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2021 Ford Bronco - shots fired

ScarySpikes said:
Someone did a render, though the paint job isn't accurate to the original:

Jurrasic+ST.jpg


It's still really big. It looks better that the previous gen, sure. I think the reason the guy that did the photo shop on this one didn't do an accurate one is because the actual Jurassic park paint style wouldn't work well with the rounded edges

The original was very flat and squared off, which is why the also flat and squared off looking bronco sport works better IMO.

L1020585.jpg
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Yikes! Yeah the lines just ruin it. :dunno

TheRobSJ said:
Service department carries the store in most cases.

The margin...no, the “margin” in new cars is pathetic. We routinely sell cars at a loss. If you did a straight sticker deal on a $40k car, there’s maybe $3-4k of profit in that. And in this day and age, just about everyone is selling at invoice or less. So on the P&L sheet, it looks like a business being busted out by the mafia. Last year, on just the MDX deals, my store lost over $1M.

Of course there’s backend money. There may be an incentive (trunk money) from the manufacturer paid to the dealer after the vehicle is sold. This is how you see those seemingly impossible $15k discounts on new pickups and such. Three years ago, American Honda gave us a $30k incentive on the NSX. On. Fully loaded one, which stickered right around $200k, there was really only $15k profit in it. Now a dealer could cut around $45k and still break even. Then there’s other bullshit things a dealer can use to put profit back in the deal. Sell you a LoJack, overglorified was job, some kind of anti theft snake oil shit, overpriced service contracts, the list goes on. Hell, they can even make money on the points if you get a shit APR because you didn’t qualify for the manufacturer’s financing....or even if you did maybe they got a kickback for that too. But that backend money varies widely, deal to deal. So it is absolutely possible that after it’s alll said and done, they really made nothing or even lost some money on a deal. And it’s also possible that some mark came in and laid down to somehow make the dealer $8k in profit on a used Accord.

But in the end, service carries the store. Or I should say fixed ops which encompasses the parts department too.
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I've heard in the past that financing kickbacks are pretty much what carry the sales team. Apparently cash buyers aren't favored like they used to be.

tzrider said:
One thing we don't hear much about is how a turboed engine performs at altitude. These trucks we're talking about, if they are used offroad in the west, will often be used at fairly high altitude. Naturally aspirated fire-breathing engines breathe a little less fire up there. Forced induction loses little or nothing at 9K feet.
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Indeed. I've gone over 108 multiple times in the Ranger and it never seems like it's running out of breath. :thumbup

aminalmutha said:
I strongly disagree. Modern engines are expected to last well beyond 100k miles. 200k isn't unusual. Go back to the days of carburetors and that wasn't necessarily the case.
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Kelly's Heep has lasted almost 180,000 miles on the 5.7 V8 and it's never even had more than standard scheduled maintenance performed. I'm actually surprised it hasn't grenaded yet...but I'm not a Mopar fan either. :laughing

byke said:
Nearly zero plastic garbage under the hood of big rigs. Lots of plastic garbage under the hood of modern vehicles.
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When's the last time you were under an OTR's hood? Hell, even my non-OTR class 8's are LOADED with plastic parts now. It's been this way for well over 10-15 years now. The OEM's are making anything out of plastic that they can in order to reduce weight and increase MPGs. The majority of the engine's exhaust system, where the heat really comes from on modern trucks anyway, is completely wrapped in thermal blankets from the factory.

aminalmutha said:
Y'all realize OTR trucks have used turbos for decades? And work many times harder and longer than any car on the road?

Today's cars aren't Mustang SVO's with turbocharged Pinto motors.
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Exactly.
 
Kornholio said:
I've heard in the past that financing kickbacks are pretty much what carry the sales team. Apparently cash buyers aren't favored like they used to be.
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Yea, it's basically been said that if you're cash buyer, simply don't tell them until you get to financing.

