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So, you turn diving down to the Titanic into a tourist business..what could go wrong?

Kornholio said:
People over profits.
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I don't think that was the issue here. This is not a situation where the dude wanted to make money so he was happy to sacrifice some test pilots.

We has literally just crushed to death in his own machine, because he apparently thought it would be fine.
 
Eldritch said:
I don't think that was the issue here. This is not a situation where the dude wanted to make money so he was happy to sacrifice some test pilots.

We has literally just crushed to death in his own machine, because he apparently thought it would be fine.
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Agreed. I'm feeling more dunning kruger than Mr. Burns on this one.
 
What makes this case of failure unique is the failure matched with the confidence (faux or real) in the design and construction has a dramatic and easily to understand result.

I would not take this as an isolated incident. Failure is all around us and because there is no catastrophic implosion with days of news reports doesn't mean we can learn a lesson here; that lesson being, trust your judgement on "safety" even if the consensus is "it's ok".
 
ctwo said:
Huh?
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The only reason we recognize the (pre) failures of the CEO are because of the dramatic end to the 3 hour tour. We miss failures all the time because there aren't dramatic ends, etc.
 
In other words, there are plenty of failures out there by CEO's and execs, it's just that they aren't exposed for what they are.
 
For sure. And plenty of people in General.
 
Holeshot said:
I would not take this as an isolated incident. Failure is all around us and because there is no catastrophic implosion with days of news reports doesn't mean we can learn a lesson here; that lesson being, trust your judgement on "safety" even if the consensus is "it's ok".

The only reason we recognize the (pre) failures of the CEO are because of the dramatic end to the 3 hour tour. We miss failures all the time because there aren't dramatic ends, etc.
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Who is 'we'?

It seems to me, there were a plethora of people who told the CEO of Oceangate that what they were planning was pretty stupid, including scientists, engineers, etc that were involved under the umbrella of the whole company. That those 'we' knew this was not a good idea (not to be callous and speak ill of the dead) long before anyone of us commoners were even aware of any of the story. If the story of the submersible's previous dives had been broadcast to a wider audience, I guarantee there would be a ton more people who would have been very critical about the safety measures, or lack thereof, of the vessel and the procedures taken. Long before this particular failed dive. Anybody that wasn't drinking his innovative Kool-Aid and hearing Stockton Rush being so careless about the safety of deep sea diving would be alarmed. No one needed to die to recognize that.

If you're making a plea that the overall media is not so forthcoming with tragedy stories that never happened (because they never happened...), that's a whole different point to be made. But it's not like there's a shortage of catastrophic losses of life in the history of humans that were only known to be bad after the worst happened.
 
littlebeast said:
am so conflicted about this subject (armchair quarterbacking like anyone else at this point). spent the first 20+ years of my career working for the USAF and Nasa in high performance material research. primarily CF composite structures. my role was in development (manufacturing techniques) and material characterization testing (including testing to destruction). i have zero to add WRT deep sea submersibles, but do have experience with the CF composite / titanium interface. most frequently, titanium was used as the substrate for testing, and failure rates were highest at that interface.

IMO, gwynne has provided some of the best insight into this (tensile v. compression strength). carbon fibers are high in tensile strength, and epoxy is high in compression strength. when combined in a 3D CF structure, you get both.

am not at liberty to say the pressures we tested materials to, but like i said, the substrates were titanium, and at the high end, failure was most typically at that interface.

would add - there's no fucking way i'd bet my life on the conditions as they've been described.
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:thumbup
 
One 'sport' I never had the urge to do was bungie jumping, after being at a party with some of the pioneers of it in SF and hearing their stories, there was definitely no real effort to ensure that bad things wouldn't happen.

This CEO's attitude sounds very much like those people's attitude back then, though their operation had far less $$$ involved.
 
I mean, I've seen some of the videos / stories of stuff that can go wrong even with the best efforts when it comes to bungie jumping. The bungie can get wrapped around your neck, harnesses can slip, person running it can misjudge how long (or short) to make it, etc.

For DAMN sure I won't do any of those sketchy rope bridge things in China, either....
 
NorCalAthlete said:
I mean, I've seen some of the videos / stories of stuff that can go wrong even with the best efforts when it comes to bungie jumping. The bungie can get wrapped around your neck, harnesses can slip, person running it can misjudge how long (or short) to make it, etc.

For DAMN sure I won't do any of those sketchy rope bridge things in China, either....
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It went way beyond that in the early days in late 80's, usually it was a massive rush (both kinds) with trying to get the jump in before the cops showed up. They would eyeball the distance and jumper and make a guess, they weren't always right on their guess, sometimes the jumper didn't make it down to the water, other times they hit the water before much slowdown. The latter sometimes resulted in a trip to the hospital. They also didn't keep track of the nubmer of jumps done on the bungie cords, they retired them after they broke...

There was definitely little science applied, just trial and error.
 
86GxjHJ.jpeg
 
That is very hard to read.
Regardless of my personal feelings towards Rush and his passengers I can feel the fear that must have gripped them.
 
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