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Zero Motorcycles

I was fortunate enough to be able to ride a Zero S around SF recently for some guerrilla marketing.

IMHO it's the perfect city bike. I would love to have one for my short commute, but $10K is a bit steep for me at this point.

It irks me that some states were offering subsidies that totaled about $5K, including federal, but not CA. I would probably buy one if I could get it for $5K.
 
I rode the Brammo one. The rear brake is on the left grip. Top speed, I got it up to 58 MPH indicated. Charging time is 4 hours for 30-40 miles range.

The no noise thing is very interesting. One thing I noticed right away is I can hear everything around me so much better.

They'll probably develop some sort of proximity or spatial sound in the helmet, to help pinpoint who's around us. Or maybe displayed dots on a GPS screen? Who knows.

I think it'll be exciting to see how fast this technology will develop.

And if you think the bike will surge and jump when you twist the throttle hard, I can tell you it won't happen. They worked hard to get rid of that and make it more of a gentle pull. It's actually a bit weak, feels more like a Vespa 150cc with CVT.

As more (rich) people buy them, they will get cheaper, while the performance numbers will go up.
 
^
toyota is having a similar problem with the current prius's, toyota was going to add artificial engine noises for ped's.
 
nweaver said:
Actually, they are close: For a lot of people, getting the range to a real 60-80 miles would be sufficient for a lot of stuff, and the top speed really only needs to go up to about 85-90 MPH.

LiFeP batteries are especially interesting, because unlike LiIon, they have the longevity and they are getting up there in capacity.
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I never need to go that fast, and only have done so on occasion.
 
Meter Man said:
I never need to go that fast, and only have done so on occasion.
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The reason why I want an 85 MPH top speed is a safety margin.

If your cruising on the freeway at 70 MPH, sometimes you need to accelerate to get out of a situation rather than brake.

If that is the absolute max, you're stuck. If not, no problem.

Also, frankly, I wanna take an electric bike to Sears pt. :teeth
 
I'm sure they already have in it where the output can be adjusted... max HP or max distance... just dial it whichever way you like. Now we're just waiting for the battery technology to catch up. :)
 
nweaver said:
Actually, they are close: For a lot of people, getting the range to a real 60-80 miles would be sufficient for a lot of stuff, and the top speed really only needs to go up to about 85-90 MPH.

LiFeP batteries are especially interesting, because unlike LiIon, they have the longevity and they are getting up there in capacity.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for this stuff to come to fruition, but I just don't think we're anywhere close to a reasonable price/performance option in real market terms. The underlying battery technology on all these things has been in development for decades and the advancements being made are minute at this point. Without a real technological breakthrough it ain't getting much better.

Can someone built a good city bike that goes 30 miles on a charge at 45 mph with this technology? Sure. But that's not really a motorcycle, it's an electric scooter. I don't think we'll see a true efficient electric motorcycle in the next 20 years unless there is a fundamental breakthrough in battery technology and construction/materials cost.
 
Archimedes said:
Can someone built a good city bike that goes 30 miles on a charge at 45 mph with this technology? Sure. But that's not really a motorcycle, it's an electric scooter. I don't think we'll see a true efficient electric motorcycle in the next 20 years unless there is a fundamental breakthrough in battery technology and construction/materials cost.
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Actually, the Brammo claims 60 MPH and a 40 mile range already, LiFeP battery technology, with a 4 hour recharge time, and a full wet weight of 325 lbs. And that LiFeP, which keeps getting better on the battery front at an astounding rate (it was basically an unused chemistry 5 years ago...)

Oddball tire tho on the front, uses an 18" front.

And most of the technology involved is electronic, which means the cost/unit goes down radically with more production. So the Brammo may be $11K each now (the price of a 600 supersport), but I'd suspect they could get it down to <$7K (the price of an SV650) within a couple of years.
 
PGATour said:
let me guess... you have a copy of this month's Playboy? LOL... Zero Motorcycles has a nice short article in there... I was wondering who was going to be the first to post up a question on Barf.
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I do have a copy of Playboy for this month, but the article is not there. It was in Playboy several months ago :laughing

There is a company in Oregon that makes electrical bikes and two of its engineers rode all the way from Michigan to Washington D.C. to show the president that electrical bikes are available as an alternative to gas powered motorcycles. They took the same route the CEOs of bailed-out auto companies had taken a while earlier to show off fuel efficient vehicles.

