11 Tactical, which makes clothing for law enforcement and SWAT teams. He had sold the restaurants in 2005, and they have since closed.
He invited Ramar — whom he still calls J.J. — and other officers to sit in on a meeting for the development of new products.
"He said, 'This is the pant I wear on duty,' " Costa said, referring to an Army battle dress uniform that's been around since World War II. "He said it was the biggest piece of (junk) in law enforcement. The other guys agreed. So we sat there and designed a new pant."
Hence, the Tactical Dress Uniform was born. Ramar appears in a brochure for the garment, which became a hot seller for Costa's company.
"We used him in a national advertisement — a big picture of J.J. wearing the pants, explaining how he changed the industry," Costa said.
That, of course, wouldn't have happened if Ramar had not changed careers. Nor would he have been on the helicopter Saturday night, and had to fire his weapon for the first time in his career.
The odds of him being in that particular situation at that very moment? Immeasurable."
. Go figure.BTW: You may like this story. It falls into our situation but with different reasons.
"Officer who tried to save toddler found his career later in life
By JEFF JARDINE
jjardine@modbee.com
last updated: June 19, 2008 10:10:38 AM
Promo of JJ Ramar, the Modesto police officer who shot and killed the guy who killed his own child Saturday night near Turlock. He helped Dan CostaÍs 5.11 Tactical design a better pair of pants for police and military type work. - Unknown - Unknown
Promo of JJ Ramar, the Modesto police officer who shot and killed the guy who killed his own child Saturday night near Turlock. He helped Dan CostaÍs 5.11 Tactical design a better pair of pants for police and military type work. - Unknown - Unknown
Whenever there's an unusual incident or action of any kind, you might think, "Wow, what were the odds of that particular person being there at that particular time?"
For Modesto police officer Jerry "J.J." Ramar, those odds go well beyond being a part of the helicopter unit that responded Saturday night to a most fateful and tragic call: a man stomping his 2-year-old son to death along a rural road west of Turlock.
The odds transcended Ramar jumping out of the chopper as it landed, running up to an electrified fence, pointing his gun at 27-year-old Sergio Aguiar and ordering him to stop his maniacal assault on his lifeless son.
And they go beyond Ramar firing a single shot — truly a shot in the dark — through the dust stirred up by the aircraft's blades, killing Aguiar instantly.
That's because Ramar followed a less-traveled path to become a police officer to be at that point at that very moment.
Some who go into law enforcement go to the police academy right out of high school, junior college or after a hitch in the military. Assuming they survive the background investigations and drug screens, many begin their careers with agencies in small cities.
Ramar comes from another group: Those who tire of life in the private sector and want something different. He entered the academy at age 30, graduated at 31 and joined the 1,400-officer San Jose Police Department in January 2002. He commuted to work for 2½ years until he was hired by Modesto in the spring of 2004.
When the incident occurred late Saturday, the 37-year-old easily could have been reviewing the night's receipts in the Mallard's Restaurant he once managed and later co-owned in Stockton. He could have been checking the pantry to make sure there was enough food to handle the next day's business. He could have been doing any other task a small-business owner does every day to keep the place profitable.
Instead, he traded customer service for an oath to protect the public. In this case, it meant trying try to save a child who, in all probability, was dead before Ramar arrived.
What compelled him to switch careers midstream? Right now, he's not allowed to say. Citing the usual internal investigative and legal protocol after any officer-involved shooting, Modesto Police Chief Roy Wasden prohibited Ramar from talking to the media until the formal probe is completed.
In the past, officers involved even in the most obviously justifiable shootings have had to wait several months to learn whether they could face repercussions for their actions. But District Attorney Birgit Fladager, who promised during her campaign to resolve officer-involved shooting cases within 30 days, said this one should have the desired quick turnaround. Officials from her office began "shadowing the investigation that night," she said.
"There's not going to be any issue with this case," Fladager said. "But we do need to follow the process and be thorough."
The gag order on Ramar doesn't limit others from talking about him, though.
In 1989, entrepreneur Dan Costa hired Ramar, then an 18-year-old senior at Beyer High School, as a bus boy at the original Mallard's in Modesto. Ramar wanted to become an engineer and needed to pay his way through college, according to a 1999 story in The Bee. He could attend school at San Joaquin Delta College in Stockton during the day and work at night.
Steve Chappell, Ramar's best friend since they were fourth-graders at Capistrano Elementary in Modesto, said said he found Ramar's choice of occupations intriguing.
"He was going to JC, and I'm more surprised he didn't stay with that, go on and get an engineering degree," said Chappell, now a wildlife biologist who lives in Dixon.
Costa kept Ramar in the restaurant business by promoting him. He soon moved up — to waiter, then bartender and assistant manager. Ramar met his future wife, Keri, at Mallard's, where she also worked. By the time he was 28, he managed the Stockton Mallard's and, in 1999, bought half-ownership in the restaurant from Costa. Mallard's head chef Stan Dimond bought the other half.
Now married and a family man, the grind of the restaurant business wore on Ramar, Dimond said.
"You're there morning, noon and night," Dimond said. "Get a family, and you have to decide whether you want to be married to (the business) or spend time with the family."
