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Worst form of music?

Production music, written to be used in commercials, etc.

Next would be most rap, etc. because it represents the failure of education in our country. Kids with musical impulses and talent who can't speak English well, deprived of musical education so they can't play anything. Although there is a good thing about improvising poetry that goes back through history, it's just doggerel poetry with very limited poetic meter choices. And yes, I must be a racist for saying it. It is a true expression of sorts, so its better than production music or what's below.

Kwanzaa carols is a good one, but there are only like, three or something. Ms. BA is a teacher and has to be inclusive every year. Fake songs for a fake holiday, created by a killer felon. In one of the songs, you just sing Kwanzaa over and over again.

Oh gosh, and how could I forgot: the current crop of fake electronic-dancey-sexy songs that all come out of one outfit, as sung by Beyonce, Rihanna,Shakira, Gaga whatever. Just long ostinatos (the same thing over and over again, no chorus, no verse, just crap, usually with some little hook in there that you may or may not remember. If you don't believe me, try and sing a whole Gaga song. It's like empty calories in food. But with high production values. They have this Beyonce-JayZ thing on the cable,two hours of costume changes, smoke machines, dance crews. Not an actual song on the whole thing that I have yet heard as I zip by. I do understand that Gaga "writes" her own music, so she is in a separate category, I spose. There was some article floating around the Net a few years back that explained how those dancey songs are "written,"very formulaic and contrived. It's really craaaaaaaaaaaap. These "songs" actually make actual rap seem pretty genuine, come to think of it because they invoke the actual talent of the rapper himself. He is actually saying something, albeit with pathetic doggerel and limited rhythmic patterns.
 
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Bay Arean said:
Production music, written to be used in commercials, etc.

Next would be most rap, etc. because it represents the failure of education in our country. Kids with musical impulses and talent who can't speak English well, deprived of musical education so they can't play anything. Although there is a good thing about improvising poetry that goes back through history, it's just doggerel poetry with very limited poetic meter choices. And yes, I must be a racist for saying it. It is a true expression of sorts, so its better than production music or what's below.

Kwanzaa carols is a good one, but there are only like, three or something. Ms. BA is a teacher and has to be inclusive every year. Fake songs for a fake holiday, created by a killer felon. In one of the songs, you just sing Kwanzaa over and over again.

Oh gosh, and how could I forgot: the current crop of fake electronic-dancey-sexy songs that all come out of one outfit, as sung by Beyonce, Rihanna,Shakira, Gaga whatever. Just long ostinatos (the same thing over and over again, no chorus, no verse, just crap, usually with some little hook in there that you may or may not remember. If you don't believe me, try and sing a whole Gaga song. It's like empty calories in food. But with high production values. They have this Beyonce-JayZ thing on the cable,two hours of costume changes, smoke machines, dance crews. Not an actual song on the whole thing that I have yet heard as I zip by. I do understand that Gaga "writes" her own music, so she is in a separate category, I spose. There was some article floating around the Net a few years back that explained how those dancey songs are "written,"very formulaic and contrived. It's really craaaaaaaaaaaap. These "songs" actually make actual rap seem pretty genuine, come to think of it because they invoke the actual talent of the rapper himself. He is actually saying something, albeit with pathetic doggerel and limited rhythmic patterns.
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nah, just pathetically narrow minded and probably completely unversed/unexposed to the better examples of it.

your little screed there is the same kind of shit the gentry used to say about the blues, so :blah
 
asthmodeus said:
nah, just pathetically narrow minded and probably completely unversed/unexposed to the better examples of it.

your little screed there is the same kind of shit the gentry used to say about the blues, so :blah
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The blues had melody, harmony, verses, choruses. Yes, it was homespun, but so was white poor people music. As a trained musician who loves all kinds of music, it's hard to consider myself part of any gentry of anything. And you are pathetically pedestrian in your put-down.

And, blues fostered so much more. What really, in the end, did initial hip-hop foster that will last for the ages, comparable to jazz?

I have taken the same charge to heart in the past and tried to find value in rap, hip-hop etc. To me, an idiot-turned-hero waving a microphone around spouting anger and hate and misogyny is just really hard to be enthusiastic about. I grew up on soul music, James Brown, Motown, etc, all the preferred music in our house and I still don't like rap. To me, James Brown covered about almost everything rap ever aspired to, 50 years ago. Black anger, shame, attempt to instill pride, pushed in white society's face, Brown did it all. I have always wondered what he thought about rap. Maybe he loved it, who knows....

