Two dead batteries

[nebulous]

After posing at the Saratoga Starbuck's today my 2000 R1, with no previous warning, refused to start. The battery was dead. I had a friend push and bump started the bike but only got a few blocks before the readouts in the cluster went blank followed shortly by the engine quitting.

Friend went after two batteries, one from a new Aprilla, and the other from a new s1000rr. Put in the aprilla battery first, bike ran fine everything was good; for about 20 miles. Readouts got flakey, engine stopped, battery dead. Put in second battery and made it home.

Is this an alternator, stator/voltage regulator problem? How to fiX?

 

[sckego]

Sounds like your charging system is kaput. Might be a faulty R/R or stator. Check the charging voltage at the battery when the bike is on and at around 5k RPM. It should be in the 14V range. If it's at 16V or above, your R/R is no longer regulating the power and is frying your batteries--get a new one. If it's at 12V or below, it might be either the R/R or the stator. Find the wire coming out of the stator cover and disconnect the plug. The three leads on the stator side should NOT short to ground (in other words, conductivity from any of the leads to ground = bad), and they should all have a slight resistance (0.1 to 1 ohm) between one another. If the stator fails either of these tests, it's fried and you need a new one. If it passes, then the problem is probably a blown R/R.

 

[mototireguy]

Sounds like your charging system is kaput. Might be a faulty R/R or stator. Check the charging voltage at the battery when the bike is on and at around 5k RPM. It should be in the 14V range. If it's at 16V or above, your R/R is no longer regulating the power and is frying your batteries--get a new one. If it's at 12V or below, it might be either the R/R or the stator.

+1, don't guess, run the tests and report back with your results. Simply throwing new $100 batteries at the problem might result in a pile of dead batteries.

 

[Flying Pig]

And if the voltages look normal, check your connections. Sometimes the ground (from battery to frame) works itself loose.....

 

[nebulous]

Got the DVM out today and of course.......wait for it..... it's battery was dead.


will work on it tomorrow and report back.

 

[DannoXYZ]

yeah, battery begin dead is the symptom. Now go find why it's dead.

 

[sckego]

yeah, battery begin dead is the symptom. Now go find why it's dead.

Think he meant the voltmeter battery was dead.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Ah, gotcha. Duh..

 

[machete]

Got the DVM out today and of course.......wait for it..... it's battery was dead.


will work on it tomorrow and report back.

stupid irony. hope you get it fixed. does sound like your frying your batteries.

the simplest solution would be the connectors either having corrosion or coming loose (start here, by cleaning and retightening) worst case, you replace some parts. hope that's all it is.

 

[nebulous]

Charged original battery for just a few hours and it holds 13.4v.
Tested the battery that got me home: 11.82v, connected to the bike.
Installed original "charged" battery: 12.4v@5000 rpm.

Spec notes the charging system should bring the connected battery to 14v@5000rpm.


Next Step?

 

[mototireguy]

Charged original battery for just a few hours and it holds 13.4v.
Tested the battery that got me home: 11.82v, connected to the bike.
Installed original "charged" battery: 12.4v@5000 rpm.

Spec notes the charging system should bring the connected battery to 14v@5000rpm.

A healthy key-off battery voltage should read at least 12.5v or it's a fail.

A healthy bike running battery voltage should be very close to 14.4volts. Your 12.4v at 5k rpms is fail. Battery not being charged. Bike is running in total battery loss mode.

Next check the AC voltage numbers on the three stator/rotor output leads. You want to see readings in the 60-90VAC range or your stator is fail.

 

[sckego]

A healthy key-off battery voltage should read at least 12.5v or it's a fail.

Meh... a healthy battery will be up in the high 12.x, but 12.4 isn't a fail, just means the battery isn't 100% brand new. It's still keeping enough charge to get by. If it gets down close to 12 flat with a full charge, then it's definitely time to replace.

Installed original "charged" battery: 12.4v@5000 rpm.
Spec notes the charging system should bring the connected battery to 14v@5000rpm.
Next Step?

