• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

Why is it so hard to buy a motorcycle?

One key thing, get a bike similar to what your buddy has. If one guy is on a Goldwing and another is on a Yamaha single, it will be a hard trip for both probably.

For pure mile munching, a Honda ST1300 is an awesome bike. And strangely enough, there seems to be several low mileage bikes popping up on CL frequently.

I'd be afraid of a RT1200 ... too many driveshaft failure on tour stories for me ... and it is like like a ~$3000 repair.

A V-Strom 1000 sure is boring, but they are super reliable and are fairly comfortable and easy to live with on a long trip.

As for crazy dealers, I hear you. I was shopping for a new moto a few months back ... saw a great deal listed in SoCal for $9999 plus fees. Called them up, OTD was $14,000! What?!? $4000 in fees? Yes they added in "dealer markup" in fees. Not sure why they play that game, does anyone go "well, yup, you got yours fees, here's my $14,000".

Oh, crazy idea, you and your buddy both get CSC RX3 Adventure bikes. Cost $4200 new with side bags and a top case.
 
Oh, crazy idea, you and your buddy both get CSC RX3 Adventure bikes. Cost $4200 new with side bags and a top case.
I've ridden with a friend who really likes his. But don't ride that thing at night. No way his headlight is anywhere near DOT compliant. A 6V VW bug would outshine it by a lot.
 
I hear ya, my tastes change over time, the perfect bike after a few years, isn't any more.

My dealer experiences have been mixed, but nothing too terrible, my fave was a "20% off weekend sale", which meant no dealer markup for that weekend. And yes, I bought something.

As for bikes, I once thought the CB500X was the perfect one, then I got the desire for more power and the F700GS came in. I am thinking I would not like the 500 for heavy-laden x-country touring, it would work too hard on the freeway, especially on 75mph ones with a headwind. And I like the more power. I get why some tourers favor larger engines.
 
Almost anything can be a touring bike. Research well but do not overthink. I rode a $2500 Bandit to Alaska. Expanding options may shorten your search. OTOH, riding a 10-YO bike to AK was maybe not the smartest thing, but memorable.
 
Last edited:
As for crazy dealers, I hear you. I was shopping for a new moto a few months back ... saw a great deal listed in SoCal for $9999 plus fees. Called them up, OTD was $14,000! What?!? $4000 in fees? Yes they added in "dealer markup" in fees. Not sure why they play that game, does anyone go "well, yup, you got yours fees, here's my $14,000".

Ya know what? Obviously it works for them.

Because, apparently, "everyone" does it.

All we hear about with dealers is about the dealer prep and markup fees. Destination charge is set by the factory. Doc fees are set by the State (I think). That leaves the "prep and markup" fee.

Clearly the MSRP doesn't have enough margin for the dealer and doesn't appear to reflect market rates. And, apparently, no dealers are so hungry for business that they're advertising on high all about how cheap their prep fees are, or advertising bikes at "OTD" prices. The prep fee is an open secret.

Used bikes (typically) don't have prep fees, so it's more "what you see is what you get".

That means you get to eat it, haggle, or, if it's available, you can try running it through Costco.
 
It's not hard at all.....your just too cheap.

Having worked behind the counter at a local motorcycle shop, I've come to realize motorcycle riders are cheap.

And they wonder why places like Road Rider closes, or a favorite shop closes....

I'm buying a new bike as soon as it arrives......never asked price, don't care....cause I know it takes money for a dealer to stay in business.....and I want this bike.

I know when too be cheap and when not too, which means I'm willing to pay a fair price, but not gonna try haggle them to death.

I don't see it as being cheap. See a bike advertised for 5999 it should be 5999 + tax and licensing. Not close to 10k OTD. If anything the dealer is creating the situation of wasting their own time. If they just advertised OTD price buyers would know if they can afford it or not. Save everybody some time.
 
I'm buying a new bike as soon as it arrives......never asked price, don't care....cause I know it takes money for a dealer to stay in business.....and I want this bike.

