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The Sandman S1 - Netflix

justanotherg20 said:
I do believe it's a bit of an activist vibe to normalize LGBTQ+ to its audience. (Not in Sandman specifically, but like you say sort of all over the place.)

I don't mind a bit, but it does seem to be a thing.
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I dont think its explicitly activist, just more who do you think is going in to writing, film, effects and theater? a disproportionate number of people who ARE, or have a social circle, that includes more of these people. the creators of this content will be disprotionally represented by certain groups due to the nature of the content, and that content is going to implictly represent their worldview

much like a lot of film and television and having pretty regular jewish characters but almost never mormon characters, despite both populations being roughly the same size in this country. like every comedy in the 2000's has had multiple jewish characters because at the time, a great number of excellent comics and comedic producers happen top be jewish, despite jewish people representing like 2% of population

there absolutely nothing even remotely wrong with it, film is not required to somehow clarify their casts based on the census
 
kevin 714 said:
I absolutely agree with you that the desire to randomly change character aspects in most shows is dumb, but in the case of sandman, its a different thing, sandman was always fantastically gay, pro trans, and in general what we would call woke way back in the 80's. its really a different thing. doing swaps of character aspects like how they've done with death, lucien, and a host of others, is basically on brand with the vibe of the comic and the universe theyve built
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I mean, I kind of always assumed he was gay? Seems like all of his work I am familiar with (Good Omens & American Gods) is pretty gay. Nothing in the show seemed like a shock to me from his body of work,although i am pretty disappointed with the re-imagining of Death. :dunno

I burned through the first 8 episodes of this show and really enjoyed it so far. I didn't find the pace to be too slow and really appreciate how relatable the main character is.

I strongly recommend it.
 
I had a much longer post but cut out most of it since it was getting off-topic.

The issues we're discussing just doesn't bother me the way it does some of y'all especially when it comes to source material from comics.

Comics have been retconning, reimagining, and retelling stories of their characters for decades. So depending on a show or movie when someone has a gripe about deviating from the source material, my immediate thought is okay... WHICH source material are you referring to? As Kev has explained at length, with Sandman, this gripe about changing the characters really doesn't apply.

99% of the time, I simply just don't care. If every comic adapted to a show or movie was a 1:1 recreation, I would get bored extremely fast.
 
Kurosaki said:
I had a much longer post but cut out most of it since it was getting off-topic.

The issues we're discussing just doesn't bother me the way it does some of y'all especially when it comes to source material from comics.

Comics have been retconning, reimagining, and retelling stories of their characters for decades. So depending on a show or movie when someone has a gripe about deviating from the source material, my immediate thought is okay... WHICH source material are you referring to? As Kev has explained at length, with Sandman, this gripe about changing the characters really doesn't apply.

99% of the time, I simply just don't care. If every comic adapted to a show or movie was a 1:1 recreation, I would get bored extremely fast.
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No, not for Death. She is supposed to represent someone very specific.
 
Then if that's what you won't budge on, that's entirely within your right to do so, or well, not do.
 
Kurosaki said:
Then if that's what you won't budge on, that's entirely within your right to do so, or well, not do.
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Well, honestly, it is a couple of things. Death is supposed to be a tribute to Cinamon Hadley, but perhaps more importantly to me anyway, she is supposed to use Cinamon's image to represent the quintessential Goth/Death Rock chick.

To represent that image, they totally could have used Kirby Howell-Baptiste, I think her different hair and skin tone are totally, fine, but they should have used the same make up looks to express the cultural identity.

Do black lipstick and extra eyeliner work to make sure people KNOW she is a Bauhaus fan. The portrayal they did in this show just felt like appropriation. They gave her the clothes and necklace and walked away from the identity.
 
Eldritch said:
Well, honestly, it is a couple of things. Death is supposed to be a tribute to Cinamon Hadley, but perhaps more importantly to me anyway, she is supposed to use Cinamon's image to represent the quintessential Goth/Death Rock chick.

To represent that image, they totally could have used Kirby Howell-Baptiste, I think her different hair and skin tone are totally, fine, but they should have used the same make up looks to express the cultural identity.

Do black lipstick and extra eyeliner work to make sure people KNOW she is a Bauhaus fan. The portrayal they did in this show just felt like appropriation. They gave her the clothes and necklace and walked away from the identity.
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my personal take is death is the only misstep in the show. above all else, even above the aesthetic, death was CHARMING. she was carefree, jovial, whimsical while still being wise and serious. i think they tried to stick to close to the exact wordage of the very popular issue, which made it feel wooden and stilted. it reminded me of watchmen, TOO faithful
 
Kurosaki said:
I had a much longer post but cut out most of it since it was getting off-topic.

The issues we're discussing just doesn't bother me the way it does some of y'all especially when it comes to source material from comics.

