Are dealerships delusional about used bike prices?

[RightCoastBias]

Ahem
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474966

2009 Ninja 250 @ $3,200...

 

[genadyl]

4k out the door? To me.. that sounds like nearly new pricing.

Don't think about moto sales in terms of car sales.
5K MSRP does not equal 4K out of the door, as you would with many car sales, as they give you prices thousands below MSRP.

In moto sales world it is very case by case situation. If dealer has only small number of bikes available and there is high demand you are not going to see any discount at all (especially around spring-summer season).
If it is a winter and they have some "left over" bikes you can negotiate some nice deals.

For instance - couple of years back Kawi pretty much screwed up their production line and dealers had no inventory, so your chances to get discount on new Ninja there - 0%.

One more thing - take in account bike condition and age rather than just price:
You may have to pay very soon on older bike to replace:
- tires
- battery
- brake pads
- carburator cleaning (on carb bikes)
- fuel lines and tank cleaning if bike has been sitting for a long time
e.t.c

Meaning 3K for a newer bike with nothing needed would be cheaper than 2500 for few years older bike that has been sitting in someones garage for last 5 years.

 

[aram]

I'd say your chances of getting a newer 250R for $2500 OTD is slim to none.

I'd take 10 at that price. Buying a ninja 250/300 cbr250r is hard because lots of people want them. The old gen ninja 250s will probably still sell around 1800 private party for a really nice one. Getting even one of those at 2500 otd from a dealer would be tough. No money in it for them.

 

[NoTraffic]

Just my two cents, if you are looking for a steal you just have to wait. Dealerships can afford to creating a markup because they know they'll eventually attract someone willing to shell out that price. It's not only motorcycles, it's everything that has turned to e-commerce. Why does someone buy something at Best Buy when they can prob. get it 10% less online? Because they want it NOW (and other factors like seeing it in person).

You also have to understand your bike lineage. In 2009, this was the first year that the CBR250 was offered. I think many had them on pre-order just to make sure they had one. 2008-09 for the Ninja 250 was also the generations which received a large facelift in its design.

You CAN get a bike for that price, you just have to play the sit & watch game. It took me 2 months to find the right CBR600rr at the right time and right condition.

For your first bike, I would look at something else. If the only situation for you to get a bike is through a loan and only covers 2009 or later, you might need to re-evaluate what your expectations are. And remember, almost none of us after riding 3+ years ever keep the original bike we had (if so, we usually have added an extra one). You can probably get a used Shadow 250 at that level.

 

[crick]

You can probably get a used Shadow 250 at that level.

you mean a honda rebel 250? or do they make shadow 250's?

 

[Hazardous Waste]

Just my 2 cents worth. I've had at least 60 cycles. Most have been used except the race bikes or dirt bikes. 4 weeks ago I was in the market for another Buell for a track bike. I had cash in hand. I wanted an XB12r. I was looking all over the state of Calif. I found 3 here ( 2 in SoCal) that meet the criteria, low miles mostly stock. Most of the private sellers were asking way over the KBB value. That's the reference I was using as a base. I don't know if it was low or high but it is what most buyers use. So going to look I found that 2 of the 3 had a title problem and sellers not willing to dicker. I just walk. I know there was more bikes for sale at the time than buyers. The last 4 bikes I have bought have come from a new bike dealer. One was a new street bike that I got a great deal on and good money for my trade. I had bought a used dirt bike from them recently.
The other was a used sport touring bike bought from a dealer that had low miles and I paid less than KBB by $1300. That bike I put 40k doing trips and a little commuting.
So having private sellers who won't budge on their price I started looking in other western states.
I found the perfect bike for the price I was willing to pay ($1000 less than BB ) and it only had 5k on the clock. A 2009 XBR for less than most wanted for a 2005. I bought this bike at a dealer also. Yes I had to travel a ways to get it. It was originally a Calif bike so that cures the mileage issue. I think the dealers want to move volume. They can't have bikes sitting around.
Be patient, be willing to WALK, be diligent on calling as soon as possible. You'll find the right bike, its out there with your name on it!

 

[fubar929]

Ok, Ok.. so you've all made it clear that I'm way off and that the advice that my buddies gave is out of date. What's realistic then? 4k out the door? To me.. that sounds like nearly new pricing.

Look at prices for CBR250Rs on Craig's List. They're all in the $3000-3800 range. The $3000 ones seem to have all been dropped or crashed, though. Figure tax and DMV fees will be 10%, so add another $300-380 to the price. That leaves you looking at $3300-$4180. If you want to land in the $2500-3000 range you'll probably need to look at an older bike. Maybe an older Ninja 250?

 

[bcv_west]

What we've been saying. To save your pennies and buy a used private-party starter bike that might not be as cool-looking outright, for less money. $2500 in hand will cover you for sure, if you're patient.

In one ear...