I heard a local rap tune one day on KPFA by a kid in Richmond, and it resonated to me just because it reflected how shitty things can be around here. To that extent, I can't hate on it, but as a musician, wanting to see society move forward, its just really hard. I love that hip-hop did for dancing and dance expression. To me, that's the greatest aspect of it, is energizing street dancing etc etc.

I agree that the people, as such, are expressing themselves, but its just a style that peaked like 20 years ago or something, but has persisted and persisted. Sampling is just fucking lazy, taking a little bit of something good because you are incapable of creating something yourself. What was once considered novelty, sampling became quite common.

Once again, it's a failure of our society to educate its citizens. It's like giving a very musical person a guitar with broken strings. They will still have the innate talent to make music with it, but it could always be better.

And finally, what I dislike the most is going away. I am really happy to see people singing again. I like the talent contests, the a cappella stuff, and people diminishing rap to episodes within more of a musical framework. There is a place for it, but not as the main dish. And there always was talking blues, too, if you know what that is.
 
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One of the guys at work listens to pop country. It's pretty horrible. I tend to listen to alternative country (KPIG).

Rap music. My kid says it's because I'm a racist. Maybe, maybe not, but it tends to just irritate and piss me off if I have to listen to it. Bitch, Ho, motherfucker, bitch, Ho, motherfucker, motherfucker. That seems to be all I can hear of it.

I can listen to a lot of stuff, everything from classical to country to metal. But that pop country is bad.
 
corndog67 said:
One of the guys at work listens to pop country. It's pretty horrible. I tend to listen to alternative country (KPIG).

Rap music. My kid says it's because I'm a racist. Maybe, maybe not, but it tends to just irritate and piss me off if I have to listen to it. Bitch, Ho, motherfucker, bitch, Ho, motherfucker, motherfucker. That seems to be all I can hear of it.

I can listen to a lot of stuff, everything from classical to country to metal. But that pop country is bad.
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It's weird, but everytime I hear the theme song to Sunday Night Football, I hate modern country a iittle bit more. So chock full of bullshit.

I'll give it one thing, it's extremely well-produced and slick anymore.
 
Bay Arean said:
It's weird, but everytime I hear the theme song to Sunday Night Football, I hate modern country a iittle bit more. So chock full of bullshit.

I'll give it one thing, it's extremely well-produced and slick anymore.
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And, like pop music in general, it follows a formula, and doesn't deviate. Kind of like that electronic thing they do with their voices to make them perfectly in tune, just sucks.
 
Bay Arean said:
Next would be most rap, etc. because it represents the failure of education in our country. Kids with musical impulses and talent who can't speak English well, deprived of musical education so they can't play anything. Although there is a good thing about improvising poetry that goes back through history, it's just doggerel poetry with very limited poetic meter choices. And yes, I must be a racist for saying it. It is a true expression of sorts, so its better than production music or what's below.
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You act as though if only they had taken music classes, they wouldn't have gotten into rap. Uh no. There are many people who enjoy or even perform classical music and still enjoy rap/hip-hop from time to time. If you like a certain type of beat, rap is the only way you're going to get it. And enjoying it doesn't mean that you believe in what the rapper is saying, or that you want to be a gangsta.
 
Reli said:
You act as though if only they had taken music classes, they wouldn't have gotten into rap. Uh no. There are many people who enjoy or even perform classical music and still enjoy rap/hip-hop from time to time. If you like a certain type of beat, rap is the only way you're going to get it. And enjoying it doesn't mean that you believe in what the rapper is saying, or that you want to be a gangsta.
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I have yet to meet a classical musician that "enjoys rap from time to time". Unless its some sort of slumming, it's just not interesting enough to attract trained musicians. You might get lip service or guilt approval but....And I can see where a young kid wants to fit into his peer group by going along. Did you read that in Rolling Stone or something?

I spent the latter part of the 70s getting my music education and I literally dropped out from popular music during that time. I couldn't tell you any hit songs from 77-79 because I was buried in studies, as were most of my colleagues from SF State. Many are now very accomplished, playing in SF Symphony and such. Though I went into folkloric music, eventually, I still am more of a classical musician than anything else.

