Questions for Keith Code - Round Two

[Keith Code]

critique

Wow...we can get video critique from the man himself...this is just too awesome!

http://www.vimeo.com/1167961

For a little backround, I'm going racing next year, and this was a 3 lap sprint at the Keigwins intermediate school, in the A group. The wind was really gusty that day, so you'll see a few midcorner corrections in turn 2, and I was backing off in turn 8 a lot because I had problems figuring out how to get around people there. I backed off at around turn 10 on the last lap, because I realized that it wasn't worth stuffing the 1098 just to get repassed on the front straight, and let 2 other people blow by me as a result. Any comments of any sort are welcome That was around my 13th trackday, my 4th at Thill. SV is stock engine, pipe, upgraded suspension. Thanks!

All right, all right but you are taking advantage of me...

I was going to make a list of all the things that can be seen in video like this and I may still do that as a project but right now let me get this back to a learning experience instead of me just reeling off some answers:

It is hard to argue individual lines but it is easy to argue line theory. However, for track application and depending on the turn, an individual line can be critiqued based on a number of criteria.

Let's get a list of those going. I'll start off with a simple one:

Choosing a line that avoids a section of track that has a bump or patch or distracting seam in it. That line may not precisely follow line theory but can work out better for the rider.

That's one...

Now you...?

Keith

 

[Keith Code]

picking it up

I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring. It's interesting ya'll were talking earlier about the technique of picking up the bike while still hanging off, to get more contact patch down coming out of a turn--I already kind of came up with this on my own and use it a lot . However, I also use it a little differently on the street too. For instance when something unexpected happens mid-turn, like if I need to brake or go over a nasty looking bump/object I stand up the bike while keeping myself in the same place in space, so as to not widen my turn in the process. Does this have any place on the track? I have the feeling that the biggest challenge for me on a track day will be not getting distracted with other riders, and passing (hopefully ) and I wondered if this might be useful. Or maybe it's not! Thanks.

If you read those earlier posts you'd see the answer to your question unless I'm missing your question.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Choosing a line that exploits your bike's/your personal advantages, be it better cornering or power.

 

[Yody]

Picking a line that allows you to get on the gas the earliest

 

[Z3n]

Picking a line that gives you a better setup for the next corner, for passing, more cornerspeed, etc. Or, conversely, a line that gives you more margin to anticipate and compensate for what the rider in front of you does.

 

[Alexey]

In a racing situation, a line that is an after-effect of disruption of normal riding by forcing a pass and one or both riders getting off preferred line. Common example: a late braking inside maneuver that forces both riders to run wide into the corner, screw up the drive, and likely miss the apex.

A kind of opposite of a situation, where the rider tries to avoid a section of pavement: a line that takes a rider to a specific section on the track that provides better banking, pavement type, or a berm. Good example might be entry to turn 3 at Thunderhill exhibiting significantly less negative camber on the inside than outside, which results in a "too tight" a line being advantageous.

A section that, precedes (as was mentioned) or follows a much more important section. For instance, Loudon contains a very fast turn 1 after the longest straight on this tight track. Turns 2 and 2A that follow then lead out onto another bit of straightaway. The section comprised of 1, 2, and 2A is usually thought of as a single unit. A good rider can stay relatively deep on the brakes through 1, well past the apex, getting completely off the "classical" line, all in an effort to carry speed from the front straight as long as possible, then, kind of awkwardly transition from 1 to 2 (change of direction) and set up to begin the drive out of 2A nice and early.

 

[Lovedoc]

As the slowest guy in the room, I had to bring up the defensive line, though I certainly wouldn't try one, especially at a track day. Better to keep it tight and see how the faster guy rides.

 

[Keith Code]

Line critiques

Whoops, sorry folks, let me rephrase the question.

From video such as those submitted for critique by Lazerus and Z3n, what can be accurately seen and critiqued?

Once we get ourselves a good list then I'll be out of a job and you guys can critique the videos.

Keith

PS: The answers already given are good theory and some practical ones as well like Alexey's at Loudon.

 

[Z3n]

Line choice, throttle application, turn in location, apex location, choice of passing locations/passes in general. Those are the ones that spring to mind.

