Why even open that can of worms?!
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Ticketed for not yielding to a ped (sting op)
- Thread starter nvp
- Start date
Why even open that can of worms?!
NorCalBusa
Member #294
mookiera
Riding is therapy. . .
I agree, the pedestrian does indeed have a duty.
And, the pedestrian did intentionally violate the law, disrupting traffic at a busy intersection, risking his own life and endangering the lives of motorists and other pedestrians in the area(even those on nearby sidewalks).
Why is this condoned by SF LE and allowed by their judicial system?
Slow600rr
Member
You all obviously have your own opinions and personal agendas, but many pedestrians are injured and killed every year. While I have no knowledge of how this specific "Sting" was run, neither do you. I have operated a number of these as vehicle vs. pedestrians collision in my city are high. Most crosswalks don't have enough citizen pedestrians crossing for us to sit at one for hours to watch it and we can't control citizen pedestrian actions.
When we run a pedestrian "Sting" there are very definite guidelines. Distances are marked off depending on what the posted speed limit that give vehicles more that enough times to stop when the pedestrian leaves the curb. The pedestrian is to maintain a constant average pace and not to leave the curb if a vehicle is within the set distance boundary. They are a very effective tool and have nothing to do about revenue.
Its especially helpful since all cars now have a sign on the rear that pops up saying, "I'm stopped for a pedestrian in the crosswalk!"
Yeah, why depend on drivers being observant and using common sense.
NorCalBusa
Member #294
For the record, SFPD won a couple OES Safety Awards over the last few years for their pedestrian safety programs. Everyone knows crossing a street in the city is taking you life in your hands...
theAmazingKickstand
New member
I dont believe you.
Ive seen this shit on Geary and in Santa Barbara. The cop pedestrian does not act like a real ped. He makes no eye contact, doesnt look for cars and shows no intention of crossing....then he crosses. Real people dont make decisions like that. A driver can easily tell when a ped wants to cross.
These stings are set up to make drivers guilty. And the cop told him he understands what happened yet still chose to give him a ticket. This means the cop believes that the OP understands that he must lookout for peds and always does but coudnt stop in time in this scenario. Why must he be punished and forced to produce revenue if the cop believes he is genuinely a good driver?
If this was really for awareness thne instead of giving tickets the cops would give 10 minute lectures and pamphlets and stickers with info on stopping for peds.
They have a great strategy for making drivers break the law.
Next thing we'll see are unmarked cop cars flying behind someone stopped at a red light honking the horn and acting wildly, then give a ticket to the driver when he creeps through the light to get out of the way.
OP, go tell the judge logically and rationally what happened, that is if the discount isnt to great if you plead guilty right away. I know, sometimes the discount and payment terms they give are great so it may not be worth the fight.
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masameet
Rawr!
I've always been curious about one thing though, what happens when that speed is the posted speed limit? I ask because there are times when I'm driving up to a light in my fatshit vehicle, the light is green but turns yellow at a point where I would have to really lay on the brakes to maybe stop at the line...then the light turns red when I'm 3/4 of the way into the intersection. All while obeying the speed limit. Don't mean to hijack, but it's somewhat relevant to your point above.
Reminds me of a scenario I posted on another forum (and even tried to persuade a LEO there that I was in the right (to no avail of course)). Riding my DRZ up (north) Port Chicago Highway in Concord, traffic's going slightly over the posted speed limit (40). Light's green at the cross street leading to the BART station. The light turns amber and the driver in front of me slams on his/her brakes. What the --? Whups. I pull over to the left (between the left turn only lane and our lane) and bypass that driver. Light's still amber for me.
The point of my story is had I rear-ended the vehicle IFO me, I would have been at fault for speeding and traveling too closely to stop safely.
And as I recall from other LEO threads (esp. that first one I participated in with MM4L), as long as a vehicle crosses the limit line before the light changes from amber to red, then supposedly the motorist doesn't deserve a ticket. But it's still a judgment call by the citing LEO. As the DMV driver's handbook as well as driver's ed/training teaches that an amber light means "Caution: Prepare to brake to a full stop" but most of us treat it as "Go! Go! Go!"
theAmazingKickstand
New member
Oh and I know a good amount of SFPD and Santa barbara pd....these stings ARE for revenue. Thats a fact
I observed one of these stings for about a half hour last year--near Gold's gym at Brannan and 9th, a dangerous intersection for peds no doubt.
