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The Electric Motorcycle Thread

blooot said:
I don't know, sure it's a lot of money but it's a RARE and significant vehicle being the first real self developed EV moto from an established manufacturer (meaning it will have long term support). That's gotta count for something right? I guess I'm looking at it more as a collector item than a daily riding value proposition, and for that a 1/3 price cut after less than 1k miles definitely makes it more attractive.
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Not sure if Harley's first failed attempt at an EV will be collectable. Let's be honest, the reason it's rare is because the demand for that bike never really existed in the first place.

Keep in mind the battery will probably degrade regardless if it will be ridden or not.
 
mrzuzzo said:
Not sure if Harley's first failed attempt at an EV will be collectable. Let's be honest, the reason it's rare is because the demand for that bike never really existed in the first place.

Keep in mind the battery will probably degrade regardless if it will be ridden or not.
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Fair enough. I am certainly not in the market for one. The batteries should be good for 10+ years, but after that, it could be bricked, which would be sad.

Maybe 2031 battery technology (with higher energy densities cells) will allow for "modern" battery retrofits with capacity upgrades.
 
Well the battery on my Empulse TT lasted me almost 4 years. But I knew for sure the cells were still good just the sensors were messed up. All I can say is keep your electric bike out of wet places.

To replace one of the packs was like $7000
 
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HadesOmega said:
Livewire is sold but there is this
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/mcy/d/aptos-energica-eva-ribelle-21kwh/7321832141.html

Kinda not worth it since it's not brand new so you won't get any of the rebates and stuff for it anymore. But I guess you'll save on dealer fees and stuff.
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Not worth it at all. Might as well get a new one with full warranty.

I wonder if there will be some massive rebates from the federal government on electric motos. I know they are planning some huge rebates on EVs including the expensive Teslas. Will suck if motorcycles get excluded.
 
Yeah don't know about federal but California has increased the rebates on motos. Basically the more battery capacity it has the more money you get back. When I got the rebate for my Empulse it was $900, it's almost doubled ($1500) for a bike with something like a 15kwh pack and up. So bikes like the SR/F/S, Livewire, Energica+, SR+power tank, would get the full amount. But I'm sure you can get a tax credit for it. I got like a $2k tax credit, I know the cars can get up to $7500 so better work hard that year!

Hah it's too bad they don't make a hydrogen powered bike yet I bet California will literally pay you to ride that.
 
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hydrogen is a joke
 
If it's a joke then why is California and a good amount of the world investing in it? Not having to worry about batteries going bad, not having the weight and inefficiencies of heavy batteries, 5 minute fillups, range comparable and even better than ICE cars doesn't sound like a joke to me. FCEV works just the infrastructure isn't there. Like it or not hydrogen is going to happen.
 
HadesOmega said:
With more than 10,000 FCEVs on the road doesn't seem like a joke

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/california-fcev-sales-fceb-hydrogen-station-data-as-of-may-1-2021/
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And by the turn of the century the U.S. had ~33k electric vehicles on the road. It only took another 107 years for them to return.

The U.S. has 286.9 million vehicles registered...

Yes, 10,000 is a joke. The majority of those being Toyota Mirai, with almost 6,200 sold in the U.S.

I'm not anti-hydrogen. I just don't see it taking over the personal transport sector anytime soon. I think fleets/semi's/buses are great. Especially if the sources of the hydrogen are clean.
 
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It's too much of an undertaking building hydrogen fueling stations plus the cost of hydrogen. I also am not against the tech, i just dont ever see it being viable for the masses.

The charging stations for EV's just need to be hooked up to the lines. installation is fairly straightforward and can be installed in most areas.

installing a hydrogen refueling station is a PITA, a larger undertaking and then you have this waste of space for 2-3 cars a day on a busy day? Then it has to get inspections periodically. no one wants that shit.

Charging stations are getting cheaper and cheaper and can allow businesses to generate passive income. for a much lower investment. not to mention you can install your own damn station at home.
 
Hydrogen is really expensive to make. I'm pretty sure it's significantly more than gasoline.

The issue with charging infrastructure is fast charging. Those stations aren't that easy to build and you need a good amount of electrical grid infrastructure to support them.
 
