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Smog Test- Deceptive Practice?

thank you- and thank you all for the range of info.
I don't qualify for any of the repair programs bc its the first time its being reg'd in CA. I bought it over a year ago when I was working in Arizona. I just paid it off a month ago (figures, right?) and until I did, the seller wouldn't supply me with the paperwork I needed to get a CA reg.
once they finally did I paid an arm and a leg to DMV to get the reg issues dealt with- to get only a temp tag until I got the weight done and the smog test.
the light doesn't stay on- its comes on and off.
I will look into the Aamco option and if they tell me the problem and give me an estimate I can compare with at least two other shops (and I can afford it) I'll get the work done. if I can't- well I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

as for the issues affecting the results- they were all very near or even well below average, I don't think they would improve the scores if there was some major problem, would they?

ElHundo said:
To teh OP: TheRobSJ's advise so far has been the only really reliable advise. I worked on cars for way too long, my father still runs his shop to this day.

1) You will fail the test if there is a transmission code, this is b/c if a transmission is having problems it is usually putting more load on the engine, thus -- usually -- causing more pollutants to be emitted.

2) Try and get a free trans opinion from Maaco (they still offer a free inspection, I believes).

3) Don't waste your time pulling battery cables & clearing codes until you take care of the trans b/c it is a total waste of bloody time.

4) I understand you may be in a tight spot for money. Google Consumer Assistance Program and they should be able to help you up to about 5 or 6 hundred bucks at participating garages (Gov't helps pay for your repairs).

5) Hope this helps you get the battlevan back on the road. Those trannys have a tendency to throw that code, so I advocate hitting up a trans shop first, preempting any and all conversations with your current financial situation.
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Maybe if Maaco clearcoats the internals of the transmission the fluid will flow easier and the shifting problem causing the CEL will go away!!!
 
If the car is low mileage and the transmission oil does not look too dirty/burnt, you can try changing the transmission oil and filter. That may cure the problem. If it does not you can add the lucas additive to the trans oil. It may mitigate the problem to the point where the computer does not detect it any more. If the trans oil looks dirty and/or burnt the car may completely quit running after the tranny oil change.

The trans slippage codes can be hacked. The GM PCM (powertrain control module) can be reprogrammed to not report any codes at all. On modified C5 Corvettes folks often reprogram the ECU to turn off all the check engine light. GM loves to share components across the lineup so I am almost certain that the GMC Safari PCM can be reprogrammed the same way.

There is always the good ol' "connect the VSS to crankshaft sensor instead of trans sensor" trick. If the car is in 3rd of 4th gear the PCM gets the signal from crank position sensor instead of trans. IIRC the sensors are identical (VR - variable reluctor). This "problem" comes up with engine swaps all the time, solutions are available. I would look around on teh intrawebz in the phorums where folks discuss engine swaps.

BTW, the 4L60 belongs to the same family of transmissions that are used in automatic corvettes, so they are stronger than the 4.3l V6 requires.
 
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Idontdotrix said:
the light doesn't stay on- its comes on and off.
I will look into the Aamco option and if they tell me the problem and give me an estimate I can compare with at least two other shops (and I can afford it) I'll get the work done. if I can't- well I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

as for the issues affecting the results- they were all very near or even well below average, I don't think they would improve the scores if there was some major problem, would they?
Click to expand...


In theory, yes you are absolutely correct, that once the trans. is fixed that the tailpipe readings should come down, IF the trans. was actually creating a drag/additional load on the engine. <<Did I read into your inquiry correctly, there??>>

However, since the light is intermittent (something I didn't catch before) I would -- unfortunately -- wonder about the code holding ability of the comp also. Don't let me scare you here, just proceed as you were going to before: trans. shops for some free estimates/diagnostic work and from there you have an idea of what's what.

A small tip: if the 1st trans. shop is just bollocking you on the price, then do pull the battery cable for 15-20 mins to clear the codes and then go and drive UNTIL the MIL (engine light) comes back on. Proceed back to auto parts store and pull the codes. This will give you a baseline of what codes are consistently coming up. You could do this twice -- time permitting -- to get a real handle on the consistency of teh codes.
 
Idontdotrix said:
as for the issues affecting the results- they were all very near or even well below average, I don't think they would improve the scores if there was some major problem, would they?
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No, I don't think fixing the issues would improved your sniff test results...in the world of smog, a pass is a pass. The point I was trying to make was if he didn't run the entire test and stopped just after seeing the CEL, you would not know the outcome of the sniff test. It's the not knowing whether you would have passed or failed that is worth the $50 you reluctantly paid. With the knowledge that you passed the sniff test, it is now safe to spend $400 to fix the CEL, as you are now confident that you will pass the sniff test.
 
no what I meant but may not have said clearly is that I'm surprised the emission results are already so low if there's supposed to be some kind of sensor and tranny problem. wouldn't you expect them to be at least ABOVE average? not one reading was over average and some were much much lower.
I understand these tests n the indication for CEL codes is meant to reduce emissions but what about when your emissions are perfectly normal (or even lower) WITH those codes present?

ok just read above post and that at least makes some sense. I really didnt have any concerns going in though that it would fail- it runs great, no smoke, no rough starts, no indication whatsoever of poor emissions.
 