The last time I was shopping for a new Japanese bike, I visited two dealers that were within about 20 miles of each other. One dealer wanted MSRP + $2000 in fees, the other dealer offered $1000 below MSRP and only $1000 in fees. Same story when I bought my Super Duke: called or visited a couple of dealers and ended up savings $1500 on the purchase (+ I got a $1000 Akrapovic slip-on for free because the dealer I purchased from knew about a promo that the others didn't).

I don't believe in wasting time negotiating for every nickel and dime, but you can bet I'm going to do enough homework so that I don't don't fork over an extra $2000 when I don't have to...
 
How can you not buy from a BARF member? I've watched the ads here long enough to see many, many $6,500 cross country bikes pass through.

And, except for a few unfortunate stickers, looked pretty perfect and well kept.
 
Awesome touring bike for cheap? 2000 Sprint ST. $2900.....
Needs nothing. Bags, Ohlins, Corbin+stock.
There you go!
 
Ya know what? Obviously it works for them.

Because, apparently, "everyone" does it.

All we hear about with dealers is about the dealer prep and markup fees. Destination charge is set by the factory. Doc fees are set by the State (I think). That leaves the "prep and markup" fee.

Clearly the MSRP doesn't have enough margin for the dealer and doesn't appear to reflect market rates. And, apparently, no dealers are so hungry for business that they're advertising on high all about how cheap their prep fees are, or advertising bikes at "OTD" prices. The prep fee is an open secret.

Used bikes (typically) don't have prep fees, so it's more "what you see is what you get".

That means you get to eat it, haggle, or, if it's available, you can try running it through Costco.


Document fees are not set by the state. I believe the only caveat is if a dealer charges document processing fees, they have to charge it to everyone.

No one should get caught up worrying about dealer prep or shipping fees. All that matters is out the door price. Doesn't matter what part of that figure is price of the unit, prep or shipping fees; all that matters is the total. Once you get bogged down in negotiating prep fees you are already on the weak side of the negotiation. The DMV has a calculator for all the fees and taxes the state charges so pick a number and run a few scenarios to see what the state charges will be. Everything else is negotiable.
 
One key thing, get a bike similar to what your buddy has. If one guy is on a Goldwing and another is on a Yamaha single, it will be a hard trip for both probably.

For pure mile munching, a Honda ST1300 is an awesome bike. And strangely enough, there seems to be several low mileage bikes popping up on CL frequently.

I'd be afraid of a RT1200 ... too many driveshaft failure on tour stories for me ... and it is like like a ~$3000 repair.

A V-Strom 1000 sure is boring, but they are super reliable and are fairly comfortable and easy to live with on a long trip.

As for crazy dealers, I hear you. I was shopping for a new moto a few months back ... saw a great deal listed in SoCal for $9999 plus fees. Called them up, OTD was $14,000! What?!? $4000 in fees? Yes they added in "dealer markup" in fees. Not sure why they play that game, does anyone go "well, yup, you got yours fees, here's my $14,000".

Oh, crazy idea, you and your buddy both get CSC RX3 Adventure bikes. Cost $4200 new with side bags and a top case.

Yea, I've been trying to stick with bikes that have a similar fuel range because when we rode from SF to LA even though we had the same bike, He had a larger carb and pod filter instead of air box which resulted in his bike needing gas about twice as often. Luckily it was a fairly short trip, even on a 50, so we got to LA just as the gas stops were getting annoying.

I have looked at the ST1300 a lot since it has pretty much an endless fuel range :laughing. At this point I am digging the ADV upright position more than the sport touring position, but rest assured if I can't get a good deal on an ADV the St1300 will be on my short list.

I am very afraid of the BMW maintenance costs. I owned an M5 a few years ago and the combination of poor customer service and consumption of parts quickly outweighed the satisfaction of driving the vehicle.

The Suzuki's seem to be pretty good bikes from what I read, but I'm just not in love with the look or feel of the bikes I've looked at in person.

If my friend was willing to forego his inherited Ultra Luxury Cruiser I would totally be down for the Adventure of a small 250 4T or even a 125 2T cross country.
 
I just bought a Tracer GT. I got the call on Sat it is in and to come on down.

And it just was in........it was still parked where it was off load, still had the tie downs on the fork, no battery, no fluids.

