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The Most American Thing. Ever.

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Eldritch said:
It may be that you are not fully understating the meaning of what objectification is. ...
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Perhaps, or maybe we just see the role of the swimsuit clad model in the commercial differently.The video is full of exaggerated symbols and objects IMO, and her role is as an object that represents sex, and links it to the monstrosity burger.

She has no speaking role, and the narrator naming her and her profession, does not change the fact that she is an object, or symbol, that represnts sex in the video. Would it not be objectification if a shirtless Iggy Pop was in the video on a dog collar being held by another actor while "I want to be your dog" was playing, just because the narrator named him, and his profession?
 
Getting sidetracked here.
So what is the takeaway to this ad? That hot chicks like guys who drive pickup trucks and eat Carls Jr burgers?
Cause I have money burning a hole in my pocket but I don't want to waste it something that won't deliver the goods.
 

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Melissa said:
posted by a moderator.
Classy.
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Yeah, I’m tempted to close it as it is off the rails a bit.
America. Men. Capitalism.

Kinda ugly at times. But hey, capitalism.

Edit: OTOH, gee, this seems to have inspired some intelligent discussion...
 
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Butch said:
Yeah, I’m tempted to close it as it is off the rails a bit.
America. Men. Capitalism.

Kinda ugly at times. But hey, capitalism.
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I don't know, Butch. Seems like a good opportunity to have an open discussion.

I really like having women on BARF. Like a lot. The add balance and perspective. I wouldn't want it any other way. I also understand many find topics like this offensive and objectifying, which I can understand... to a point.

I want women to feel comfortable here, but does that mean we can never have a thread about a female or the female form? Seems heavy handed. There's gotta be a way... I'm gonna say it... here I go... for guys to be guys. I get that that's an argument that's been diagnosed as part of the problem itself.

It just seems to me there has to be a little give and take here. I'm just not sure what that looks like any more. I feel like we're being backed into a corner a bit. :dunno I'd really like to hear more from our female BARFers on this...
 
This is quite the amazing thread, considering that this ad is a re-do and MUCH TAMER than the Paris Hilton ads. We sure have become false Puritans in a short period of time. :rolleyes

I don't identify with this kind of sales pitch, because my stomach is NOT directly connected to my dick. Sorry to disappoint those who think all males are built that way.

NO DAMN WORK SAFE WARNING. This was on prime time TV, for holy chastity sake!
[youtube]5pksMvXKDlc[/youtube]
 
Its not just a TV commercial its a TV commercial with an attractive woman in it, how scandalous.
Keep going with this and soon only burqa will be allowed to be shown on barf.
 
A lot of this stuff reads like people are automatically associating whether or not it's objectifying with whether or not it should be banned. They're not the same thing at all. If you decouple everything you automatically associate and just answer whether or not you think there's any level of objectification going on, what do you come up with? To me it's an obvious yes and the only real conversation here has to do with whatever associations people are automatically making.
 
Excellent point, Byke, but I'm not certain that objectification is always wrong. I think that's where I'm getting lost.

We were in Florence a few years ago and visited the Galleria dell'Accademia to see The David. There stood a naked man in all his glory surrounded by throngs of admiring people. Is the difference that The David is made of marble and not flesh? Perhaps. But, I also know that the adoration has something to do with the talent and skill of Michelangelo. As it should. It truly is a marvelous sculpture on a grand scale.

Yet, in some cases we see female sculpture being warehoused or displayed in out of the way locations here in the states because... why? Objectification? Europe doesn't seem nearly as hung up on this as we Americans are.

My point is... why is it wrong to appreciate the female form regardless the medium?

Now I get that many comments on BARF are... sophomoric. I recall the thread about the pretty girl working on the bike. But, I really don't see the harm in Butch posting this. I look at the video and say "Wow. She looks healthy. :teeth" I just don't see the problem. :dunno
 
Isn’t the debate here appreciation vs objectification?

That’s the prism the viewer watched the commercial thru.

I think the ad is pure satire, and funny enough, Carl’s Jr./Hardee’s don’t run ads like this anymore, and made a big point of it with a follow up campaign.
 
Don't really like Carls Jr food. Love the commercials.

Feel guilty about it?
Nope.
Want more
Yup.
 
DReg350 said:
Excellent point, Byke, but I'm not certain that objectification is always wrong. I think that's where I'm getting lost.

We were in Florence a few years ago and visited the Galleria dell'Accademia to see The David. There stood a naked man in all his glory surrounded by throngs of admiring people. Is the difference that The David is made of marble and not flesh? Perhaps. But, I also know that the adoration has something to do with the talent and skill of Michelangelo. As it should. It truly is a marvelous sculpture on a grand scale.

Yet, in some cases we see female sculpture being warehoused or displayed in out of the way locations here in the states because... why? Objectification? Europe doesn't seem nearly as hung up on this as we Americans are.

My point is... why is it wrong to appreciate the female form regardless the medium?

Now I get that many comments on BARF are... sophomoric. I recall the thread about the pretty girl working on the bike. But, I really don't see the harm in Butch posting this. I look at the video and say "Wow. She looks healthy. :teeth" I just don't see the problem. :dunno
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Word. There's some objectification going on. Period. Neeeeext....

And that's where the conversation is more interesting. There's always some creep that'd be jerkin it to naked statues, but you can't cater a judgement to the oddball, only to the masses. And in a results based world, results are what matter, not necessarily intent. Yet, if someone tries to create something that objectifies, the result doesn't matter, because it's still objectification in the context of the creator.

In regard to the statues, again this is all about perspectives. Objectification is something a person does, so what was the creator's intent and what was the effect on the 51% or better? In regard to Carl's commercials, the creator is using boobs to sell burgers and the effect is that the average idiot sees tits and a place to cum over a person. It checks the objectification boxes. The statues don't do that at all. Now, if you can watch the Carl's commercial without thinking what the creator is wanting you to think, then *you* are not objectifying, but that doesn't change the intent and the result for the masses, it's just you not objectifying in a sea of objectifying. Which, good for you, but..good luck explaining it to anyone.
 
byke said:
And like I said, I think you may be technically correct, just not when it comes to the impact of the commercial to the masses and they know that and knowing that is where the objectification comes from, imo. I don't think the objectification exists for you.
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Indeed, but objectification is or isn't, individual reactions do not matter. The video shown clearly shows sexualization, but sexualization is NOT objectification. While often linked, they are different technical terms.

Melissa said:
I believe that individual perspective is very meaningful. It allows depth in a conversation about something that includes data and interpretation. We are not robots nor have we been replaced by them.
yet.
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Of course you do. That is your field of work. Data, interpretation, and the execution of projects based on said interpretation is mine. Individuals are chaos, so they cannot be trusted as data. Once a large enough data set has been established to reliably identify a trend, then it becomes actionable information. Individuals are meaningless chaos.

Sharky said:
barf's Karl Hungus
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:laughing :laughing :laughing

I'll take it.
 
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