The Electric Motorcycle Thread

[65_ dreamer]

Was up at Mission Moto Harley today and they have a LiveWire in the back. It's a great looking bike in person. Wasn't able to sit on it (didn't ask as it had a note on it and I thought it was already purchased) but they did turn it on really quick. Later I found out that it appears to be a bike from Milwaukee that's just meant to sit on the floor. They are not allowed to use it for Demo's or anything. They say they hope to get a demo bike soon.

One of the reason's they don't have it out on the main floor, I guess, is they are worried someone will turn it on and blip the throttle.. and of course.. wreck the bike.

Hoping they get a demo bike soon so I can go take a quick spin on one.

I went to the demo event they had at the Palace of Fine Arts last weekend. We were riding in the Presidio, so there was quite a bit of traffic and we didn't get to go far, but I was pretty impressed with the LiveWire.

It felt heavy when I initially sat on it, but as soon as it started moving, the weight was a non-issue. Not having a clutch took a bit of getting used to, but it was really easy to maneuver the traffic and people at very low speeds.

The throttle was really smooth and super responsive. The instant acceleration was nice. If they have another demo event, I'd highly recommend trying to take one out for a spin. I only wish we could have one farther and ridden longer....

 

[morroquen]

Zero SR/F or Energica Eva?

Hi there,

I was wondering if you guys would be able to help me decide on which electric motorcycle to buy.

I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and commute 30 miles each way from my home in the East Bay to San Francisco, for a 60 mile total commute every day. I currently have a BMW R1200GS and an Aprilia Tuono Factory, which I use to lane split on weekdays and go on fun rides with friends on the weekends.

I've been seriously considering getting an electric motorcycle for my commuting needs. Both the SR/F and the Energica Eva /Esse Esse appeal to me with their naked bike style, similar power and range, and seemingly similar weight.

Price is not really a factor as both the Zero and the Energica are similarly priced. What's really important to me are range, charging capability, reliability and overall "what's better bike?" based on riding dynamics.

It would be super beneficial to have a perspective on how these two motorcycles compare, and how to choose between the two.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks!

 

[DonTom]

Hi there,

I was wondering if you guys would be able to help me decide on which electric motorcycle to buy.

I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and commute 30 miles each way from my home in the East Bay to San Francisco, for a 60 mile total commute every day. I currently have a BMW R1200GS and an Aprilia Tuono Factory, which I use to lane split on weekdays and go on fun rides with friends on the weekends.

I've been seriously considering getting an electric motorcycle for my commuting needs. Both the SR/F and the Energica Eva /Esse Esse appeal to me with their naked bike style, similar power and range, and seemingly similar weight.

Price is not really a factor as both the Zero and the Energica are similarly priced. What's really important to me are range, charging capability, reliability and overall "what's better bike?" based on riding dynamics.

It would be super beneficial to have a perspective on how these two motorcycles compare, and how to choose between the two.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks!

I have two Zeros and an Energica Esse Esse 9.

60 miles on the SS9 could be a problem if you're above the freeway speed limit or have a head wind or uphill, etc. But to me, the fast charging is a lot more important than range. 60 miles on a Zero SR (not the "/F") with power tank is nothing, but it takes forever to charge, even with extra chargers. The SR/F is very uncomfortable for taller people & IMO and had no real advantage other than power, and somewhat faster on-board charging, but nothing close to the Energica. The plain SR is more comfy, has better range and still has more than enough power. However, slower on-board charging than the /F.

A lot of this depends on your location and where they have CCS fast charging (for Energica only) as well as other types of charging available and how much time you have to charge. If you can charge at work, that is very helpful.

The Energica is a better freeway bike and is also good for tight parking as it has a reverse and slow forward (1.75 MPH at WOT).

I like the Energica for the freeway and longer rides, I like the lighter Zeros for in town stuff.

