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Toyota problems could be electronics

I read the last two pages and noticed people were arguing that drivers should turn OFF the car in order to stop it.

Wrong.

If they shut it off, they would not be able to steer the car and IMO that makes the situation just as bad. Shift the gdamn car into neutral by hitting the brakes and let it coast while you're able to steer it to the side. Sure it might damage your transmission or engine but its better than plowing into a wall/car/person at 70+ mph.

I still can't believe that Toyota is still blaming the pedals on the floormats :facepalm

I still love my 91' Tercel though :laughing
 
Best information I've seen yet...regarding possible link to cruise control.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/11/prius.cruise.control/index.html

...The cruise control in the 2010 Prius has a new feature called "adaptive cruise" that allows the driver to increase speeds at 5 mph intervals..
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We have the adaptive laser range finding cruise control on our 2004 Sienna minivan. It does have a tendency to go full throttle when engaging, but neither my wife nor myself thought of it as anything but a bit irritating. I can see how some people might freak out though...especially since it's in the news. :laughing

FWIW, our crusie control will even hit the brakes for you if it detects something in front of you...kinda eerie, but cool.
 
I'm still just glad I have a transmission I can jam into neutral at will.

Between neutral, brakes, e brakes, turning the engine off, and ramming vehicles with Bush Cheney stickers, there's no excuse for not being able to slow a car. Opportunities abound.
 
Aluisious said:
This guy staged the whole thing.
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Jim's gotta keep his pron investments solvent

I traced the phone number on the jimandpattysikes.com web site to the contact number on the nasca.com site. I looked up the adultswinglife llc in California’s business registry. Administrative Contact: Sikes, James @cox.net 3450 wallace dr Bonita, California 91902 United States (619) 957-7355 http://www.nasca.com/states/nasca_internet.html Business Entity Detail Data is updated weekly and is current as of Friday, March 05, 2010. It is not a complete or certified record of the entity. Entity Name: ADULTSWINGLIFE, LLC Entity Number: 200907910219 Date Filed: 03/19/2009 Status: ACTIVE Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA Entity Address: 6765 EL CAMINO REAL STE 105 #222 Entity City, State, Zip: CARLSBAD CA 92009 Agent for Service of Process: JAMES A SIKES Agent Address: 6765 EL CAMINO REAL STE 105 #222 Agent City, State, Zip: CARLSBAD CA 92009
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.
 
Interesting that it could be the adaptive cruise control mlm. Hadn't thought of that route. What is for certain, at least with me, is that Toyota still hasn't figured out what the problem is and fake or not on the latest prius accident, they've opened the door up for this type of fraud.

I heard the Orange County DA is opening up a legal action against TM as well.
 
Holeshot said:
Interesting that it could be the adaptive cruise control mlm. Hadn't thought of that route. What is for certain, at least with me, is that Toyota still hasn't figured out what the problem is and fake or not on the latest prius accident, they've opened the door up for this type of fraud.

I heard the Orange County DA is opening up a legal action against TM as well.
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I assume the car has a throttle pedal position sensor that could tell Toyota if the pedal was down or if the car was accelerating on its own. I believe they also have freeze frame data stored in the computer at the moment of a crash. I know for sure they have it for a check engine light.
 
I think the problem is stupid people and media hype at this point
 
Var said:
I assume the car has a throttle pedal position sensor that could tell Toyota if the pedal was down or if the car was accelerating on its own. I believe they also have freeze frame data stored in the computer at the moment of a crash. I know for sure they have it for a check engine light.
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It would certainly have most of that, depending on how long the data is preserved. I believe GM's is 90 seconds and then it over writes, but that a long time ago...it's probably better now.

However their real problem is they (Toyota) came in and took the black boxes and split. That doesn't look good on them for transparency and despite what they say they've found, belief in that finding will be lower than if the case/ findings were done openly.
 
Holeshot said:
Interesting that it could be the adaptive cruise control mlm. Hadn't thought of that route. What is for certain, at least with me, is that Toyota still hasn't figured out what the problem is and fake or not on the latest prius accident, they've opened the door up for this type of fraud.

I heard the Orange County DA is opening up a legal action against TM as well.
Click to expand...
What they haven't figured out is how to counter the invocation of demons and superstition to explain incidents of unintended acceleration. It happens, rarely, in all cars due to driver error. And, probably, due to ill-designed floormats. But it doesn't happen due to impossibly flukish occurrences as postulated by the college professor who recently demonstrated unintendned WOT on a Toyota Avalon.

