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Tesla Model 3: End of the Internal-Combustion Engine?

sckego said:
The interest blew away my wildest expectations.
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Me too. The part that was amazing to me? Sight unseen and most likely not getting their car for another two years, these people were dropping deposits. It was a pretty well kept secret as far as the looks. It could've easily wound up looking like a Bolt or a Leaf, but I think it actually looks pretty nice.

Anyone who's seen my musings here pretty much knows I'm not exactly a champion for Tesla. But I do think....on paper....this car is a home run. And Tesla has officially become the Apple of the car business. Nobody has been or will be camping out to get in line to buy the Bolt. That said, they still aren't out of the woods yet. Their quality control has to get an awful lot better. I see tons of Model S that have shitty paint, body panels just fit "good enough", and I hear the dealer techs spend their days doing nothing but chasing NVH or catastrophic failures like full drive motor replacement. Once the trendiness of Tesla dies off because there's other players in the 200mi range EV pool, if they still have that many quality issues, they'll quickly lose market share.

The Bolt is beating Tesla to market by at least a year. Buuuut. The Bolt is well...not exactly the belle of the ball. It looks like a cheap commuter car. Which it is. But the Model 3 looks more like a proper mass market car. And with 10-15 grand in options, is a legit sports sedan too. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the EV market in the next few years. That's for sure.
 
Holeshot said:
True. Tesla should have taken those deposits in Nevada and not California.
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Lolololol. You want to explain why that's funny or should I?





You'll find this interesting since it's the same topic. Our first NSX customer apparently just backed out. Unfortunately already after we locked in his order. So now when we go to the next guy on the deposit list, he doesn't get it made to order, he'll have to take this one. One that got speced as a stripper with hardly any options. Thanks California!
 
Let's see, I spent $2,000 on my 2002 VW passat 1.8L turbo. Dropped $2,000 into it replacing timing belt and water pump. I'm $4000 TOTAL in on the car and it is good to go for 5 years / 100,000 miles.

Until I can pick up an EV for $5000 I am not saving money getting an EV. The true change from ICE will come when there are old EV out for cheap that cost less to run 100,000 miles.
 
I know this might be a surprise but some people might want a new car and not a 15 year old disaster
 
Nissan Leaf sells for 15K after incentives new in Colorado. If you go there to find a slightly used one you can probably have it for around 7-8k after depreciation. Seems this is the best bang for the buck...have to get it shipped though...range problems.

Tesla is doing good things...anyone talking about where they are getting the precious metals for the batteries in Africa? The heavy mining and pollution it creates vs. switching folks to easily made diesel?
 
Tharkûn said:
I know this might be a surprise but some people might want a new car and not a 15 year old disaster
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I'll have you know it's a clean car :x

Fair point though. Personally I would rather have my '02 disaster, '15 FZ-09, and '16 YZF-R1 rather than a Model 3.
 
madsen203 said:
Tesla is doing good things...anyone talking about where they are getting the precious metals for the batteries in Africa? The heavy mining and pollution it creates vs. switching folks to easily made diesel?
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Africa and North America is where they get their metal. There's a big mine close to where the giga factory is being built. Madagascar has recently found huge deposits as well. No regulations and it's a dirty strip mining process.

I divested myself from Tesla and their supply chain.

If a republican wins and defunds fed tax credits for EV, there goes Tesla's operating income. If they can manage to keep a going concern for long enough to bring costs down and expand production they will be okay.

If a democrat wins and pushes for responsible mining practices, there goes Tesla's future profit margin until they can bring costs down with the giga factory.

Panasonic is helping to fund the factory and I think they are hoping for an opportunity to pick up the PP&E for pennies on the dollar from Tesla should one of the things above result in a substantial doubt regarding their going concern and they shutter or consolidate.

Now, if Musk were to IPO SpaceX...
 
Gabe said:
...for the 1% of drivers who regularly drive more than 200 miles a day.
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Ok. Well i drive to la often. You asked why would anyone not buy one. Thats why. And there are plenty of long range commuters. 215 is max range likely babying it as well.
 
Gabe said:
...for the 1% of drivers who regularly drive more than 200 miles a day.
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The range is ok for families where this is a second car (commute, shopping trips etc.). I wouldn't want one as an only vehicle though.
 
nbean16 said:
Ok. Well i drive to la often. You asked why would anyone not buy one. Thats why. And there are plenty of long range commuters. 215 is max range likely babying it as well.
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You can always stop at the Supercharger station in Colinga and smell cowshit for half an hour (more if there's a line) and you'll get enough juice to make it the rest of the way!



I'm driving to Torrance next week. I'll bet I make it there at least an hour faster than anyone in a Tesla could.
 
madsen203 said:
Nissan Leaf sells for 15K after incentives new in Colorado. If you go there to find a slightly used one you can probably have it for around 7-8k after depreciation. Seems this is the best bang for the buck...have to get it shipped though...range problems.

Tesla is doing good things...anyone talking about where they are getting the precious metals for the batteries in Africa? The heavy mining and pollution it creates vs. switching folks to easily made diesel?
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you rang? :cool
 
I don't drive 200+ mi daily but when I do want to, I want to. So a plug-in hybrid should be more useful. The superchargers could make it work, but they have limited capacities and locations. In terms of global warming and air pollution modern ICE is already so much better than before that I think there are much lower hanging fruit. When I'm on the freeway it's the old vehicles and diesel trucks that spew the most... if we're gonna have incentives they should be for any new car really. And hydrogen still seems more scalable and better in the long run.
 
Smash Allen said:
Africa and North America is where they get their metal. There's a big mine close to where the giga factory is being built. Madagascar has recently found huge deposits as well. No regulations and it's a dirty strip mining process.
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What precious metals specifically?
 
Gabe said:
What precious metals specifically?
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I was referring to the biggest component of the anode of their Li-ion batteries, large-flake graphite. For their cathode, lithium from Western Lithium USA. The anode / graphite isn't likely to change / develop as quickly as the cathode / lithium does.
 
mrzuzzo said:
Really? You'd prefer what looks like an econo-hatch to a sports sedan?
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Yes, I like the layout, easy to throw stuff in the back. Plus, I already have experience with Chevy's battery layout as I geeked out on how my current car, a Chevy Volt, operates.

I guess the future motorhead arguments will move from Mopar vs. Motorcraft to Panasonic (Tesla's battery supplier) vs. LG Chem (Chevy's battery supplier) :p

Indio said:
Why ? I don't understand Nevada v California
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By law, all deposits in California are refundable.
 
Smash Allen said:
If a republican wins and defunds fed tax credits for EV, there goes Tesla's operating income. If they can manage to keep a going concern for long enough to bring costs down and expand production they will be okay.

If a democrat wins and pushes for responsible mining practices, there goes Tesla's future profit margin until they can bring costs down with the giga factory.

Panasonic is helping to fund the factory and I think they are hoping for an opportunity to pick up the PP&E for pennies on the dollar from Tesla should one of the things above result in a substantial doubt regarding their going concern and they shutter or consolidate.
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By the time all that happens oil will be back to $80/barrel and EV's still looking good
 
Nice car but there's no fuel filler door so how do you pump gas innit?
 
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