Tail Gating

[TheRiddler]

Are you seriously going to say the risk you, as a cop, take is the same as someone like me would be taking?

You might actually be at fault for a rear-ender, but I highly doubt you'd be found at fault.

When was the last time you got a traffic ticket?

I've been found at fault for both collisions I was in while driving a patrol vehicle. Both times my emergency lights were on. 21055 VC makes us exempt from most vehicle codes, and in the same breath 21056 VC makes us required to still drive responsibly.

 

[MapleRoad]

Witnessed a cop get into an accident for which he was clearly at fault about 15 years ago. I stopped because that's the right thing to do. Another six or seven cops showed up to handle the paperwork, statements, etc. They were also there to give their brother a heap of shit for such a dumbass collision. Doesn't seem like an atmosphere where collusion to do-bad-shit is done.

The funny part was that the radio started going, and I heard "westbound on Blossom Hill [static] over 70 mph". 8 cops simultaneously got chase-stiffies. The cop interviewing me starts handing my ID back and wrapping up faster than greased lightning, and then the suspect drives by, and in one of those brain-magic moments, I see him looking to the curb, with 8 cops starting their cars, with an OSHIT look on his face.

It was awesome. I told the cop interviewing me to enjoy himself.

 

[NorCalBusa]

I've been found at fault for both collisions I was in while driving a patrol vehicle. Both times my emergency lights were on. 21055 VC makes us exempt from most vehicle codes, and in the same breath 21056 VC makes us required to still drive responsibly.

Who decided you were at fault?

 

[ctwo]

I've been found at fault for both collisions I was in while driving a patrol vehicle. Both times my emergency lights were on. 21055 VC makes us exempt from most vehicle codes, and in the same breath 21056 VC makes us required to still drive responsibly.

What typically happens when you are found at fault for an accident while on duty? Do you get points on your personal driving record and your personal motorcycle insurance goes up, for example? If you get sued, does your department represent? If you lose, who pays? Does payout come from your personal insurance or department's? Could they go after you directly/individually, could you face a personal financial judgement that could take away your house and savings? I mean for something like running a red light, not DUI (because the thing about the drunk firetruck driver would come up), and they sued for millions because you paralyzed their child...

There is another aspect though that is not corruption, and that is the network support. I guess a point, if the OP's dad was an on-duty cop, would that officer be struggling as much as the OP's dad with insurance?

 

[Junkie]

What typically happens when you are found at fault for an accident while on duty? Do you get points on your personal driving record and your personal motorcycle insurance goes up, for example? If you get sued, does your department represent? If you lose, who pays? Does payout come from your personal insurance or department's? Could they go after you directly/individually, could you face a personal financial judgement that could take away your house and savings? I mean for something like running a red light, not DUI (because the thing about the drunk firetruck driver would come up), and they sued for millions because you paralyzed their child...

There is another aspect though that is not corruption, and that is the network support. I guess a point, if the OP's dad was an on-duty cop, would that officer be struggling as much as the OP's dad with insurance?

17001. A public entity is liable for death or injury to person or property proximately caused by a negligent or wrongful act or omission in the operation of any motor vehicle by an employee of the public entity acting within the scope of his employment.

(collisions are generally caused by negligent acts)

17002. Subject to Article 4 (commencing with Section 825) of Chapter 1 of Part 2 of Division 3.6 of Title 1 of the Government Code, a public entity is liable for death or injury to person or property to the same extent as a private person under the provisions of Article 2 (commencing with Section 17150) of this chapter.

17004. A public employee is not liable for civil damages on account of personal injury to or death of any person or damage to property resulting from the operation, in the line of duty, of an authorized emergency vehicle while responding to an emergency call or when in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law, or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm or other emergency call.

 

[ctwo]

17001. A public entity is liable for death or injury to person or property proximately caused by a negligent or wrongful act or omission in the operation of any motor vehicle by an employee of the public entity acting within the scope of his employment.