If you're in traffic every day, you will have no problem with 60 miles on the Energica. The low range per charge is mainly for when you can drive fast. On any of the electric bikes, you get roughly half the range each time the speed is doubled.

The SR/F standard charges at 1.5 KW on Level One (120 VAC), 3 KW on level Two (240 VAC). The premium charges at 6 KW on Level Two. The onboard charger on the plain SF is only 1.3 KW. But extra external chargers can be added. I can charge my SR at 8.4 KW at home, and at 6.3 KW on the road with extra chargers (one 2.5 KW charger in each saddebag plus the OBC). 8.4 KW is too much to carry on the bike, but I have charged my Zeros at that rate at home.

The Energica can charge at Level One at 1.5 KW, level Two at 3.0 KW and Level 3 (300 VDC) at 25 KW.

The SR can charge at 240 VAC but at the same rate as level one (120 VAC), 1.4 KW. HD Livewire is the same as this.

The HD Livewire can only charge at 12 KW on Level three. Twice as long as my Energica on level two or three charging.

There is a lot to consider to figure which would be best for your commute.

To see what type of charge stations are available in areas you will be, see here and learn how to use it. Always read about the station you select. Some may not be available to all, but it will say such.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Price is not really a factor as both the Zero and the Energica are similarly priced. What's really important to me are range, charging capability, reliability and overall "what's better bike?" based on riding dynamics.

It would be super beneficial to have a perspective on how these two motorcycles compare, and how to choose between the two.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks!

I see I forgot to reply to that part.

It was the test ride on the Zero SR/F that made me decide to buy the Energica, which was a hassle for me to buy because I had to go to Mtn. View to do the paperwork and then had it shipped to my other house in Auburn. But I am glad that I did. I could have purchased the SR/F just a few miles from here in Reno.

I would say the Energica is better than the SR/F in every way possible, other than perhaps maintenance. The Energicas have coolant as well as tranny oil. But it keeps the performance up by keeping the motor and electronics cooler.

BTW, have you at least sat on an SR/F? Foot pegs up too high, more sporty riding position (neck has to be held up a little). No adjustments.

OTOH, the SS9 is VERY comfy to me. And is a blast to ride. And even looks a lot better, IMO. So my vote will be for the Energica.

But they both perform very well, both are scary fast in sport mode.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[morroquen]

Thank you so much for your responses, Don! Super helpful perspective. A couple of things I'm curious about.

60 miles on the SS9 could be a problem if you're above the freeway speed limit or have a head wind or uphill, etc.

It'll be 60 miles while splitting lanes on 880, so the occasional spurt of speed otherwise mostly under 50mph. Do you still think that could be stretching the range of bike too much?

I don't have charging options at work - I park on the street in SF, and the nearest charging infrastructure is just 2 spots, almost always occupied by cars. I'd love to install a level 2 charger at home to charge the bike. Already have one for the Tesla Model 3 in the garage.

I would say the Energica is better than the SR/F in every way possible, other than perhaps maintenance. The Energicas have coolant as well as tranny oil. But it keeps the performance up by keeping the motor and electronics cooler.

BTW, have you at least sat on an SR/F? Foot pegs up too high, more sporty riding position (neck has to be held up a little). No adjustments.

How often do you have a refill coolant /check and change that oil?

I did sit on both bikes, in both dealerships (SJ BMW and Calmoto) and they're both comfy for me as I'm short and used to the aggressive Tuono seating position.

Overall I'm leaning towards the Energica Esse Esse as well, but just worried about the range for my commute. At least with the Zero I can add the charge tank when it becomes available and get a little bit more range for peace of mind.

 

[MikeL]

I went to the demo event they had at the Palace of Fine Arts last weekend. We were riding in the Presidio, so there was quite a bit of traffic and we didn't get to go far, but I was pretty impressed with the LiveWire.

It felt heavy when I initially sat on it, but as soon as it started moving, the weight was a non-issue. Not having a clutch took a bit of getting used to, but it was really easy to maneuver the traffic and people at very low speeds.

