Some things to ponder about Frong's tagedy

[gsxrbabe]

i think i still have a little short term memory loss...like ill tell someone something and tell them again the next day...but its getting better

yup, totally normal.
i haven't been knocked out since '99, but i still forget where i'm driving too sometimes and will stop mid-sentence, totally forgetting what i was talking about. then i tell peeps "sorry, i've hit my head too many times" and they laugh, prob cuz they think i'm joking.

but it slowly improves, like most brains. doubt i'll get any more of my hearing loss back (my ears are fine, but my brian can't 'communicate' properly with my ear!), but my memory relapses are getting fewer and farther between. yay!

 

[fr0ng]

 

[infrandom]

factor in the part that i dont remember and NOBODY saw it, so we cant assume anything...as far as im concerned a freakin whale could have appeared in my line and made me crash. please stop the what ifs and maybes because we really dont know

My statement actaully has nothing to do with assumptions or what ifs, you asked someone how they worked out that you might think you are riding at 80% but were riding 110%.

Either way, its up to the individual to want to learn something from it. I think most people just don't consider the saftey part when they talk about %s. (Notice that was a general statement)

Edit: Just in case its a short term memory thing I'll throw these in here:

Maybe what you felt was 80% was actually 110%?

Wheres the logic in that?

When I feel like Im riding 90-95% Im usually doin 2:11s but id been doin 215-220s all day long..

 

[gsxrstein]

So who won the fr0ng crash poll?

I know thats a shitty thing to say, but the truth is everyone saw fr0ngs crash coming way before it happened. Shame that it could not of been prevented. Sucks when you have to learn things the hard way.

Same goes for many other riders that are pushing too hard too soon. I seen so many come and go over the last 22 years of riding with the faster guys, some of which were not as fast as crazy....

I hope the ones reading this can learn from fr0ngs lesson's and not make the same mistake of pushing too hard too soon and back it down a notch or two. (the track and street will still be there the next weekend, you may or may not be.)

This is a very dangerous sport for talented experienced guys. New people to the sport who want to go fast have to realize that the odds are heavily against them if they push it too hard to fast.

Funny thing is if being "fast" is your goal... backing it down a notch and taking your time will get you to being "fast" quicker than jumping in there all gung ho screaming YEEEEHAAA as you fly through those turns and down those straights.

The experienced "fast" guys keep on saying this, but those new to this sport seldom listen... hopefully due to the documenting of what has happened to fr0ng will put a little more caution in the back of the minds of the new people to this crazy sport.

Don't think that it cant happen to you???

Many of us experienced guys know it can happen to us from our own past experiences. Don't learn the hard way....

Too much ego with not enough experience = crash almost every time....does not matter how much skill or talent you have.


fr0ng, I have to take my hat off to you for always posting whats on your mind and taking the flaming this board dishes out. I hope you don't take this post as a flame because I wish you the best and am saddened that this sport has lost another great guy that just had a little to much gusto. Heal up well...




PS- I too don't think that new people to the sport should be allowed lap timers at trackdays... its just asking for trouble.

Lap timers are for race practice, or races.

Or sometimes for bets.... j/k

 

[RickyHayden]

cool....about the head. dunno if you read my other stuff about concussions, but i have like, brian damage from having 4 'knock-outs'.

What kind of brain damage??

I Have had 7 concussions in my life and I dont think that anyone of my doctors have said anything about brain damage??

Is that normal to get brain damage or is that just something that could happen??


Maybe that why I get Migrains all the time

 

[KIDRR]

KIDDRR,
Don't get personal buddy. I doesn't really matter whether I've been on a racetrack or not, it's all riding. I have ridden 40,000+ miles and have crashed once on Hwy 9.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64990&highlight=KIDRR+graves

 

[Ducky_Fresh]

All ya'll should see Sami's helmet. Shit is impressive!

 

[theSteveCo]

...as far as im concerned a freakin whale could have appeared in my line and made me crash.

You might want to talk to DagoRed about that.

 

[JnglstTICAL]

Don't FUCKING CRASH AGAIN! (encouraging advice!)

 

[Robert R1]

How is that people are so damn accuracte with %age of their maximum they were riding at, any given time!?

 

[Max Smiley]

"tagedy" sounds like eddie murphy as buhwheat singing that bee gee song

 

[theSteveCo]

How is that people are so damn accuracte with %age of their maximum they were riding at, any given time!?

Those come on every bike... the little digital thingy next to the analog loudness-ometer? They have "mph" next to them; which stands for My Percentage x Hundred.

I often-times find myself in excess of 130% on the track!

 

[kevo]

Those come on every bike... the little digital thingy next to the analog loudness-ometer? They have "mph" next to them; which stands for My Percentage x Hundred.

I often-times find myself in excess of 130% on the track!

I thought that was next to the traction-ometer

 

[com3]

I thought that was next to the traction-ometer

no no no...didn't they teach you in the moto safety course? the traction-o-meter is next to the laser your-knee-is-XX-inches-from-the-ground specometer.

 

[Leonard]

...I've had just such an occasion happen at the track (Sears Point), where I was riding a 400'cc machine (Kawi, ZXR-400). My lap times that day were very close to the lap times that another fairly skilled trackday rider was doing, on his Yamaha R1...

Gary you make some excellent points. So many people are focusing on the lap time, but as we know when it comes to crashing, it is how fast you are going in relation to where you are or what you are doing that matters. For example if you are not taking a good line or if you fumble the controls.

I had a friend who crashed in turn 4 at Laguna Seca while riding at the back of the C group during the warm up lap. He pulled a bone headed move on the brakes and throttle after he got spooked.