According to Popular Mechanics, this is how he did it:
Here's what Gilbert had to do to make his Avalon go rogue: He had to cut open three of the six wires that travel from the pedal assembly to the engine computer. Two of the wires send the accelerator-position signals—one for each Hall-effect sensor—and one is a 5-volt power supply. Next he had to insert a specific 200-ohm resistor between the two signal wires. Finally, he had to generate a direct short between the 5-volt supply lines and the signal leads. The new wiring essentially mimicked a size-12 mashing of the pedal to the carpet and the engine went to WOT. Also, the order of the modification is important. Apply the 5-volt power lead to the wires before inserting the resistor and the computer would instead throw a fault code and go into limp mode.​
Don't overstay your short position. When the truly desperate--like the bankrupt swinger behind on his car payments and Orange County DA Tony Rackauckas--are looking for a teat to suck on, it's time to think about moving over to the long side.
 
Holeshot said:
It would certainly have most of that, depending on how long the data is preserved. I believe GM's is 90 seconds and then it over writes, but that a long time ago...it's probably better now.

However their real problem is they (Toyota) came in and took the black boxes and split. That doesn't look good on them for transparency and despite what they say they've found, belief in that finding will be lower than if the case/ findings were done openly.
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Software would not surprise me at all. Even if it's not, at heart, a software problem, it could be easily enough fixed in software ( http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5591548&postcount=17 ), and then you just need a recall to reflash the affected ECUs.

Still expensive, but 10 minutes at the dealer for new code and you're done.

It's too bad they've taken the chickenshit way out, that is going to hurt them for a long time. Ford is surprisingly well positioned right now -- and they looked done 5 years ago.
 
DataDan said:
What they haven't figured out is how to counter the invocation of demons and superstition to explain incidents of unintended acceleration. It happens, rarely, in all cars due to driver error. And, probably, due to ill-designed floormats. But it doesn't happen due to impossibly flukish occurrences as postulated by the college professor who recently demonstrated unintendned WOT on a Toyota Avalon.

According to Popular Mechanics, this is how he did it:
Here's what Gilbert had to do to make his Avalon go rogue: He had to cut open three of the six wires that travel from the pedal assembly to the engine computer. Two of the wires send the accelerator-position signals—one for each Hall-effect sensor—and one is a 5-volt power supply. Next he had to insert a specific 200-ohm resistor between the two signal wires. Finally, he had to generate a direct short between the 5-volt supply lines and the signal leads. The new wiring essentially mimicked a size-12 mashing of the pedal to the carpet and the engine went to WOT. Also, the order of the modification is important. Apply the 5-volt power lead to the wires before inserting the resistor and the computer would instead throw a fault code and go into limp mode.​
Don't overstay your short position. When the truly desperate--like the bankrupt swinger behind on his car payments and Orange County DA Tony Rackauckas--are looking for a teat to suck on, it's time to think about moving over to the long side.
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I'd agree if my short position was based on the UA issues, but it never was. I based my position on the economic climate, Toyota's host of quality woes on the forefront (there's a fair amount of data out there about this) and the fact that, ironically, Toyota among most of the other competitors in the market place make a long lasting quality product: thus consumers won't have a need for replacement as often.

Replacing a car is a want now, not a need for most Americans. That's where the strength in my logic comes from. Toyota's mishandling of their acceleration/ brake issues is just icing on the cake.
 
MR. Toyota on Letterman

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wazzuFreddo said:
I think the problem is stupid people and media hype at this point
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Correction: OLD people.

In the 24 cases where driver age was reported or readily inferred, the drivers included those of the ages 60, 61, 63, 66, 68, 71, 72, 72, 77, 79, 83, 85, 89—and I’m leaving out the son whose age wasn’t identified, but whose 94-year-old father died as a passenger.
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The Article
 
The problem appears NOT to be electronics or software, but either the faulty floormats that could trap the pedal or simply driver error:
The U.S. Department of Transportation has analyzed dozens of data recorders from Toyota Motor Corp. vehicles involved in accidents blamed on sudden acceleration and found that at the time of the crashes, throttles were wide open and the brakes were not engaged, people familiar with the findings said.

The results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyota and Lexus vehicles surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes. But the findings don't exonerate Toyota from two known issues blamed for sudden acceleration in its vehicles: sticky accelerator pedals and floor mats that can trap accelerator pedals to the floor.
The findings by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration involve a sample of reports in which a driver of a Toyota vehicle said the brakes were depressed but failed to stop the car from accelerating and ultimately crashing.

The data recorders analyzed by NHTSA were selected by the agency, not Toyota, based on complaints the drivers had filed with the government.

The findings are consistent with a 1989 government-sponsored study that blamed similar driver mistakes for a rash of sudden-acceleration reports involving Audi 5000 sedans.
​
 
not only that, but they sold all those Lexus's KNOWING about the problem!
Toyotas new slogan:

"Toyota - Moving Forward... Even when you don't want to"
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Pfff, fk Toyota
 
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