The throttle was really smooth and super responsive. The instant acceleration was nice. If they have another demo event, I'd highly recommend trying to take one out for a spin. I only wish we could have one farther and ridden longer....

I was really bummed I missed it! I had already made plans that weekend so I had to pass. Hopefully they bring it back to the area.

 

[DonTom]

Thank you so much for your responses, Don! Super helpful perspective. A couple of things I'm curious about.

It'll be 60 miles while splitting lanes on 880, so the occasional spurt of speed otherwise mostly under 50mph. Do you still think that could be stretching the range of bike too much?

I don't have charging options at work - I park on the street in SF, and the nearest charging infrastructure is just 2 spots, almost always occupied by cars. I'd love to install a level 2 charger at home to charge the bike. Already have one for the Tesla Model 3 in the garage.

How often do you have a refill coolant /check and change that oil?

I did sit on both bikes, in both dealerships (SJ BMW and Calmoto) and they're both comfy for me as I'm short and used to the aggressive Tuono seating position.

Overall I'm leaning towards the Energica Esse Esse as well, but just worried about the range for my commute. At least with the Zero I can add the charge tank when it becomes available and get a little bit more range for peace of mind.

Do you mean 60 miles round trip or one way? If one way, you will have to recharge somewhere on the trip for about 15 minutes on a CCS charger.

Your Tesla Wall Connector will work to charge the SS9 at home. Just buy one of these. I also own a Tesla Model 3 (AWD, LR) and I have such a charge station at all three of my houses. It will also work on Tesla Destination chargers.

I am meeting a buddy in a few minutes, I will reply again in a few hours.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

At least with the Zero I can add the charge tank when it becomes available and get a little bit more range for peace of mind.

I think you must mean Power Tank, not "Charge Tank". BTW, have you considered the Energica Ego? Being short and not minding a sporty ride opens up a few more options, any you will probably even find the Zero SR/F to be fine as is.

Be sure to join the electric motorcycle forum here.


-Don- Reno, NV

 

[morroquen]

60 miles one way or round trip?

60 miles round trip.

Charge tank

Yes sorry, I meant the power tank.

Joining that forum now, thanks!

 

[redtail]

Harley doesn't seem to care for much idiot proofing.

It's a law in some places, I know Canada requires the kick stand cutoff switch. So if they want Canadian butts in a Harley seat, they have to care.

 

[R3DS!X]

Hi there,

I was wondering if you guys would be able to help me decide on which electric motorcycle to buy.

I live in the San Francisco Bay area, and commute 30 miles each way from my home in the East Bay to San Francisco, for a 60 mile total commute every day. I currently have a BMW R1200GS and an Aprilia Tuono Factory, which I use to lane split on weekdays and go on fun rides with friends on the weekends.

I've been seriously considering getting an electric motorcycle for my commuting needs. Both the SR/F and the Energica Eva /Esse Esse appeal to me with their naked bike style, similar power and range, and seemingly similar weight.

Price is not really a factor as both the Zero and the Energica are similarly priced. What's really important to me are range, charging capability, reliability and overall "what's better bike?" based on riding dynamics.

It would be super beneficial to have a perspective on how these two motorcycles compare, and how to choose between the two.

Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks!

Very happy with my Energica. I Can't recommend it enough. One of the best bikes I've owned.

You can read my thoughts on the bike here: https://www.electric.motorcycles/post/the-future-is-electric

 

[HadesOmega]

For commuting you would want some thing with the most range. If your goal is to get to work and back without charging. Just make sure you don't forget to plug it in. The SR/F has some charging features like charge at certain times or charge to a certain percentage. They really went all out with the electronics with the SR/F.

60 miles is about the limit of all the electric bikes. My Empulse get's 60 miles mixed riding, that's like realistic mileage. Your best bet is to get something like a SR with the powertank on it to maximize the range. And add a windscreen to it so it's more aerodynamic on the freeway. Also temperature affects the range as well you have to take that into account. When the temps are cold you will get reduced range. At freezing temps the bike may not charge at all like my Light Bee.