Anyway didn't you have a BMW R65 that you used to pace people with? I seem to remember trying to chase you at Laguna about ten years ago. It was pretty obvious that corner speed was the deciding factor.

 

[girlscanride]

Could it be possible that he had a false sense of security ? That nothing major could ever happen in a 'controlled environment'.

I know it was a freak accident. I know that most accidents in the track will leave the rider unscathed. But I want to stress the fact you guys still be careful; don't ride over your head; and anything is possible.

Fr0ng wasn't riding over his head. Crashing can be a part of the "learning” curve. A rider with less experience doesn’t necessarily have the experience of what to do when his/her bike does something they haven’t yet experienced. i.e. the first time the rear slides, the first time you get a tank slapper, the first time the front end pushes. Most of what schools teach is what is your natural reaction and what is the right reaction. Most riders learn from their own experiences and sometimes can benefit from that of others. I know when ever my bike does something that strange that it hasn’t done before , I ask a more experienced rider. The longer you ride, the harder your rider the more things that you learn.

Having ridden several times with Fr0ng, I can say that he is a good-safe rider. I have yet to see him over his head, out of shape or RECKLESS.

It is common for people to run off T-1 at T-hill. It is a very fast turn. Fr0ng had a good line through T-1.

What is freak about this accident, is that no one saw him run off. With some many people on course, the freak part is no one saw him. No one saw dirt…. Not another rider… not a turn worker… not the start tower. That’s what is freak about it.

People who ride on 2-wheels fall down. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when and how bad. In my opinion, there are less tragedies/fatalities on the track. But the statistics for motorcycle riders are not good. Many people brake bones, suffer serious injuries and sometimes… die.

It sucks but it is a fact of riding bikes.

My recommendations are: invest in good gear (the best that you can afford) and take the time to become a better and safer rider. Ride with people who are more experienced than you. Ask questions. The only stupid question is the one you didn’t ask.

As for the track and judging yourself by lap times… the way to becoming “fast” is to be smooth. Ask any “fast” guy… it is about having a good line, remembering what you did, and being smooth. Focus on your riding style and being smooth… and speed will come (inevitably).

 

[wakked1]

I know nothing about Fr0ng's crash and his previous track experience other than what I've seen in the related threads, so this may or may not apply to him.

But I really dislike the idea of relatively new riders being assessed--or assessing themselves--by lap times. Good lap times require maximum acceleration, straightaway speed, and braking. Track newbies shouldn't be thinking about any of those things. Mental bandwidth consumed making the bike go fast on the straights is unavailable for finding and focusing on reference points, steering the bike, and developing a feel for what's going on at the contact patches.

Street limitations to high speed don't exist on the track, and I have no problem with using the bike's capabilities there. But the limitations imposed by our ability to concentrate and to learn is no different. And I think it's wrong to encourage newbies to think about lap times until they've mastered the basic skills required to ride safely on the track.

Couldn't agree more, if only I had mojo...

 

[Dar25]

Besides the speed, the confidence and comfort level (ie ability to deal with unexpected) are indicative of rider's abilities for any given pace.

How come so few people understand that % of riding ability is not the ability to make it through a turn. It's the ability to make it through a turn and avoid ANY obsticle/problem that may or may not occur.

Your basing your % of riding ability on your lap time, if you say your riding at 80% you should have had plenty of saftey margin to avoid any problems.

So the logic as I see it is this, start with your bike working perfectly and your riding at 80% of your fastest lap time without crashing. Factor in that your riding a bike with a not-perfect suspention, this increces your riding level to 95%, why because the bike may not be capable of doing what you ask of it, it may not behave how you expect it. Then factor in the saftey margin you've left out, take your fastest lap time, at that pace if a rider went down in front of you would you have had the time/instincts/skill to navigate around the falling rider and bike? Adjust your riding level to 100+% now.

The problem determining what one's riding ability is that it can only truley be tested when an obsticle presents itself. Its easy to navigate a corner at over 100% of your ability. But you'll only know you are within your abilities if you are presented with an obscticle and are able to successfully navigate it.

 

[Gary J]

Re: Re: Some things to ponder about Frong's tagedy

It is common for people to run off T-1 at T-hill. It is a very fast turn.

Wow Girlscanride, ...... this one statement, in your otherwise well presented posting, definitely got my attention!! As that I'd hate anyone to come into this thread, read this statement, and come away with the impression that it's "OK" for them to not worry about running off track in this turn at their 1st (next) trackday at T-Hill.

"People commonly run off T-1 at T-Hill"??? I'm just curious as to how many trackdays you've done at T-Hill? And of those trackdays, how many times have you seen a rider go off the outside of T-1 into the dirt, at what is often near triple digit speeds, without incident resulting?

I've been riding and roadracing at T-Hill for almost 10 years, probably logging close to 20,000 miles around the circuit. How many times have I had my tires drop off the outside of Turn 1? Zero, nada, none. Why? Because doing so is what I consider to be a VERY BAD THING!

Fr0ng had a good line through T-1.

Not being there at the time of Frong's very unfortunate incident, I obviously can't say with authority ........ but based upon the trajectory that his bike ended up taking, after it went off the track ........ and the fact that it went off the pavement in the first place ..... I suspect that your statement that he "had a good line through T-1" ........ at least on that lap, may be open for question.

We all make mistakes, it's only human. Having the ability to honestly assess the cause-effect aspects of any crash that we experience, and not denying the potential that we, as a rider, "did something wrong" ..... is the most successful way that I've seen to minimizing the chances of a repeat performance.

Gary J

 

[Holeshot]

Gary,

Good thoughts. I deleted my posting to her response as it was they typcial, Holeshot-ness post...