 

[Burning1]

Line choice, throttle application, turn in location, apex location, choice of passing locations/passes in general. Those are the ones that spring to mind.

Consistency of turn-in points, breaking points, etc. (Is it the same every lap?)

I like it when the rider uses a helmet cam. It makes it possible to critique their use of reference points, head position, and to see how far they are looking down the track.

 

[Z3n]

Consistency of turn-in points, breaking points, etc. (Is it the same every lap?)

I like it when the rider uses a helmet cam. It makes it possible to critique their use of reference points, head position, and to see how far they are looking down the track.

In the same line, I prefer chassis cams because they allow you to see what's going on with the bike chassis. There's a smooth line through 5a and it's really easy to see slides and bumps and headshake on the chassis cam, but more difficult in the helmet cam. As a result, I can see places where I need to lighten up on the bars (entrance to turn 2) or where I'm tensing up (end of the front straight) from the bike headshaking more than it should. Of course, that goes into my knowledge of my riding as well, but that's why it's there...a learning tool.

Also, there are times when my field of vision isn't an exact reflection of the point of my attention. I may not have my head looking very far down the track, but my eyes and attention could be focused on the exit without it being reflected in the camera. Also, I'm not sure how you'd critique my use of reference points via a helmet cam, as I'm not looking anywhere near my reference points when I come close to them. My avy is a good example of this...I'm looking "down" if you orient my helmet cam with my helmet, but midcorner I look out of the top part of my viewport, whereas when I'm upright I'm looking out of the middle of my viewport. I also cannot ride with a helmet that restricts my vision because I don't just look straight forward, my attention roves across my entire field of vision depending on where I am/what I am doing.

A lot of this could be fixed with a wide angle lense, but that still wouldn't, IMO, give me as much information on what the bike is doing when as mounting it on the chassis.

 

[Yody]

Whoops, sorry folks, let me rephrase the question.

From video such as those submitted for critique by Lazerus and Z3n, what can be accurately seen and critiqued?

Once we get ourselves a good list then I'll be out of a job and you guys can critique the videos.

Keith

PS: The answers already given are good theory and some practical ones as well like Alexey's at Loudon.

From the video, I observed too many line corrections. Instead of one positive steering input I'm noticing a lazier inital steering input and then midcorner inputs as well.

As well I noticed in T6 and T1 a lack of a hard drive once past the apex which are both great places to open the throttle greedily.

I also noticed a lot of off throttle moments, sorta no-man zone where he's slowing down by engine braking instead of holding the throttle open longer and using the brakes to slow down and then using a single positive and precise steering input for turn-in.

Saying this, I think a lot of it has to do with being in what I'd guess in a newer environment of a practice race. I'd venture that during an open track session many of these issues are probably not as apparent. However since racing is his goal I think these things should be addressed. Need more confidence riding among others in a race environment and being more confident and precise about being in close range and making calculated passes. Also not letting others crappy lines and slow riding affect your own. Although I did see a couple of pretty nice ones! Just gotta get more pracitce and make more of em



I think thats what you were asking, was for us to critique? If not my bad

 

[Z3n]

As well I noticed in T6 and T1 a lack of a hard drive once past the apex which are both great places to open the throttle greedily.

It's wide open, I promise. :|

I was really afraid of running into someone else or running up too close on their tails to really push past them, and was constantly trying to avoid getting too close to someone should something happen and they do something unexpected.

Need more confidence riding among others in a race environment and being more confident and precise about being in close range and making calculated passes. Also not letting others crappy lines and slow riding affect your own

Pretty much that, yeah. Unfortunantly, people tend to get angry when you stuff them at a trackday and try and drag knee on their fairings and stuff. I figure it'll get more comfortable when I have a little more racing experience. I also felt constantly held up in the corners but somehow still managed a 2:10 pace. 8 was the worst by far, where I should have been pinned, roll off, turn in, and back on the gas, I was BRAKING when i should have still been wide open to avoid asspacking into people, only to have them pull away up the hill because I carried no speed through the corner. More passing and less fear is what I need to work on for sure.