Comics have been retconning, reimagining, and retelling stories of their characters for decades. So depending on a show or movie when someone has a gripe about deviating from the source material, my immediate thought is okay... WHICH source material are you referring to? As Kev has explained at length, with Sandman, this gripe about changing the characters really doesn't apply.

99% of the time, I simply just don't care. If every comic adapted to a show or movie was a 1:1 recreation, I would get bored extremely fast.
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I feel like movie/tv fans are just coming to the realization that comics, by their never ending serial nature, essentially change everything about the character over and over and over
 
kevin 714 said:
my personal take is death is the only misstep in the show. above all else, even above the aesthetic, death was CHARMING. she was carefree, jovial, whimsical while still being wise and serious. i think they tried to stick to close to the exact wordage of the very popular issue, which made it feel wooden and stilted. it reminded me of watchmen, TOO faithful
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I agree, it was my only real criticism, which was minor. I certainly enjoyed and recommend this show.
 
HappyHighwayman said:
Man I would be pissed if some smoking hot woman chatted with me and then took my soul.
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Would say that Death... ghosted him?

:teeth

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I wish they had spent more time on him hunting down his tools and less on the vortex stuff. I vaguely recall it from the comics but I always hate the standard “some person is born special and everyone wants to find her” trope. It’s like the McGuffin trope.

Anyone get a bit of a Justified vibe from Boyd Holbrook? Man I love this guy. He’s entertaining.
 
HappyHighwayman said:
Ok watched more, seriously does every show need to gender swap every character and make half of the characters gay?

What did it add? Satan is a woman, ok, John Constantine is a woman, ok...does this add to the show?
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I can't speak specifically to Sandman, as I am unfamiliar with the source material, but I've seen a handful of adaptations where characters were gender swapped and it improved the storytelling. In one case, a villain was a blatant misogynist in the books and all of his immediate lieutenants were men. When it was turned into a TV show, they shifted a number of his immediate circle to women / non-binary characters. It effectively erased his misogynistic trait and in doing so made him a more complex, partially sympathetic change.

People love to cry about "wokeness" (not saying that's what you're doing) but sometimes the gender swaps make for more interesting characters and more interesting storytelling overall.
 
HappyHighwayman said:
I wish they had spent more time on him hunting down his tools and less on the vortex stuff. I vaguely recall it from the comics but I always hate the standard “some person is born special and everyone wants to find her” trope. It’s like the McGuffin trope.
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Feel the opposite. I wasn't sure how far they were going to advance the plot by the end of the season but it was starting to feel like season 1 was going to end with the plot of the tool hunt which wouldn't surprise me given the number of viewers not familiar with the characters. Drawn out world building isn't uncommon but glad they didn't do that here. Getting them all back felt like "okay cool... moving on."
 
TylerW said:
I can't speak specifically to Sandman, as I am unfamiliar with the source material, but I've seen a handful of adaptations where characters were gender swapped and it improved the storytelling. In one case, a villain was a blatant misogynist in the books and all of his immediate lieutenants were men. When it was turned into a TV show, they shifted a number of his immediate circle to women / non-binary characters. It effectively erased his misogynistic trait and in doing so made him a more complex, partially sympathetic change.

People love to cry about "wokeness" (not saying that's what you're doing) but sometimes the gender swaps make for more interesting characters and more interesting storytelling overall.
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On the other side of this with swapping, there are examples of swaps that add nothing but don't take anything away from it either which I circle back to, who cares?

Two off the top of my head. Terry Fitzgerald in Spawn is a black dude in the comics. in the '97 movie, the actor is white. Oh well, so what. I never really thought twice about it outside of noticing it but I'm sure some people made a stink. I was just a kid when that movie was in theaters so it's not like I was scouring the internet forums and twitter but even so, when people talk about that movie in current times, Terry being played by a white dude isn't a major topic of conversation.

Lex Luthor in the 90s/00s era of DC animated shows is a black guy or at best ethnically ambiguous but his voice is pretty black. Nobody that's a fan of the Bruce Timm era of DC gives a fuck. They kinda kept this up in the Young Justice series, he's more ethnically ambiguous there but clearly not a Wonderbread white man. The persona of the character is still the same.
 
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Just finished the first season. Really enjoyed it. But I gotta ask:

A lotta fucked up stuff happen to Black people in this show. Like, most of the people who get killed, or maimed are almost all Black. Is the comic like that?
 
TylerW said:
Just finished the first season. Really enjoyed it. But I gotta ask:

A lotta fucked up stuff happen to Black people in this show. Like, most of the people who get killed, or maimed are almost all Black. Is the comic like that?
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The comic is primarily white compared to the show. There were quite a few gender and ethnicity swaps.

Rose walker and her family are white in the comic, as is death, Lucien the librarian as well(who’s also male in the comic).

Dreams lover who was In hell, is black in both show and comic, a pre-history African queen.

Lyta’s husband hector, the dead man of mixed race ethnicity, is white in comic (with an entirely
Different back
Story)
 
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