When's the last time you were under an OTR's hood? Hell, even my non-OTR class 8's are LOADED with plastic parts now. It's been this way for well over 10-15 years now. The OEM's are making anything out of plastic that they can in order to reduce weight and increase MPGs. The majority of the engine's exhaust system, where the heat really comes from on modern trucks anyway, is completely wrapped in thermal blankets from the factory.
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The drive to these 8, 9, 10 speed automatic transmissions is for mileage as well. My 8 speed in the Jeep is nice, but being uncertain, it was one of the reasons I got the extended service contract (not the only one, mind, this thing has more computers than I do).
 
Kornholio said:
I've heard in the past that financing kickbacks are pretty much what carry the sales team. Apparently cash buyers aren't favored like they used to be.
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Cash is king in private sales. But not in buying a car from a dealer. If you intend to pay cash, don’t declare that till it’s time to start drawing up a contract. If they think they’ve still got a chance to make profit on the backend with points on the loan or add on shit that you’ll just finance for “a few dollars a month more” then they might budge a bit more on the selling price.

My last car deal, despite buying the most expensive car on the lot At a Chevy store, I was treated like I really didn’t matter and they could take me just as well as leave me...even from the dealer I wound up buying the car from. How’s that happen? Right off the bat, I said it’s a cash deal, no financing, no trade, no hassle, and just give me an OTD price and I’ll show up with a cashiers check. Plus to put a cherry on top I also said that I also work for a dealer. They know right away then there’s a finite amount of money to work with. They can’t make money on points. They have little to no chance of selling me add ons if I’m showing up with a check already cut. And can’t make any money raping me on trade. The F&I guy made a feeble attempt to sell me add ons anyway, to which I gave the reply he probably expected. Well I showed up with a cashiers check for an OTD price of xxx and I’m not going go get another check, so if you want any of that stuff in the deal you better find a way to do it so the OTD is the same price. So yeah we blew through that portion of “being in the box” in record speed.

Dealers sometimes get more kickbacks from the manufacturer and/or the manufacturer’s financing arm for leasing. I recently put together a deal for my aunt. Cash deal, finance, lease and buy the residual , and one pay lease and buy the residual. Amazingly enough, we had so much more in incentives we could apply, the best deal for her by a couple grand was leasing. The one pay was the very best deal, but for several reasons you shouldn’t do a one pay lease.
 
berth said:
Yea, it's basically been said that if you're cash buyer, simply don't tell them until you get to financing.
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Just to expand on my own recent personal experience. The reason why I laid all my cards on the table like that was because I was an out of town buyer. Another reason why I was treated like a second class citizen...since they know they’ll never see me again for service and parts.

But if you’re like most car buyers and you have a trade, you’re physically there on the lot doing the test drive and being “sold” a car, then yes absolutely don’t declare your intentions on how you’re paying until you’re in the box.
 
berth said:
Yea, it's basically been said that if you're cash buyer, simply don't tell them until you get to financing.
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The last time I bought a new car - October 2014 - I intended to pay cash. The dealer offered us an additional $1000 off to finance it. So we paid all but $10,000 and financed that for a few months, then paid off the loan. That saved us an additional $700-800.
 
berth said:
Yea, it's basically been said that if you're cash buyer, simply don't tell them until you get to financing.


The drive to these 8, 9, 10 speed automatic transmissions is for mileage as well. My 8 speed in the Jeep is nice, but being uncertain, it was one of the reasons I got the extended service contract (not the only one, mind, this thing has more computers than I do).
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ZF 8 speed is awesome. That's been a huge difference between today's vehicles and those of yore. Super quick shifting, really helps efficiency.
 
Just as long as we don't have a CVT. I've driven enough CVT equipped rental cars to be firmly in the nope camp on those steaming piles.
 
wazzuFreddo said:
Just as long as we don't have a CVT. I've driven enough CVT equipped rental cars to be firmly in the nope camp on those steaming piles.
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CVT is a no-go for me. That is one place we have gone backward. Yes, they can be more efficient, but they have proven to be not very durable and they absolutely SUCK to drive.