 

[jodea]

Widening attention

Keith/Budman - thanks for investing the time here. Probably reinforces your own skills to pass along the stories - but I have found the dialogue awesome!

My question is about widening my field of view. I had read through Wrist II and was practicing trying to widen my field of view. I am starting my way back through the book a second time.

However, as I practice trying to widen my field of attention/view I feel like my eyes are going unfocused - which creates the feeling of being less able to pick up individual threats and/or critical turn points.

Am I doing right/wrong? The unfocus may help reduce the stress on any individual detail and reduce the likelihood of target fixation. But, the feeling is unsettling.

Thoughts?

newbie johno

 

[Lazerus]

Not to try to put words in Keiths mouth, but I had a similar problem once upon a time. The key is to realize that the change is mental, not visual. Try staring at this sentence. Then, without moving your eyes, allow your vision to include the frame around my entire post. Without losing focus on the sentence, allow your vision to include the border of your monitor, and eventually the wall behind your screen. It's almost like a visual form of multitasking. You can pick up surface hazards, and make mental note of them, without looking straight at them.

Using brief moments of tunnel vision can be ok if you can control it. You can zero in on your turn in point while it is still up ahead in the distance, and use that to make a tag so that you can continue to keep tabs on it in your entire field of vision. Hope this helps, as this is how I coped with the adaptation to riding vision. It's in our nature to focus on unusual things, so deprogramming yourself takes a bit of exercise. With a bit of self discipline though, it is a very doable thing.

 

[bikerdr]

Hi Keith,

When I was at your school (level 1) we did the quick turn drill. What I believe I heard/remember with that drill was that you were supposed to get all your braking done while you were upright and then turn in quickly and achieving max lean angle, and then applying throttle to keep the suspension dialed.

I have been track riding for a year now and have been to your school and some track day providers who also offer schools. One of the things covered at the other providers was trail braking. I am wondering, how do you apply the quick turn philosophy while also trail braking? Or, was the quick turn drill designed to get people to learn how to get their bike over quickly when that technique is applicable (say, the back chicane at Sear's) and trail braking shouldn't be applied when utilizing the quick turn technique?

Thanks for any clarity you can provide on how quick turning and trail braking relate and/or intermingle.

Rob

 

[Yody]

Hi Keith,

When I was at your school (level 1) we did the quick turn drill. What I believe I heard/remember with that drill was that you were supposed to get all your braking done while you were upright and then turn in quickly and achieving max lean angle, and then applying throttle to keep the suspension dialed.

I have been track riding for a year now and have been to your school and some track day providers who also offer schools. One of the things covered at the other providers was trail braking. I am wondering, how do you apply the quick turn philosophy while also trail braking? Or, was the quick turn drill designed to get people to learn how to get their bike over quickly when that technique is applicable (say, the back chicane at Sear's) and trail braking shouldn't be applied when utilizing the quick turn technique?

Thanks for any clarity you can provide on how quick turning and trail braking relate and/or intermingle.

Rob

"opens can of worms"

 

[bikerdr]

Well, I figure if I'm trail braking and I get the bike over fast I'm in danger of losing the front end, right?

The guys in MotoGP seem to do everything super smooth style, which would go along with what the track day provider told me, "as lean angle increases trail braking decreases but you should be smooth with everything."

If you watch Mladin he just slams the thing to the ground in a lot of the turns which seems to me to be more of the quick turn style.

I'm wondering if I am indeed looking at two different styles/philosophies or if there's a way to combine the styles, or what. I just want to be a good rider!

 

[Yody]

You'll hear opposing opinions from varying gurus. So far my theory is learn it all and apply individual techniques to individual corners. These gurus can teach you their particular style but IMO its up to the rider to decide for themselves when and where to apply it and furthermore which type of style do they feel the most comfortable with (can also vary due to bike types/setups) But first I think you gotta try them out before deciding which is the best.....just like tires....they all work great and are all all capable of carrying riders really really fast however which tire do you feel the most comfortable on and which one gives you the most confidence? You can apply the same theory to riding techniques.....again look at each turn and the best way to approach it instead of just thinking counter steering v trail braking

 

[bikerdr]

I hear ya and agree. I look forward to hearing Keith weigh in on the topic!