"As owner and person who got called whenever there was a problem, or when his people called in and didn't come into work, he was the one responsible for maintaining the quality," Chappell said. "The restaurant business was consuming."
Dimond said the fast-paced nature of a restaurant challenges a manager to make decisions instantly and often. Ramar was very good at it — an ability, Dimond said, that translates well to police work and likely enabled Ramar to handle the situation last weekend.
Dimond remembers one night when robbers entered the Stockton restaurant after closing time and demanded cash.
"I would have let them in and 'Here's the money,' " Dimond said. "He didn't. He locked (the office) door with the money and wouldn't let them in."
Over the years, Ramar became friends with a number of police officers who frequented the restaurant. And, Chappell said, Ramar had other family members and friends who were in law enforcement.
One day, in late 2000 or early 2001, Ramar told Costa and Dimond that he wanted to sell his share of the restaurant.
"He said he was going to be a cop," Costa said. "That was his desire. It was a complete and total departure from anything he'd been doing with us. We about dropped our jaws. 'What?!!' He said he had a hankering to get into law enforcement. We said, 'If that's what you want, follow your love.' "
Within a few years, Ramar graduated from the academy, worked in San Jose and had joined the Modesto police. Costa, who had tapped into Ramar's potential in the restaurant business, was building his newest venture, 5.11 Tactical, which makes clothing for law enforcement and SWAT teams. He had sold the restaurants in 2005, and they have since closed.
He invited Ramar — whom he still calls J.J. — and other officers to sit in on a meeting for the development of new products.
"He said, 'This is the pant I wear on duty,' " Costa said, referring to an Army battle dress uniform that's been around since World War II. "He said it was the biggest piece of (junk) in law enforcement. The other guys agreed. So we sat there and designed a new pant."
Hence, the Tactical Dress Uniform was born. Ramar appears in a brochure for the garment, which became a hot seller for Costa's company.
"We used him in a national advertisement — a big picture of J.J. wearing the pants, explaining how he changed the industry," Costa said.
That, of course, wouldn't have happened if Ramar had not changed careers. Nor would he have been on the helicopter Saturday night, and had to fire his weapon for the first time in his career.
The odds of him being in that particular situation at that very moment? Immeasurable."
Last edited:
Well for me, I came off of 7 years of active duty with the Army for a career in Law Enforcement. It seemed like the best move...military to police officer. Unfortunately all those tales about how all the baby boomers are retiring and there's plenty of open slots going around aren't necessarily all true. Needless to say, I'm still plugging away at getting hired. I'm currently in the running with ACSO.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
Do you have GI Bill? I didn't I was young and stupid not to sign up for it during boot camp but also you know you can also get financial aid. Hell, I sold my Gixxer to cover expenses and bills. plus doing a garage sale this weekend. On a serious note if you really want to fulfill a dream go get it and let nothing stop you now. You will find a way and it maybe rough at first but you will find one. Praying for a miracle to get hired off the bat is far and few and I can tell you from you previous post that you are serious about it as much as Ace and I are but what does it have to take for you t take actions for yourself. Please read that article it's a good motivation.
On a serious note if you really want to fulfill a dream go get it and let nothing stop you now. You will find a way and it maybe rough at first but you will find one. Praying for a miracle to get hired off the bat is far and few and I can tell you from you previous post that you are serious about it as much as Ace and I are but what does it have to take for you t take actions for yourself. Please read that article it's a good motivation.Yeah I have G.I. Bill. My full time benefit is only $1684 a month, though. That's not gonna cut it. Financial aid won't pick up the difference either, so I'm still screwed. I know if I can just get the academy out of the way, I can show these departments my dedication level since apparently, lacking the college degree, they don't seem to think I have it. I dunno. I'm not discouraged....yet. I'm considering the CHP now. God help me. 
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
Good luck ch. My only advise to you is to turn the tables around when applying to an agency. Tell them why not having a degree is beneficial in your case.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
Then you gotta do better. You know I would like to wish that I was 5-10 years younger and going to be a LEO but I am not so what I need to do is go above and beyond the norm and stand out. Show more responsibility and initiative. Ride-along I feel are not enough to show one is serious. From what I can tell so far at least half of my future classmates are all non-affiliates and I have heard from two different Academy (SBRSTC and Stanislaus Sheriffs) that agencies regularly visits and hire cadets during the academy. In fact, I was told that REL's agency went to the Stanislaus Academy to specifically recruit new CHP officers there.
You know I would like to wish that I was 5-10 years younger and going to be a LEO but I am not so what I need to do is go above and beyond the norm and stand out. Show more responsibility and initiative. Ride-along I feel are not enough to show one is serious. From what I can tell so far at least half of my future classmates are all non-affiliates and I have heard from two different Academy (SBRSTC and Stanislaus Sheriffs) that agencies regularly visits and hire cadets during the academy. In fact, I was told that REL's agency went to the Stanislaus Academy to specifically recruit new CHP officers there.That they'll send through another academy.
No one gets a break from the CHP academy if they want into that department.
Outta Control
Renegade Drone Pilot
That maybe so but we'll never know they might have a special program designed for as such.