(collisions are generally caused by negligent acts)

17002. Subject to Article 4 (commencing with Section 825) of Chapter 1 of Part 2 of Division 3.6 of Title 1 of the Government Code, a public entity is liable for death or injury to person or property to the same extent as a private person under the provisions of Article 2 (commencing with Section 17150) of this chapter.

17004. A public employee is not liable for civil damages on account of personal injury to or death of any person or damage to property resulting from the operation, in the line of duty, of an authorized emergency vehicle while responding to an emergency call or when in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law, or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm or other emergency call.

Thank you, Junkie. I was pretty sure there was some kind of immunity. It is more what I meant in my original statement.

Are you seriously going to say the risk [of illegally tailgaiting] you, as a cop, take is the same as someone like me would be taking?

You might actually be at fault for a rear-ender, but I highly doubt you'd face the same consequences.

...

Now, surely there must be some corruption. I suspect the beneficiaries of that corruption (just generally for discussion) are typically not people like me and are disproportionately within certain population groups.

 

[Shaggy]

What typically happens when you are found at fault for an accident while on duty? Do you get points on your personal driving record and your personal motorcycle insurance goes up, for example? If you get sued, does your department represent? If you lose, who pays? Does payout come from your personal insurance or department's? Could they go after you directly/individually, could you face a personal financial judgement that could take away your house and savings? I mean for something like running a red light, not DUI (because the thing about the drunk firetruck driver would come up), and they sued for millions because you paralyzed their child...

There is another aspect though that is not corruption, and that is the network support. I guess a point, if the OP's dad was an on-duty cop, would that officer be struggling as much as the OP's dad with insurance?

You are comparing apples and bananas. If a truck driver is involved in a collision, they don’t have to go through their personal insurance. Their company’s insurance represents them.

An on-duty collision is not a direct comparison to the OP’s father’s predicament.

 

[Junkie]

My recollection is that on duty collisions don't go on your driving record, but I'm having trouble finding the law that says that.

Is that correct? Does it apply to all on duty collisions or only when code 3?

If it's all, that's different than the truck driver comparison.

 

[dravnx]

Careful Ctwo, you're suggesting there is corruption within the public service agencies who graciously provide this valuable resource to Barf. You may want to back off a bit.

 

[TheRiddler]

Who decided you were at fault?

My department.

My recollection is that on duty collisions don't go on your driving record, but I'm having trouble finding the law that says that.

Is that correct? Does it apply to all on duty collisions or only when code 3?

If it's all, that's different than the truck driver comparison.

They do and they don't. They do: if you run my driving history, I have two crashes on record. And they don't: they list that I was operating an emergency vehicle and it doesn't affect my personal insurance. Which is fair because I don't drive in my personal vehicle the same way as in an emergency vehicle going to an emergency, and I'm not covered by my personal insurance when driving my work car.

 

[ctwo]

You are comparing apples and bananas. If a truck driver is involved in a collision, they don’t have to go through their personal insurance. Their company’s insurance represents them.

An on-duty collision is not a direct comparison to the OP’s father’s predicament.

I did not know we were limited to comparing situations to just within the OPs context. How would that relate to your comment about cops being at more risk from lawsuit?

I thought we were talking about the difference between an officer's personal risk of illegally tailgating vs joe public me.

I thought you were arguing that you would be at more risk than I for that behavior.

It was a carry on from your statement that illegally tailgating is a weighted risk you are willing to take, and I wanted to point out that is incorrect. You are gambling your department's risk. You don't have much risk at all, the way I see it, if we make an even comparison between you and me, two people and an absolute act. I also thought I wondered how you would be fairing if you were in the OP's dad shoes, as on-duty officer... I think you would have a much smaller headache and your kid probably would not be posting about it on forums. OK, that's not strictly because of your status.

