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Tesla Model 3: End of the Internal-Combustion Engine?

People own cars for a long time, so gas is still going to be a thing even if I am a EV owner. New cars are going to more and more electrified. Hybrid, plug-in hybrid. Its the only way to enhance efficiency. Can't beet 90-100 MPGe of EVs.
 
Not being able to install a fart can exhaust might hurt sales amongst the import tuner ricky rice racers.
 
Killroy1999 said:
Why, may I ask.

Model III has the ~6000 Supercharger network and is a little less.

The city car look of the Bolt (like a Honda Fit) is very functional, but I don't think people think its stylish. I like the shape, but I like the shape of the Model III better.
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Functionality, I have two kids so that adds up to a lot. Also, I prefer the LG Chem system in the Chevy over the Panasonic system in the Teslas. Both are good systems, I just prefer LG Chem.
 
Tesla is truly the Apple of carmakers. People who flock to them are doing so because of the name, not the product. The car itself is mediocre. The other major EV's are better products IMO.
Something that still irritates me is the excess of their lineup. The electric car is supposed to be some sort of green solution, but the cars are far from minimalistic. I'd like to see an actual BTU/mile comparison. I'd bet that they'd be fairly inefficient. No one wants to admit that there is still a carbon footprint in the manufacturing, transport, and the electricity that these cars use. I realize that wasteful ICE cars are nothing new, but the juxtaposition of a luxurious green car is funny to me.
You'll pry my 7.3 diesel stickshift trucks fromy cold dead hands. Moving 18k lbs and getting 12mpg is hard to beat.
 
TheRobSJ said:
Not quite that far back. 1996. Was truly ahead of its time. Full aluminum frame, thermoplastic body panels, magnesium wheels, only 3000lbs(with over 1/3 of that being batteries), and a coefficient of drag that a Honda Insight could only dream of.

It'd be interesting if someone could take one of those EV1s (there's only a handful left)and retrofit it with a modern lithium ion pack. I bet it could probably go 400+ miles on a charge.


And yeah I'm hoping the EV demand makes gas cheaper. I like burning gas.
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diesel all the way baby. :party

i will gladly sit in my 3/4 ton truck all comfy and safe, and a room with a view. :teeth

try getting plowed into in you little toy battery powered cage, by a fool doing 90mph +.

sure a 4X4 gets only 19 mpg avg. but has a range of over 450 miles to a factory tank. open rd even better.
extended tank? my bladder would burst first.
refuel stop to back on the hwy in 5 min or less.
and i can haul everything and then some needed in life. plenty of room for 4-5 dogs (large ones). and sits six in comfort. aka: elbow, knee room.
then there's the bed.

all factory, no chip, no stupid over sized exhaust tip. and no smoke coming out the tail pipe.
.

.
 
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Jalopyshoppe said:
Tesla is truly the Apple of carmakers. People who flock to them are doing so because of the name, not the product. The car itself is mediocre. The other major EV's are better products IMO.
Something that still irritates me is the excess of their lineup. The electric car is supposed to be some sort of green solution, but the cars are far from minimalistic. I'd like to see an actual BTU/mile comparison. I'd bet that they'd be fairly inefficient. No one wants to admit that there is still a carbon footprint in the manufacturing, transport, and the electricity that these cars use. I realize that wasteful ICE cars are nothing new, but the juxtaposition of a luxurious green car is funny to me.
You'll pry my 7.3 diesel stickshift trucks fromy cold dead hands. Moving 18k lbs and getting 12mpg is hard to beat.
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completely disagree. with regard to tesla, much is aspirational, and they are selling something that does not currently exist. they have yet to make a profit, and this smacks of a bizarre unconventional financing scheme. they raised $200,000,000 on this exploit alone. whereas like/agree with them or not, apple does not rely on such bizarre funding tactics. they make it or not based on their own effort and internal funding of same.
 
packnrat said:
diesel all the way baby. :party

i will gladly sit in my 3/4 ton truck all comfy and safe, and a room with a view. :teeth

try getting plowed into in you little toy battery powered cage, by a fool doing 90mph +.

sure a 4X4 gets only 19 mpg avg. but has a range of over 450 miles to a factory tank. open rd even better.
extended tank? my bladder would burst first.
refuel stop to back on the hwy in 5 min or less.
and i can haul everything and then some needed in life. plenty of room for 4-5 dogs (large ones). and sits six in comfort. aka: elbow, knee room.
then there's the bed.

all factory, no chip, no stupid over sized exhaust tip. and no smoke coming out the tail pipe.
.

.
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I used a flash tuner for both my trucks. Both 4x4 sticks, but the 97 is the old body style which lacks an intercooler.
Deleting the cat, flashing the ECU, and going 3" downpipe, 4" mandrel bent saw a significant (300-400 degree) drop in EGT's and an increase from 19 to 22 mpg empty.

The 99 has 4" turbo back mandrel bent exhaust, a desert storm intake, and a flash tune. No EGT gauge, but mileage went from 17 to 20mpg empty.

Both trucks tow 10,000lbs frequently, and the tunes increased economy by 2 mpg while towing and made it comfortable to tow at 75 mph.