Lady across the street had the trans problem. They wanted $2k at a trans shop, she took it to another smog shop and they figured it out for a couple hundred.
 
...or register it out of state...

Lots off good advice in here.
 
The state requires the station to run the test, even if the check engine light is on. Some will just tell you they can't do it without actually running it, but they're not supposed to.

Like others said, disconnecting the battery won't work because the monitors will have to run again. Same thing with using a scanner to clear the code. The monitors still need to pass, which they probably won't if the problem is not fixed. Even if you remove the bulb, the smog machine will still know the light is on because it gets the information from the OBDII connector.

FWIW, you should be able to buy an O2 sensor for a lot less than they're quoting you, and even a trained monkey can replace it pretty easily. No reason to pay somebody to do it (unless you don't have a trained monkey).

I also have an OBDII scanner and would be happy to help you out if you need it.
 
^^^ O2 sensor error I concur would get caught, but are they running the test on a dyno of sort with the wheels under power spinning? I cannot remember... what I remember was a sniffer in the tail pipe and a connection to the CPU then they run the test at various engine speeds. That said the tranny error if cleared just prior to testing it would not show up no?

My personal advice is to fix the error codes correctly.
 
Depending on the GVWR, they sometimes do a two speed idle test instead of the dyno test (also for AWD cars), but I doubt her van is too heavy for the dyno, so she probably gets the whole shebang.
 
VTRZA said:
Dude mechanics have to make money too. If there is a fault code appearing it needs a diagnostic which costs money. Why is the guy ripping her off just because he is charging his posted shop rate to work on the vehicle? You now how much a smog machine costs? Or a good scanner? If you don't like it,you are free to take your vehicle somewhere else.
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Say what? Let me get this straight here , you're defending a socalled mechanic who quite clearly is attempting to bend someone over and charge for grease?

And YEAH she is free to take it somewhere else I hope she does , and the mechanic involved may have just screwed the pooch for himself , since she may well have gone back and spent the money for the diagnostic had the clown not then tried to con her into a 2 grand trans rebuild , which is A. way outta line even if it DID need to be rebuilt and B. highly unlikely unless said trans has a couple hundred thousand miles on it or she's been doing neutral drops with low trans fluid day in day out.

The guy was a thief and there's no defending him he saw a woman walk in the door and got dollar signs in front of his eyes. He's the kind of clown that gives every mechanic a bad name and complicates things for decent , honest mechanics and smog techs due to the distrust the general public feels due to those of his ilk.




B.
 
ElHundo said:
In theory, yes you are absolutely correct, that once the trans. is fixed that the tailpipe readings should come down, IF the trans. was actually creating a drag/additional load on the engine. <<Did I read into your inquiry correctly, there??>>

However, since the light is intermittent (something I didn't catch before) I would -- unfortunately -- wonder about the code holding ability of the comp also. Don't let me scare you here, just proceed as you were going to before: trans. shops for some free estimates/diagnostic work and from there you have an idea of what's what.

A small tip: if the 1st trans. shop is just bollocking you on the price, then do pull the battery cable for 15-20 mins to clear the codes and then go and drive UNTIL the MIL (engine light) comes back on. Proceed back to auto parts store and pull the codes. This will give you a baseline of what codes are consistently coming up. You could do this twice -- time permitting -- to get a real handle on the consistency of teh codes.
Click to expand...




Trix , the above is spot on advice , follow it. And you're getting hosed on the trans estimate.




B.
 
OldFatGuy said:
FWIW, you should be able to buy an O2 sensor for a lot less than they're quoting you, and even a trained monkey can replace it pretty easily. No reason to pay somebody to do it (unless you don't have a trained monkey).

I also have an OBDII scanner and would be happy to help you out if you need it.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, Dannielle does indeed have a trained monkey.
 
Didn't see it posted yet...

If you do have to replace the o2 sensor see if the universal Bosch o2 sensor is compatible with the vehicle, they are generally much cheaper then the specific sensor. Only difference is cutting the single wire going to the existing sensor and using the included crimp connection to connect the new one.
 
Don't yank the battery lead. On ODBII vehicles it can take WEEKS of driving to trip all the internal tests (ask me how I know.)

For that $79 you can get an ODBII tester that'll give you the exact codes you need, and then most likely, you can find them on the 'net if they're a bit obscure (how I did it). That's how I identified which O2 sensor was dead.

You should also be able to get a generic O2 sensor for ~$60 from PepBoys, not the $300 most OEM parts are.

The transmission... um, what are you doing driving an autospastic anyway? :twofinger (English for 'I dunno, stupid automatics')
 
Ialready have the codes but they said those aren't necessarily correct n only way to be sure is the dignostic.

I drive an automatic big ass cargo van bc I have laods of big assdogs I need to take all over hell's half acre. its good for transporting bikes, too.
 
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