Check 'em out.
 
nweaver said:
Actually, the Brammo claims 60 MPH and a 40 mile range already, LiFeP battery technology, with a 4 hour recharge time, and a full wet weight of 325 lbs. And that LiFeP, which keeps getting better on the battery front at an astounding rate (it was basically an unused chemistry 5 years ago...)

Oddball tire tho on the front, uses an 18" front.

And most of the technology involved is electronic, which means the cost/unit goes down radically with more production. So the Brammo may be $11K each now (the price of a 600 supersport), but I'd suspect they could get it down to <$7K (the price of an SV650) within a couple of years.
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Well I consider that performance a bit of a joke and in no way a replacement for a gas powered motorcycle for the vast majority of riders. How many riders would own a bike with a 40 mile range? That's a short commute vehicle, not an all around motorcycle.

And I disagree about either price or the technology improving much over the next few years. Getting a battery technology to function and give marginal performance in a vehicle like this is fairly easy. It's the last mile that has proven elusive, i.e., getting the performance necessary to even approach gas powered options that has proven difficult, if not impossible, for decades. In my opinion, this stuff is just snake oil until they make a huge breakthrough in the science behind it. Absent that you'll see small improvements, but it'll never be the solution to our transportation challenges.
 
iehawk: My experience was a bit different than yours. With the little toggle switched to race mode the thing would wheelie easily and you could generate wheelspin leaving corners no problem. Even with it on boring mode the thing would pull up with little to no body english. Granted this was all <40mph but that's still pretty rockin in my opinion. I'd argue that the power seems similar to a 'corked' 250 four stroke, only cause i rode a buddies new crf just a few hours before. In the same place.
 
TripleThreat said:
Top speed of 55mph, and range of only 50 miles? I wait and check back in 10 years. At least the weight 270 Lbs is decent and it looks nice too.
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not quite....


55MPH OR 50 miles at like 30

the charges are not up to par to justify it.
 
vman said:
I do have a copy of Playboy for this month, but the article is not there. It was in Playboy several months ago :laughing

There is a company in Oregon that makes electrical bikes and two of its engineers rode all the way from Michigan to Washington D.C. to show the president that electrical bikes are available as an alternative to gas powered motorcycles. They took the same route the CEOs of bailed-out auto companies had taken a while earlier to show off fuel efficient vehicles.

Check 'em out.
Click to expand...

The article mentioned is in this one:

playboy_marge_simpson_short.jpg
 
Archimedes said:
Well I consider that performance a bit of a joke and in no way a replacement for a gas powered motorcycle for the vast majority of riders. How many riders would own a bike with a 40 mile range? That's a short commute vehicle, not an all around motorcycle.

And I disagree about either price or the technology improving much over the next few years. Getting a battery technology to function and give marginal performance in a vehicle like this is fairly easy. It's the last mile that has proven elusive, i.e., getting the performance necessary to even approach gas powered options that has proven difficult, if not impossible, for decades. In my opinion, this stuff is just snake oil until they make a huge breakthrough in the science behind it. Absent that you'll see small improvements, but it'll never be the solution to our transportation challenges.
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:laughing

Man, did you ever expect to be so wrong? Not just about electric motos, which have vastly improved since 2009, but electric cars? Chevy Bolt has a 238-mile EPA range, more in real-world (pre-prod model) testing:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...t-ev-first-drive-240-miles-in-an-electric-car

Zero Model S, 131 miles of combined range for $15,000, 81 miles for under $10,000:

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/specs.php

Not perfect but an enormous improvement in far less than 20 years and without any huge breakthrough in science.

Admit that your political leanings affect your scientific judgement. As Funkadellic says, free your mind and your ass will follow.
 
Basically anyone doubting electric moto tech and it's growth as it pertains to urban utility is burrying their head in the sand.
 
Last edited:
It's still limited usage.
Sure it's great for the city, but only if you can plug it in at night. In SF living in apartment without garage that might be difficult.

For commute only way I can make it to SF and back is if I buy the most expensive one, and even then it's at a limit of it's range.

I am hoping it improves, because simplicity of it appeals to me, but it's not quite there yet. :(
 
UDRider said:
It's still limited usage.
Sure it's great for the city, but only if you can plug it in at night. In SF living in apartment without garage that might be difficult.

For commute only way I can make it to SF and back is if I buy the most expensive one, and even then it's at a limit of it's range.

I am hoping it improves, because simplicity of it appeals to me, but it's not quite there yet. :(
Click to expand...

It's improved like 3x since 2009, so yeah, it will improve.

You're not the market for an electric motorcycle. But you're in the 5th percentile for commute distance.
 
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