OP, just a thought. If you can afford a monthly payment, registration, gas, and regular maintenance on a bike, could you afford to put aside that same money and buy one outright in a bit? It literally saves you, what, probably $1500 minimum when you add up dealer's markup and interest. If you finance the whole amount and buy it from a dealer, you pay the dealer's markup, which as you've noted is pretty steep. So now you owe a lot more than its private party resale. So you're pretty much stuck if it's not right for you, or it breaks. $200/month * 12 months = $2400, and you're the proud owner of your paid-for, worth what you paid when you resell it, new-to-you motorcycle.

 

[moto-rama]

....

Sure.. you can find the occasional deal. But, you'd have to act quick and pounce with cash in hand.

That

 

[Ogier le Danois]

you mean a honda rebel 250? or do they make shadow 250's?

They don't sell a 250 shadow in the US. They do in other markets.

 

[NoTraffic]

you mean a honda rebel 250? or do they make shadow 250's?

good catch, yes i meant a rebel 250

 

[revster]

You'll have an easier time getting a great deal on a bike that isn't in high demand.

An old friend started on an EX500. Great starter bike for under $2k used.

Good luck.

 

[genadyl]

+1 on Ninja 500.
I started on one and still have good memories about this bike.

You'll have an easier time getting a great deal on a bike that isn't in high demand.

An old friend started on an EX500. Great starter bike for under $2k used.

Good luck.

 

[fubar929]

So you're pretty much stuck if it's not right for you, or it breaks.

This is an important point: most beginners are going to drop/crash their first bike, potentially lowering the value dramatically, and in my experience they're also likely to want a different bike in fairly short order. Wanting a different bike is especially likely if you pick one with a small-displacement motor.

If it were me, I'd: 1) save more money so I could pay cash for the bike, or 2) I'd consider buying a bike that you're less likely to outgrow. Bikes like the Ninja 500, Ninja 650R, Suzuki SV650, Bandit 600, etc. are better choices than a Ninja 250/300 or CBR250R, IMHO, if you're going to be underwater in a loan for 3+ years...

 

[nine_inch_rear]

excellent folks at moto java in SF. Bought a bike from them years back. They go through them quite thoroughly before sale

 

[NTron3000]

Don't listen to any of those 'save your money' types. You are taking out a pretty manageable loan. And it lets you ride now which is your goal. Do it. YOLO and whatnot. You're not getting a 16k fancypantswizbang and mortgaging the family farm (that will come later when you're well and truly addicted).

Unless you get to riding and end up hating it this won't be the last bike you buy. Don't be to precious about it or overthink it. Buy what you can afford and want now and if you drop it and scratch a fairing you'll lose a couple hundred when you sell it which is no big deal... or maybe not. There is no rule that you 'have' to drop your bike. In fact its probably healthier to think you never will go down and ride like you mean it. Acknowledge and be prepared for the reality it could happen but don't assume your going to crash.

 

[Roadstergal]

There is no rule that you 'have' to drop your bike.

Just to address this - no, there isn't. I never dropped my GS500. But there is a decent chance a new rider will, and I accepted that chance in getting a lightish, cheap, non-new bike that I wouldn't worry about dropping or picking up - and I wouldn't be surprised if not having that Immaculate Pretty Thing concern in the back of my mind helped me not drop it, perversely.

 

[Honey Badger]

OP, it sounds like you've found some bikes OTD that come really close to what you're hoping for - $3200 OTD vs 3000 is pretty damn close for an '09 bike (go ahead and let your BF negotiate - then be the owner ). Pony up a small down payment of $200 and you have a bike.

2009+ bikes don't usually go that cheap, even for small ones, so I'd say that's not a bad deal if you HAVE to go through a dealer.

If you can avoid dealers, then watch the ads, but keep in mind it's rather easy to get taken advantage of by private sellers who damn near total a bike, slap some pretty plastics on, and try to call it good with some well-hidden damage.

 

[robbyking]

I'm also a new rider, and I recently bought my first bike from a private party on Craigslist. In my experience, KBB prices have literally zero relationship with what used bikes are actually selling for on the market.

When it was time for me to negotiate the price of my bike, I went online and found comparable closed eBay actions within 100 miles of my zip code, and used that average as my baseline. FWIW, the KBB price was about 50% of the average completed auction price in the Bay Area.

As far as dealer pricing goes, I've been watching the J&M Motorsports thread on BARF, and some of their bikes seem to be priced spot on, and others seem really high. I'm not sure what formula they use, but it seems like it isn't 1005 consistent from bike to bike.

Good luck!

 

[fubar929]

As far as dealer pricing goes, I've been watching the J&M Motorsports thread on BARF, and some of their bikes seem to be priced spot on, and others seem really high. I'm not sure what formula they use, but it seems like it isn't 1005 consistent from bike to bike.

In my experience, their prices are always astronomical. They might seem reasonable, but then when you go look at the bike you find that the condition doesn't match the asking price. YMMV, of course, but I was thoroughly disappointed by J&M...