95 mpg

[JesasaurusRex]

Red Dye Diesel FTW!

good luck finding that in walnut creek

 

[JesasaurusRex]

It's funny, we forget to run the numbers on some of this stuff. I'm starting to look for a truck and was turned off by the cost of a diesel, but noticed you can pick up the gas V10s for cheap. Driving 10k/yr (I'm not a mileage murderer) with the 10mpg (combined) V10 @ $3.50/gl versus the 15mpg (combined) 7.3 Powerstroke @ $4/gl, turns out to be a difference of $16/wk. If I spend an extra $5k for a diesel (probably more) on the used market, it'd take six years before the diesel savings would be realized. Obviously there are other factors like towing, longevity, etc. that play into the overall decision, but it's worth analyzing if one thinks the purchase is for the savings.

Here's a simple little calculator/comparison site if anyone is interested:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/savemoney.shtml

You know, i bet most people can't justify a diesel. Still cool tho

 

[Reli]

If we are talking size, the volt has less room inside than the Honda Fit.

More features but smaller.

It all depends on what you are looking for. If you want bells and whistles the Volt wins. If you want to not spend a lot of money, it loses.

Since we're talking a long period of ownership and lots of miles, I'll take the Volt anyday over the lightweight tin can known as the Honda Fit. I haven't ever driven a Honda that didn't have excessive road noise. That shits gets annoying on long trips.

Not to mention, um, torque? Honduhs are for kids who always redline it to make themselves "feel" like it's fast, when it's really just making noise.

 

[Reli]

stereo: check, likely better than 80% of new cars out there

In a 13 year old Civic? Um yeah, I'm sure there's great acoustics in THAT cabin...

 

[Johndicezx9]

IIIRC, when that Lexus came out, it was allowed in the carpool lane. just going off of what i remember. no i dont google search everything before i post of barf :roll eyes


and reguardless if "51% of americans commute X distance or less", 20miles on a single charge is past a joke or a troll - its insulting. and as jesrex says, if your commute it short, how are you going to make your money back by going electric or hybrid? seems like the only reason that i can come up with to buy one is to make you feel smug. just go buy a Prius and be done with it.

Not really helping your argument much, but I can respect your opinion, it's just not for everyone... your opinion, that is, and mine isn't either.

 

[250mL]

I like the driving characteristics of a meaty torque curve (relative to other econo options), thus my attraction to the TDIs. I can get this type of torque with an electric vehicle (yes, my current 11 mile commute will be that much more exhilarating. ) After buying a brand new 2000 Civic, driving it for 4 years and 120,000 miles, I got tired of having to rev the thing to the moon in order to have "fun" in the car. I now sit in a 2000 Golf TDI and am much happier with my choice in vehicle (both the tangible and non-tangible aspects, see below). I am guessing a Volt would be suitable in these regards too.

Then I can get a large portion of my yearly mileage at a discount (granted, it's still a relatively small mileage number).
The balance of my mileage would be at 37MPG using Premium fuel, which is not too unlike my 42MPG using Diesel fuel (again, a difference so small considering my yearly mileage).

I also am thinking about a home solar array, so am factoring in costs:benefits with both in play.

Again, I know full well that spending money to save money in my case is a loosing financial hand (both the home solar array, and an electric vehicle). I just want to understand how much I could be losing.

But it's not all about the money. Remember, I own a VW, so the common perception is that one has to have some ungodly draw to keep an old POS German money-pit around after warranty. Well, I sit here proudly and claim a smug attitude with my choice to pay a premium for using biodiesel fuel. It's an attitude just as smug as those who toot their horn for deciding to drive a mile distance in 10seconds, or sport a 13 year old car that gets 51MPG and rocks a killer stereo system.

It's a far-flung fantasy to move to less dependence on the grid. I'm just having fun daydreaming. Land, well water, septic system...check, check, check. Just moving down the line...

 

[SpeedyCorky]

ahem, 52mpg...


and while the stereo is quite good, i will admit the acoustics of a stripped civic leave a lot to be desired

 

[Hawaiirider]

I'm in the same TDI boat as 250ml - I frequently get asked if the fuel mileage nets out better than some other vehicle because of the premium price of Biodiesel fuel and 'the premium of owing a diesel car'.

To which I say, " I don't know/care." As far as additional expenses go, there haven't been any, just oil changes every 10,000 miles - and I paid the same for my '06 leftover tdi as they were charging for new gassers in 2007, so that's a wash in my book.

What I did decide however, was that our current use of gasoline really wasn't working out so great for society and that if we want a different future perhaps we should start making alternative choices. Not to say the Bio-fuels are that answer, but diversifying our energy mix and using re-cycled & renewables could help the situation.

It's the "If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting." rule, and how IS that working out for us ?