What I'm saying, is that if a kid is given a music education, they will invariably create something at a higher level of expression because they will have more tools do so. Its no coincidence that the budget cuts that took music out of school in the last 40 years coincides with the downgrading of music. Now that its being restored, music is getting better.

When I was a kid, most public high schools had lost their orchestras, and were down to symphonic and marching bands. It got worse and worse, and now, seems to be coming back. There is no substitute that can make up for actual training on an instrument and in understanding how music works.
 
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Bay Arean said:
The blues had melody, harmony, verses, choruses. Yes, it was homespun, but so was white poor people music. As a trained musician who loves all kinds of music, it's hard to consider myself part of any gentry of anything.
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Do you feel the above are a list of requirements that must be satisfied before noise can be called music?
 
Add New Age and "World" (whatever the hell that means) music to Peruvian Pan Flute and Jimmy Buffet. Mostly all the same shit, really. And I do mean shit.
 
tzrider said:
Do you feel the above are a list of requirements that must be satisfied before noise can be called music?
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Pretty much. I play a lot of Irish music however, which does not have harmony, just implied.

Some iteration of those factors are generally present. Music without melody. Wow. Only a closed-minded person expects melody, man.

The ostinato style of dancey-sexy-electronic Gaga type of music often does not have the dichotomy of verses and choruses, though, and yes, it's music, to be sure. Spoken, improvised poetry with a rhythm track is still considered to be a form of musical expression, but to compare blues to basic rap shows the deficits I mentioned.
 
asthmodeus said:
ftfy.

regardless, it was a lot easier to be brilliant back then before everything was done. that goes for a lot more than just music too.
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Yeah, just stick with your narrative. It helps you to understand things you obviously cannot understand. There is no doubt that age is a factor with me and Corndog but there still is just the wholesale deficit within the genre...

And, there will never be a time when "everything has been done." That's a myth. That's the miracle of human creativity. That you fall for that rationalization makes you look a lot simpler than me narrow-minded. Using that logic, we all should have given up at Bach or something. People will continue to surprise you with musical innovation. It's never done. You always stand on the shoulders of those who came before you, but it doesn't mean you can't create meaningful music. Sincerely, think about that statement. It's a cop-out.
 
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Bay Arean said:
Yeah, just stick with your narrative. It helps you to understand things you obviously cannot understand. There is no doubt that age is a factor with me and Corndog but there still is just the wholesale deficit within the genre...

And, there will never be a time when "everything has been done." That's a myth. That's the miracle of human creativity. That you fall for that rationalization makes you look a lot simpler than me narrow-minded. Using that logic, we all should have given up at Bach or something.
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lol yeah, ok, that's what i said :laughing
 
I'll leave a place to get away from country music. I'll kill somebody if that's what it takes to get away from bluegrass.
 
Bay Arean said:
I have yet to meet a classical musician that "enjoys rap from time to time". Unless its some sort of slumming, it's just not interesting enough to attract trained musicians. You might get lip service or guilt approval but....And I can see where a young kid wants to fit into his peer group by going along. Did you read that in Rolling Stone or something?

I spent the latter part of the 70s getting my music education and I literally dropped out from popular music during that time. I couldn't tell you any hit songs from 77-79 because I was buried in studies, as were most of my colleagues from SF State. Many are now very accomplished, playing in SF Symphony and such. Though I went into folkloric music, eventually, I still am more of a classical musician than anything else.

What I'm saying, is that if a kid is given a music education, they will invariably create something at a higher level of expression because they will have more tools do so. Its no coincidence that the budget cuts that took music out of school in the last 40 years coincides with the downgrading of music. Now that its being restored, music is getting better.

When I was a kid, most public high schools had lost their orchestras, and were down to symphonic and marching bands. It got worse and worse, and now, seems to be coming back. There is no substitute that can make up for actual training on an instrument and in understanding how music works.
Click to expand...

Hip-hop music didn't begin until the mid-70's, and it was limited to NYC until the early 80's. You had already grown up by then, so of course you're not going to care about it.

And I was raised by two parents with Masters in music, piano and organ specifically......couldn't get any more boring and traditional. I played trumpet, my sisters violin and cello. And I never knew any fellow band mates who actually listened to classical at home or in their cars.
 
On vacation with a buddy when I was 13, we came across "Eazy Duz It" at some local shop...best day ever.
 
New Age music, once described by a musician buddy of mine:

Listening for minutes and minutes, waiting for something to happen.
 
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