Basically, your battery isn't getting charged. This might be due to a faulty stator or R/R. The easiest one to check is the stator (refer back to my first post): "Find the wire coming out of the stator cover and disconnect the plug. The three leads on the stator side should NOT short to ground (in other words, conductivity from any of the leads to ground = bad), and they should all have a slight resistance (0.1 to 1 ohm) between one another." You can also check the A/C output at the stator leads with the engine at 5k RPM, as suggested by mototireguy.

If you stator passes these tests, then it's putting out good power, and the R/R is probably the culprit. If the stator fails those tests, it's fried and you need a new one.

 

[nebulous]

Pulled the connector to the stator wires, each one to the next measured: .40 ohms. however, the two leads touching directly measured .12 ohms. so subtract and the corrected measurement would be .28 ohms. Also measured from each stator lead to ground, all open. (no continuity).

I'm assuming if I trace the three stator leads on the other side of the connector up to the harness and measure the voltage when the bike is running, I will be doing the other test.

Whats the next step?

 

[mototireguy]

Whats the next step?

With the bike running set the multimeter to AC voltage mode and touch the probes to each combination of the 3 stator wires (A-B, B-C and A-C).

What are these three AC voltage results?

 

[nebulous]

Is there a convenient connector under the seat to take the measurements?

As you know, I took this measurement with the connector disconnected, several wires, the gas tank and a couple of vacuum lines also disconnected.

Thanks for the help, btw.

 

[Ironbutt]

Is there a convenient connector under the seat to take the measurements?

As you know, I took this measurement with the connector disconnected, several wires, the gas tank and a couple of vacuum lines also disconnected.

Thanks for the help, btw.

My best guess is two problems. And this is also why it's so damned hard to troubleshoot. Like being in a twilight zone.

The stator is sacked and the reg/rec is only half way broken. You'll have to replace both.

 

[mototireguy]

Do you see a wire bundle coming out of the left/crankshaft side of the motor?

Can you follow the wire to it's connector block? This connection goes to the reg/rect.

Can you disconnect the connector?

You can take the voltage readings from this connector.

 

[sckego]

Pulled the connector to the stator wires, each one to the next measured: .40 ohms. however, the two leads touching directly measured .12 ohms. so subtract and the corrected measurement would be .28 ohms. Also measured from each stator lead to ground, all open. (no continuity).

I'm assuming if I trace the three stator leads on the other side of the connector up to the harness and measure the voltage when the bike is running, I will be doing the other test.

Whats the next step?

Based on those results, it sounds like your stator is fine. If you want to double-check, do the voltage test with the.engine running, from those same leads on the stator side to ground (except you can't do that with the tank rmvd and a bunch of stuff disconnected). I think your R/R is the problem... I'm not sure how to test an R/R, but generally, if the stator checks out, that's usually where the fault is. If I were in your shoes I'd start shopping for a replacement and see if that solves the problem.

 

[ST Guy]

Charged original battery for just a few hours and it holds 13.4v.
Tested the battery that got me home: 11.82v, connected to the bike.
Installed original "charged" battery: 12.4v@5000 rpm.

Spec notes the charging system should bring the connected battery to 14v@5000rpm.


Next Step?

First of all, no battery will hold a steady state 13.4 volts. Your first mistake is taking a voltage measurement right after removing the charger from the battery. You MUST wait at least 1 full hour, preferably two hours or more before checking the voltage. This time allows the voltage to stabilize.

Second, voltage is only part of the story. The battery must also have the amperage to do it's job. Consider this the "size" of the battery.

However, it's obvious your charging system is screwed up. Find out what part(s) of it is not working and fix.

Good luck.

 

[ST Guy]

Meh... a healthy battery will be up in the high 12.x, but 12.4 isn't a fail, just means the battery isn't 100% brand new. It's still keeping enough charge to get by. If it gets down close to 12 flat with a full charge, then it's definitely time to replace.

12.4 will sometimes get you by, but only barely. A brand new battery should show 12.8 volts after being properly prepped, properly charged, and allowed to stabilize before taking a volt reading with an accurate meter.

11.99 (let's call it 12 volts) is fully and completely discharged. Not zero volts.

12.4 volts is a battery that's 50% discharged. Generally, a healthy battery you can count on is a minimum of 12.6 volts (75% charged). Anything less and you're getting close to the end of the battery's life.