Hydrogen cars have been for sale since when, 2015? Six years, and only 10k units have moved(most are probably leased to top it off)? I'm amazed anyone even bothers to produce them at this point. Toyota must own, or have lots of shares in a hydrogen producer to cling to it this long, lol. If that were a single gas model, it would have been discontinued three years ago. EV's are a tough enough sell, good luck getting the masses interested in hydrogen.
 
novaks47 said:
Hydrogen cars have been for sale since when, 2015? Six years, and only 10k units have moved(most are probably leased to top it off)? I'm amazed anyone even bothers to produce them at this point. Toyota must own, or have lots of shares in a hydrogen producer to cling to it this long, lol. If that were a single gas model, it would have been discontinued three years ago. EV's are a tough enough sell, good luck getting the masses interested in hydrogen.
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Well a lot of the world is invested in hydrogen, in the US it's really only the country of California investing in it. Supposedly it has many other applications other than automobiles like powering ships and heavy equipment. But yeah there is the problem is grey hydrogen or dirty hydrogen where the power to produce it comes from dirty sources like coal power. Then there's green hydrogen where renewable energy is used to produce it. The tech is there but the infrastructure is not. I think a lot of Asian countries are betting on hydrogen. So I think no matter what there will be advances for hydrogen and we already have the infrastructure in California. I think in Japan they have a whole city that is powered by hydrogen.

There was some talk about being able to fill up your hydrogen vehicle at home using natural gas to make the hydrogen also. But I guess the purity of the hydrogen would come into question. But yeah that would be grey hydrogen.

Something I would really like is a hydrogen fuel cell generator. That way you can make power like a gas generator but not noise or pollution. That would be something I would be interested in especially for camping. Then you can drink the water coming out of it too haha. But if you can have something like that and fill up something like a propane tank but with hydrogen I would like that.

When fuel cell tech is more readily available I would like to do a lot of DIY stuff with it like build a motorcycle or generator. I know Toyota is making their fuel cell stacks available for stuff like that.

The way I see it is I don't think hydrogen will go away but it will be used in tandem with battery electric technology/vehicles. One thing that hydrogen is good for is apartment dwellers that don't have access to chargers.

I heard that you could build a self contained hydrogen station where it would have a solar array and it would make hydrogen but I don't know how far along they are with that tech. I did a lot of research on renewable energy when I was in college but that was a while ago.

Also I would think hydrogen fuel cell would be good for racing applications. The current problem with electric motorcycles is the battery get's hot. My Empulse had a watercooled more so the motor stayed cool but the battery would just get hotter and hotter as you charge and discharge it heavily. When it get's too hot you will get thermal cutback and loose regen. With a hydrogen fuel cell I don't think you would have that problem you could just exchange the tank out for another one. Hydrogen fuel cells have very small batteries onboard I guess to smoothen out the flow of energy kind of like a capacitor.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking hydrogen, or any other tech for that matter. Heck, I love electric, and I think hydrogen could turn out to be a great alternative. But I'm focused more on adoption, and I just don't see the masses going for it. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Just look at all the FUD that still sticks to EVs. I don't even want to know what nonsense/myths that the masses will come up with for hydrogen cars. Remember, the masses don't care about all the technical details and benefits that we do. I do think hydrogen has a better chance of mass adoption at least, with a slight edge over EVs. At least the Mirai is on point for specs, long range, very good mileage, and no longer looks like a Prius made even uglier. More cars like that, and it just might catch on.
 
Toyota is going to be racing with a hydrogen ICE powered corolla in an endurance race this month. It has a 3 cylinder turbocharged engine. Would be interesting to see how they do, curious why they didn't use a FCEV instead. Toyota likes to try different things I guess. I'm not a big fan of hydrogen combustion engine though they don't seem efficient but if there were a lot of hydrogen it is much cleaner combustion than gasoline. Supposedly it's not efficient, but I guess Toyota is out to prove that it is by racing in an endurance race with it. So there might be hope for the internal combustion engine yet.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/...yota-corolla-makes-its-first-run-at-fuji.html

2021-ROOKIE-Racing-Toyota-Corolla-Sport-Hydrogen_Fuji-Test.jpg


[YOUTUBE]2dgzKW8EKMc[/YOUTUBE]


Also remember the Segway Ninebot Apex? Well they're making the Apex H2! It can go like 93mph, 0-60 in 4 seconds, and makes like 80HP. Supposedly it will be around $10,000 also. It has removable hydrogen canisters also like a BBQ grill on wheels =P Will be interesting when we get to see the actual bike.

https://electrek.co/2021/04/07/segway-apex-h2-hybrid-hydrogen-electric-motorcycle/

Screen-Shot-2021-04-07-at-10.14.39.png
 
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MrMarkK said:
I recently had the review of my Zero DSR published on Web Bike World.
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Great write-up !

I like your analogy of the glider. Having done hangliding and being in a Cessna, two very different experience.

On the topic of automatics, I did own a Tmax maxi scooter, that's probably the closest experience to an electric for an ICE 2 wheeler, super smooth twin due to the dummy piston counterweight, CVT transmission, and enclosed chain drive. (the new ones have belt drive) Very popular in Europe and Asia, here even long time riders have no idea what it is. :(

Anyways, I recommend checking out the dirt roads in the Santa Cruz mountains south of 17, I have seen a Zero up there.
 
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