Someone should really make a range table with real world ranges. I'll make the first entry

Empulse TT - 60 miles, after 50 you better be looking for a chargestation

Have you looked at a BMW C Evolution scooter? I test rode one a while back and thought it would make a great commuter. It's really comfortable, got good wind protection, and it has a trunk. You can add a top case to the rack and have even more space. I'm not sure about the range on it BMW says it's 99 miles but you know it's probably not.

I was gonna say rent a SR for a few days because I saw one on twisted road a while back and see if it can get you to work and back, but I don't see it on there anymore =/

If cost is no concern look into the Livewire also.

 

[DonTom]

60 miles is about the limit of all the electric bikes.

If range is the main issue here, I would go with the plain 2018 or later SR (not the "/F") with PowerTank. That will do the 60 miles with ease and then some. IIRC, 224 miles city and 112 miles freeway spec and is reasonably accurate. Remember, there is still some range left when it shows zero miles left at zero percent of charge. Perhaps as much as ten miles in "reserve". If you take that into consideration, the range is quite close, sometimes even more than their spec.

If it is ever ran down near that far, it is very important to recharge ASAP.

It will take longer to charge than most people can sleep so it's best to add at least one Delta Quick Charger.

And to get the SR (not the F) with power tank, all should be available. Nothing to wait for, unlike the SR/F.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[295566]

If range is the main issue here, I would go with the plain 2018 or later SR (not the "/F") with PowerTank. That will do the 60 miles with ease and then some. IIRC, 224 miles city and 112 miles freeway spec and is reasonably accurate. Remember, there is still some range left when it shows zero miles left at zero percent of charge. Perhaps as much as ten miles in "reserve". If you take that into consideration, the range is quite close, sometimes even more than their spec.

If it is ever ran down near that far, it is very important to recharge ASAP.

It will take longer to charge than most people can sleep so it's best to add at least one Delta Quick Charger.

And to get the SR (not the F) with power tank, all should be available. Nothing to wait for, unlike the SR/F.

-Don- Reno, NV

Unfortunately then you're looking at a $19k bike, before taxes/title/license. That's a LOT for a commuter bike which will be (technologically) irrelevant in a few years, which leads to massive depreciation.

 

[MikeL]

Was just outside of my work and an Energica (not sure which one) went by and it sounded amazing.

 

[Killroy1999]

Unfortunately then you're looking at a $19k bike, before taxes/title/license. That's a LOT for a commuter bike which will be (technologically) irrelevant in a few years, which leads to massive depreciation.

I talked with San Jose BMW/Zero 2 weeks ago and they have been selling a few SR/F. There should be a good used/demo market for me

 

[morroquen]

Very happy with my Energica. I Can't recommend it enough. One of the best bikes I've owned.

Great writeup, thank you! Makes me want the Energica for sure as it seems to be the better bike, but the range is a challenge for my current use case.

The SR/F has some charging features like charge at certain times or charge to a certain percentage.

So wait, are you saying that the Zero SR or DSR doesn't have that capability? (charge to a certain percentage)

Your best bet is to get something like a SR with the powertank on it to maximize the range. And add a windscreen to it so it's more aerodynamic on the freeway.

That does look like a viable option at this stage.

Also temperature affects the range as well you have to take that into account. When the temps are cold you will get reduced range. At freezing temps the bike may not charge at all like my Light Bee.

The SF Bay Area doesn't get super cold, so I'm hoping it won't make a huge difference.

Have you looked at a BMW C Evolution scooter?

I have - the BMW is interesting but doesn't appeal to me.

If cost is no concern look into the Livewire also.

I would look at the Livewire too, sure. I'm not sure how to compare these three (Zero / Energica / Livewire) and if my range needs would be met.