It other words....it needed dealer prep and what was charged was a fair price, but that's because I worked at a mototcycle shop and seen first hand what it takes....the labor needed.......someone's paycheck.

Document/Administration fee was also reasonable cause I know it takes a person to do the paper work. It took a person to answer my phone calls prior to buying the bike.

So, now, just waiting on the prep to be done.....easiest vehicle purchase I ever made........
 
I just bought a Tracer GT. I got the call on Sat it is in and to come on down.

And it just was in........it was still parked where it was off load, still had the tie downs on the fork, no battery, no fluids.

It other words....it needed dealer prep and what was charged was a fair price, but that's because I worked at a mototcycle shop and seen first hand what it takes....the labor needed.......someone's paycheck.

Document/Administration fee was also reasonable cause I know it takes a person to do the paper work. It took a person to answer my phone calls prior to buying the bike.

So, now, just waiting on the prep to be done.....easiest vehicle purchase I ever made........

The tracer GT looks like an awesome bike, congrats on the purchase!

I don't think anyone will disagree that people should be paid for their work. The problem is deceptive pricing practices with regards to fees and variance of fees between dealerships.

Are we to believe that dealerships make $0 on selling a bike at MSRP and so they have to charge the fees to pay their staff? The Doc fee and freight seem to be standard across all dealers, but setup/prep and dealer markup can vary widely adding profit to their owners pocket more than wages to their workers.
 
Are we to believe that dealerships make $0 on selling a bike at MSRP and so they have to charge the fees to pay their staff? The Doc fee and freight seem to be standard across all dealers, but setup/prep and dealer markup can vary widely adding profit to their owners pocket more than wages to their workers.

Do you think that the net profits for an MSRP bike sold in the Bay Area would be the same as one sold in, say, Lexington, Kentucky?

Is the cost of doing business in San Francisco the same as it is in San Jose?

I don't know Motorcycle Economics. I don't own a dealership, I don't sell motorcycles.

But the practice folks complain about seems to be, essentially, universal. And the practice is, apparently, not hurting the dealers as there aren't any out there squawking about how they don't do it. Nobody is listing "out the door" prices. It's just like most every car stereo shop or car wheel dealer. They don't list any prices at all, it's like getting prices from an Arab Rug Trader.

At a local large dealer, they don't have OTD prices on the tags. They list the MSRP, and "fees", and part of the description of the fees is "dealer markup". (They don't show the markup, they just say there's more coming.) So, they're not even necessarily "hiding" it.

If you want to get rid of most of that, buy a used bike. Those prices are much closer to the OTD price, because the prices are already corrected for the market. MSRP isn't.
 
Do you think that the net profits for an MSRP bike sold in the Bay Area would be the same as one sold in, say, Lexington, Kentucky?

Is the cost of doing business in San Francisco the same as it is in San Jose?

I don't know Motorcycle Economics. I don't own a dealership, I don't sell motorcycles.

But the practice folks complain about seems to be, essentially, universal. And the practice is, apparently, not hurting the dealers as there aren't any out there squawking about how they don't do it. Nobody is listing "out the door" prices. It's just like most every car stereo shop or car wheel dealer. They don't list any prices at all, it's like getting prices from an Arab Rug Trader.

At a local large dealer, they don't have OTD prices on the tags. They list the MSRP, and "fees", and part of the description of the fees is "dealer markup". (They don't show the markup, they just say there's more coming.) So, they're not even necessarily "hiding" it.

If you want to get rid of most of that, buy a used bike. Those prices are much closer to the OTD price, because the prices are already corrected for the market. MSRP isn't.



I totally get your point, and don't fully disagree with you, but there's something else to consider, especially for your final point about buying used bikes. That's a double-edged sword.

There's a portion of the market who want to buy, whether new or used, but just don't want to deal with the headache of negotiating fees, free services, etc (similarly in the auto sales space, which has lead to the rise of TrueCar, CarMax, etc). Those in that portion of the market will more often than not just buy used. The dealers and manufacturers are losing sales, and, in a time where motorcycle sales are already on a decline, this hurts.
 
Back
Top