You never answered why, instead, wouldn't you just flash your passing lights (highbeams)? I think that works in Germany

But maybe that is illegal. One person here say's it is illegal on I-80. There was a discussion somewhere not too long ago about that, and I distinctly remember someone showing a picture of a left moto control with the word PASS there by the high beams. It was factory

 

[295566]

I did not know we were limited to comparing situations to just within the OPs context. How would that relate to your comment about cops being at more risk from lawsuit?

I thought we were talking about the difference between an officer's personal risk of illegally tailgating vs joe public me.

I thought you were arguing that you would be at more risk than I for that behavior.

It was a carry on from your statement that illegally tailgating is a weighted risk you are willing to take, and I wanted to point out that is incorrect. You are gambling your department's risk. You don't have much risk at all, the way I see it, if we make an even comparison between you and me, two people and an absolute act. I also thought I wondered how you would be fairing if you were in the OP's dad shoes, as on-duty officer... I think you would have a much smaller headache and your kid probably would not be posting about it on forums. OK, that's not strictly because of your status.

You never answered why, instead, wouldn't you just flash your passing lights (highbeams)? I think that works in Germany

But maybe that is illegal. One person here say's it is illegal on I-80. There was a discussion somewhere not too long ago about that, and I distinctly remember someone showing a picture of a left moto control with the word PASS there by the high beams. It was factory

Smash enough cars and the department can let you go. Drive like an ass, (accident or no), you'll get citizen complaints (yes, this does happen), the department can let you go. So yeah, there's risk associated. It's a different risk, though, than Joe Citizen.

That said...

There's a reason every department I know of got rid of Code 2 driving. You're either Code 3 or you're not (Code 1, following ALL the laws of the road same as Joe Citizen).

 

[ctwo]

Hey man, I'm not one of those privileged hoolis. You think I wouldn't loose just as much or more driving around like an ass and smashing enough cars?

 

[295566]

Hey man, I'm not one of those privileged hoolis. You think I wouldn't loose just as much or more driving around like an ass and smashing enough cars?

Hence why I said it's a different risk. You likely wouldn't lose your job, unless your job involved driving a lot.

 

[Shaggy]

I also thought I wondered how you would be fairing if you were in the OP's dad shoes, as on-duty officer... I think you would have a much smaller headache and your kid probably would not be posting about it on forums. OK, that's not strictly because of your status.

The OP’s father’s issue is with the insurance company, not the police. Insurance companies often assign fault contradictory to a police collision investigation because they are a for-profit business. They are more interested in profits than fact-finding.

You never answered why, instead, wouldn't you just flash your passing lights (highbeams)? I think that works in Germany

I’ve used high beams as an indication that I want to pass also. Nowhere did I say that I ONLY tailgate when I want to go faster or that I always tailgate to get somewhere.

 

[ctwo]

LoL, are we posting in the wrong thread about the OP's father? Nick, maybe if you were off duty, there'd be some reality where your son is posting about your insurance company's fault finding.

295566, but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the presented risk from Nick's action, as a single event to analyze, not extreme chronic behavior.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Let's turn the Crazy dial up a notch. In some states*, officer buy/drive their own vehicles and use them for police work- car, truck and motorcycles. Can you imagine how those claims get handled?

*not heard of it in Kalifornia

 

[Shaggy]

LoL, are we posting in the wrong thread about the OP's father? Nick, maybe if you were off duty, there'd be some reality where your son is posting about your insurance company's fault finding.

295566, but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the presented risk from Nick's action, as a single event to analyze, not extreme chronic behavior.

It appears that we both merged the threads in our own minds.

 

[SBSV650]

I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains and there's not a trip traveling Hwy 17 where I don't have someone driving 65-70 MPH 10 to 3 feet off my rear tire. These are the fools that lose control near the summit and injure or kill people. Please CHP put down the Radar Gun and pull over tailgaters for VC-23103.

Thank you...

It's hard to police tailgaters. I sympathize with you though.

It's like cell phone usage. Even if someone gets a ticket, they're right back at it again.