If range is the main issue here, I would go with the plain 2018 or later SR (not the "/F") with PowerTank.

Yes, I'll go test ride one this weekend.

...add at least one Delta Quick Charger

What's a Delta quick charger?

Unfortunately then you're looking at a $19k bike, before taxes/title/license. That's a LOT for a commuter bike which will be (technologically) irrelevant in a few years, which leads to massive depreciation.

Yes, and that's ok to me, as commuting to work is my primary use case for this electric bike, and I can justify the costs to myself when you factor fuel and maintenance on high mileage internal combustion engine bikes.

 

[DonTom]

To stop charging on the Zeros (other than the 2020 SR/F) you have to pull the plug or let the charge complete at 100%. The SR/F and Energicas are more like your Tesla M3. You can set where they stop charging.

The On-board Charger is only 1.3 KW on the Zeros other than the SR/F. Zero sells extra chargers which are made by Delta-Q. So you can speed up your charging. I am using two of them now, charging my Zero DS with two extra such chargers. Also, an extra "Y" cable is needed if there is more than one quick charger added.

Each of these chargers are 1 KW each. Just a little less than the OBC (On-Board Charger). With three added Y-cables, you can add up to four of these chargers with the OBC and have around 5.3 KW of charging.

These cannot be added to the 2020 Zero SR/F. But can be used with all the earlier Zeros. The SR/F has a better system, up to 12KW possible all built in. But the full 12KW is kinda useless in the USA.

You cannot have both, the power tank and the charge tank. They take up the same space on the bike. You want the power tank, not the charge tank.

Anyway, for your situation, I would want to have a Zero SR/with powertank, year 2018 or later, so you get the 14.4 KWH main battery with the 3.6 KWH Power tank for a total of 18KW. That is the most range you will get on any e-bike these days.

Here are the specs. Be sure to select the SR with power tank (will show a 223 mile city range).

If you have never ridden an electric motorcycle before, you will be very impressed with the Zero SR with Power tank, when in the Sport mode. Hold on!

But the Energicas and SR/F are kinda ridiculous in their max power, IMO.

My advice to you for work would be the 2018 or later Zero SR (no F). 2018 models have ten per cent more range than my SR because the battery is 10% larger. And one Quick charger to start with. No Y cable needed for only one charger.

But if you want an extra fun bike play and really going places other than work, it's the Energica. I think 60 miles is cutting it too close for the SS9.

However, there are rumors that Energica will have a 20 KWH battery by next year. Now they are only 11.7 KWH. If you wait for the 2021 models, . . .

But there is a lot of vaporware with electric motorcycles. I almost want to say do not believe anything until the day you can buy it.

-Don- Cold Springs Valley, NV

 

[HadesOmega]

Yeah I wish my Empulse had that feature, had they continued developing it maybe. But What I would use it for is to have it plugged in and start charging at midnight or whenever your electricity bill is cheapest. Sometimes I don't ride my bike for awhile, it's best to leave the battery at 80% charge so that's where charge to a certain percentage comes in handy. So I have to do all that kind of stuff manually, wait till midnight plug in the bike, come back later and unplug it when it's at 80%. But charging at home is where it's at, charging on the road costs more if you have to pay for it.

If you got solar panels on your home even better charge whenever you want haha. You're pretty much self sufficient. You're creating your own energy sorta.

I would say the S/SR/DS/DSR with the powertank would make the best commuter because it's the lowest maintenance also. No chain to adjust or oil to change. My Empulse I have to do chain maintenance and change the gearbox oil every 3k miles. Then at like 18k I need to change the coolant. It's a high performance motorcycle so that's the things you gotta do to keep it going. The Zeroes don't have any of that.

But yeah if I were you I'd search for a something like a SR with a powertank on the used market.

 

[HadesOmega]

Yamaha has created a terminator bike. That's a really cool articulating swingarm.

[youtube]4Lx0ZJGgsFs[/youtube]