Three things struck me.
First, the LEO walking into the crosswalk would look to see where the vehicle was before entering the crosswalk, but would not make observable eye contact with the suspect vehicle after that point. This was far before the driver would consider the ped.
Second, the seeming randomness of who got pulled. Close calls would sometimes be allowed to go on their merry way, while cases where the LEO ped was in no danger whatsoever, would result in cite.
Third, they cited every car that passed a previously stopped vehicle. In this case all the cited vehicles were passing on the right hand side of the stopped vehicle, but turning right down the intersecting street. It didn't matter if the LEO ped was crossing in front of the stopped vehicle (towards the turning car), or was in the clear and moving away from the turning car.
Finally, at this particular intersection, there were so many peds going to the gym that the LEO often had a difficult time crossing the intersection alone.
Three things struck me.
First, the LEO walking into the crosswalk would look to see where the vehicle was before entering the crosswalk, but would not make observable eye contact with the suspect vehicle after that point. This was far before the driver would consider the ped.
Second, the seeming randomness of who got pulled. Close calls would sometimes be allowed to go on their merry way, while cases where the LEO ped was in no danger whatsoever, would result in cite.
Third, they cited every car that passed a previously stopped vehicle. In this case all the cited vehicles were passing on the right hand side of the stopped vehicle, but turning right down the intersecting street. It didn't matter if the LEO ped was crossing in front of the stopped vehicle (towards the turning car), or was in the clear and moving away from the turning car.
Finally, at this particular intersection, there were so many peds going to the gym that the LEO often had a difficult time crossing the intersection alone.
C
corndog
Guest
Just lay on the brakes like a madman, cause a giant pile behind you, and say..."they must have been following me too closely". Some kid will fly through the windshield of a minivan, and new policies across the country will ban the practice, problem solved.
C
corndog
Guest
Hey thanks for the reply, have you heard anything about people being cited for obstructing an intersection because they were in the intersection when the light turned red? Mostly I'm referring to the photo lights with that question.
Warrior Princess
Freedom Equity Group
NorCalBusa
Member #294
Please elaborate on your knowledge; lay out for us where every dollar of the fine goes- court system, various fees, state, city, what ledger accounts for each. Percentages will do fine, or by the dollar. Just indicate what goes where- start with the total cost of the ticket.
Ironbutt
Loves the anecdotal
See.. I paid out over $1500 in parking tickets and moving voilations last year... noone can tell me this isn't for some revenue. If you are out and about driving/riding around, you WILL be cited for somthing at some point.
to SF parking enforcement..
masameet
Rawr!
SF has that law on the books. I forget when it started having SFPD on foot at certain intersections during the commute. The law is to prevent gridlock. I think most of the heavy police presence intersections are along or around freeway onramps. For instance, I never witnessed motorists getting ticketed on 1st St., but I saw a few cops with their big fat ticket books waiting to hand some out.
I wish Pleasant Hill PD would institute anti-gridlock measures where the SB 680 exit traffic meets at Monument Blvd. Talk about a mess there, esp. with the motorists traveling EB on Monument doing a holding pattern so nobody can cross when their light turns green.
masameet
Rawr!
And OP, I re-read your post and I'm curious -- were you on NB Masonic and about to turn right onto EB Geary Blvd.? Or were you on another street about to turn right onto EB Geary Blvd.?
Geary Blvd. and Masonic Ave. is one heavily controlled intersection. Pedestrians cannot legally cross the intersection against the red light. And I don't recall any ramps on Masonic to reach Geary. It's all flat land there. Or is the intersection under reconstruction?
Geary Blvd. and Masonic Ave. is one heavily controlled intersection. Pedestrians cannot legally cross the intersection against the red light. And I don't recall any ramps on Masonic to reach Geary. It's all flat land there. Or is the intersection under reconstruction?
LongGoneJohn
Gone
I don't feel like delving into it, but there's a lot more to it than "stepping out." There are rules, distances, speed and other things that are taken into account and then written into an operations order which clearly defines when a pedestrian is to step out, and when they are not. The operations are also almost always video taped. Do some research before you \yap about something you clearly have no idea about. I don't tell you how to work on a MotoGP bike, do I?
Better yet, contact your local PD and ask to assist during their next pedestrian awareness operation, or just go out and watch.