Neither truck "rolls coal", but the mods really made them better tools. I paid less for both combined than the price of one Model 3. I wanna see how many Model 3's are around in 10 years, and compare that to how many miles my trucks covered.
 
I wanna see a tesla 3 tow 10,000lbs.... :x

If you want to make a cherry pie, don't buy apple pie filling.
 
I put in a deposit before the reveal last night (online). I wanted to get my reserve in so I can hopefully still get the federal tax rebate. They are up to 232k orders as of 3 hours ago according to Elon.

For those who don't know, the federal tax rebate runs out ($7,500) after a manufacturer sells 200k vehicles that qualify inside the U.S. After that, for 6 months the feds will give you $3,750 tax rebate at no limit for production. for 6months after that they will do $1,500 tax rebate at no limit to phase it out completely.

I'm not positive if the 200k is "produced" vehicles or "sold" vehicles. I'll have to figure that out.

Reservations do include MANY foreign countries but I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna drop out of reservations because once the final purchase agreement comes people will think twice about dropping $35,000. Elon is saying with an average mix of options it will be around $42,000.

Most of this via his Twitter.
 
littlebeast said:
completely disagree. with regard to tesla, much is aspirational, and they are selling something that does not currently exist. they have yet to make a profit, and this smacks of a bizarre unconventional financing scheme. they raised $200,000,000 on this exploit alone. whereas like/agree with them or not, apple does not rely on such bizarre funding tactics. they make it or not based on their own effort and internal funding of same.
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People will stand in line for whatever trinket Apple offers, because it's Apple. Tesla has a similar following of people who will buy this thing sight unseen because they believe in some idea.
Apple sells mediocre smartphones and tablets with elegant designs and trademark shapes that are easily identifiable. Instant casual status symbols. Tesla does the same thing with electric cars. No one gives a fuck about your nameless useful Android, but flashing an iPhone 1100 makes you part of a group of "non conformists" who threw caution to the wind and adopted a non-establishment computer/phone/electronic toy. Once you get hooked in, you're fucked. Apple phones require Apple computers to perform properly. They don't integrate seamlessly with PC based systems. They can do it, but you lose some performance. Tesla is doing the same thing with chargers and service now. They're creating an alternative operating system. It gives buyers an exclusive non conformist mentality that makes owning a mediocre product that costs a premium seem perfectly okay.
No thanks
 
teg916 said:
The question is, how long does the battery last, and how much does it cost to replace.

If you have to replace the battery after 100K miles, then your batteries cost you 10 cents per mile.

A gasoline powered car that gets 40 MPG will cost you 10 cents per mile if gas is $4 per gallon.



Also, if you want to drive down to LA, how long will the line at the charging station half way there be if it takes 30 mins per car to recharge?
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Hybrids, by Ca law, have a 10 year, 150K mile warranty on all components of the hybrid system. Full electrics do not. Sorry Tesla/ Bolt onwers...I'll take my 150K mile warranty any day and burn a little gas. Fred too.
 
teg916 said:
The question is, how long does the battery last, and how much does it cost to replace.

If you have to replace the battery after 100K miles, then your batteries cost you 10 cents per mile.

A gasoline powered car that gets 40 MPG will cost you 10 cents per mile if gas is $4 per gallon.



Also, if you want to drive down to LA, how long will the line at the charging station half way there be if it takes 30 mins per car to recharge?
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There is also more costs to maintaining ICE car, lets not forget that. Not to mention how many cars actually get 40mpgs?

Good point on charging time. Fast chargers are either need to be pretty much at every parking spot, or how charging works needs to be re-thought drastically. Host swapping battery packs with cost of depreciation factored in somehow?
 
Ill stick to my crude deisels and my low brow combustin motorcycles, thanks. But yea, cool to see it ganing momentum.
 
Seems like I'm one of the few who have no interest in owning a Tesla or electric ? Seems so blah and soulless to me. I really hope / think Gabe is wrong about no one buying gas in 10 years.
 
Jalopyshoppe said:
People will stand in line for whatever trinket Apple offers, because it's Apple. Tesla has a similar following of people who will buy this thing sight unseen because they believe in some idea.
Apple sells mediocre smartphones and tablets with elegant designs and trademark shapes that are easily identifiable. Instant casual status symbols. Tesla does the same thing with electric cars. No one gives a fuck about your nameless useful Android, but flashing an iPhone 1100 makes you part of a group of "non conformists" who threw caution to the wind and adopted a non-establishment computer/phone/electronic toy. Once you get hooked in, you're fucked. Apple phones require Apple computers to perform properly. They don't integrate seamlessly with PC based systems. They can do it, but you lose some performance. Tesla is doing the same thing with chargers and service now. They're creating an alternative operating system. It gives buyers an exclusive non conformist mentality that makes owning a mediocre product that costs a premium seem perfectly okay.
No thanks
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regardless of your diatribe, the fundamental difference in this example is that apple is entirely self funding. they have never asked their customers to pay for anything that as yet, even speculatively, did not already exist.
 
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