If I get any Nissan (unless it's a GT-R... Ha!) from Avis, I will refuse. I have had a Versa and a Sentra and they were horrid and it all came down to the transmission. I imagine a ZF 8 speed is too expensive for those cars, but it would be infinitely better than the absolute garbage CVT's they have.

Good luck passing a slow car, it ain't gonna happen.
 
wazzuFreddo said:
Just as long as we don't have a CVT. I've driven enough CVT equipped rental cars to be firmly in the nope camp on those steaming piles.
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Oh God the one I drove to FL one time was a steaming pile of shit. I thought it was just the Nissan CVT but guess not. I think that was the first/last time I got stuck with that type of tranny.
 
I had a Corolla rental with a CVT and that sucked bawlz pretty hard, but was not quite as horrid as the Nissans. Very thrashy, noisy, horrible acceleration, especially at highway speeds. The GM and Ford autos I've had were infinitely better.
 
aminalmutha said:
CVT is a no-go for me. That is one place we have gone backward. Yes, they can be more efficient, but they have proven to be not very durable and they absolutely SUCK to drive.

If I get any Nissan (unless it's a GT-R... Ha!) from Avis, I will refuse. I have had a Versa and a Sentra and they were horrid and it all came down to the transmission. I imagine a ZF 8 speed is too expensive for those cars, but it would be infinitely better than the absolute garbage CVT's they have.

Good luck passing a slow car, it ain't gonna happen.
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Dude. The Nissan Sentra CVT. I ended up with one in Boise not knowing anything about them. Getting on 84 at the airport my buddy and I thought a convoy of semis were just going to drive over the top of us. We both had zero CVT experience in a car and it took a few miles to learn just to put the foot to the floor in order to go anywhere. There is no get up in those cars. Even if the engine hamsters are screaming, the slugs only move so fast.
Never again.
 
Well, here's a rundown of the competition.

Basically every "off road" vehicle on the market from the major brands.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g15377906/best-off-road-vehicles-suv-2020/?slide=37

Based on the brief descriptions, I think only the Wrangler (and perhaps the Gladiator) can have a locker on the front.

But then, similarly, I know my JGC does not have a front locker, but it has that system where they apply the brakes to the spinning wheel to move traction to the "not spinning" wheel (and honestly I think the Jeep system is more sophisticated than that), but in the end, the front has a "virtual" locker. I imagine the others do as well.
 
I've driven the last two models of Wrangler extensively as rental cars. Not bad, but kind of small for everyday use.

The Bronco looks bigger which makes it seem easier to live with day to day. I'm interesting in test driving one when they come out.
 
wazzuFreddo said:
I've driven the last two models of Wrangler extensively as rental cars. Not bad, but kind of small for everyday use.

The Bronco looks bigger which makes it seem easier to live with day to day. I'm interesting in test driving one when they come out.
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One thing of note that the dealership told me they've seen a lot of issues with - the hard top on the wrangler being sectional has caused lots of leaky roofs in rain. I'm wondering how the Bronco's will differ or if they've even addressed it.
 
removable roofs have always been a leak point, it doesn't matter which manufacturer. it's a known problem on the original bronco and blazer to the point that if you ever took the roof off it WILL leak after reinstallation. water goes through holes, convertibles are just holes waiting to be opened.
 
As with any convertible, you have to take care when putting the top back up to make sure seals are properly lined up. Another think to check is that drain holes stay clear and you're not putting the top back on with a bunch of debris in there.
 
auntiebling said:
removable roofs have always been a leak point, it doesn't matter which manufacturer. it's a known problem on the original bronco and blazer to the point that if you ever took the roof off it WILL leak after reinstallation. water goes through holes, convertibles are just holes waiting to be opened.
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Yeah, total deal breaker for me. I am not at all interested in removable roofs on cars.
 
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