What I found was that the TDI Jetta is really fun to drive. So that's a plus. I also like the 600 mile range on a tank of fuel - again, not a must-have, but nice not having to fill up more than twice a month.

When I replace this car I will be taking a long look at electrics - with my 25-mile commute (each way) if a charge could be done at either end of the trip, I could be fuel-free for 90+% of my driving. That would be nice. Until then it's me & Willie Nelson, trying to save the planet.

I don't really have a lot of my ego tied up in my car, I just like to go places.

 

[Horse]

Wow, this thread is still alive. loooool

First of all, the Volt isn't a gay car. No self respecting tasteful gay man would be caught driving something so ugly. Second, you cant compare a ugly cheap Chevy with anything else but a ugly cheap Chevy. Anything else would be an insult to the other car brands.

Compare the Volt (MSRP from $31,645) to its slightly less uglified sibling the Chevy Cruze. (MSRP from $17,130)

http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car.html
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html

Both cars are built on the same exact platform. The econo Cruze gets 42mpg. The Volt is almost twice as much coin, and only gets better mileage if you have short drives and plug it in every night. Once you go past 40 miles it gets less mileage than the Cruze. (42mpg for Cruze, 40mpg for Volt) Here is a comparison from car and driver.
http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...t-vs-2011-chevrolet-cruze-eco-comparison-test

Lets do some simple math. Lets say you plug in your Volt every single night. (Which is unlikely) And drive it under battery 40 miles every single day. (best case scenario for Volt) That is 40 miles x 365 days equals 14,600 miles a year. You did this on $365 bucks in electricity. (dollar a full charge)

Now lets take the Chevy Cruze. 14,600 miles a year divided by 42mpg, is 348 gallons of fuel x 4 bucks a gallon. $1390 Congrats, you saved a little over a thousand bucks a year driving the Volt.

Now lets say your gas car only gets 21mpg. (Half of what the Cruze gets) $2781 in fuel cost for driving 14,600 miles a year. Congrats, you only saved $2415 a year in fuel driving the Volt. This is under the best case scenario for the Volt.

So how in the hell can you justify saving money driving this ugly as hell overpriced econo car if it only saves you a thou a year compared to its brother the Cruze? Especially if you are the type of successful person who likes to drive a new car every two or three years.


Get real.

 

[250mL]

I know damn well that I'd have to keep the car longer than I usually keep a car in order for the cost of the fancy EV powertrain to balance out. It's the same argument when people drop an extra $7-8k for a diesel over the biggest gasoline engine in a pickup. Yeah the diesel gets better mileage, but you'd have to drive that truck over 150k miles in order for that diesel paid for itself.

The below quote is why it's not so much a big financial deal when considering a new diesel purchase.

If I spend an extra $5k for a diesel (probably more) on the used market

That $7000-8000 upfront returns $5,000+ when looking to resell. So the premium is only $2000-$3000, not as bad.


Then ask yourself what a gasoline motor feels like versus a diesel when you try to sell it with over 150K miles or more...

205k, hoping to get another 200k out of her arty

It's funny, we forget to run the numbers on some of this stuff. I'm starting to look for a truck and was turned off by the cost of a diesel, but noticed you can pick up the gas V10s for cheap. Driving 10k/yr (I'm not a mileage murderer) with the 10mpg (combined) V10 @ $3.50/gl versus the 15mpg (combined) 7.3 Powerstroke @ $4/gl, turns out to be a difference of $16/wk. If I spend an extra $5k for a diesel (probably more) on the used market, it'd take six years before the diesel savings would be realized. Obviously there are other factors like towing, longevity, etc. that play into the overall decision, but it's worth analyzing if one thinks the purchase is for the savings.

Here's a simple little calculator/comparison site if anyone is interested:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/savemoney.shtml

Now if you intend to drive your used truck into the ground, then you don't have residual value and will only have time on your hands and MPG to makeup the cost difference. Those other factors like towing ability and penis enlargement are worth different things to different people.

BTW, I purchased my non-turbo crew cab penis enhancer with 250,000 miles for cheap.

 

[Diver5150]

Wow, this thread is still alive. loooool

First of all, the Volt isn't a gay car. No self respecting tasteful gay man would be caught driving something so ugly. Second, you cant compare a ugly cheap Chevy with anything else but a ugly cheap Chevy. Anything else would be an insult to the other car brands.

Compare the Volt (MSRP from $31,645) to its slightly less uglified sibling the Chevy Cruze. (MSRP from $17,130)

http://www.chevrolet.com/cruze-compact-car.html
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html

Both cars are built on the same exact platform. The econo Cruze gets 42mpg. The Volt is almost twice as much coin, and only gets better mileage if you have short drives and plug it in every night. Once you go past 40 miles it gets less mileage than the Cruze. (42mpg for Cruze, 40mpg for Volt) Here is a comparison from car and driver.
http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...t-vs-2011-chevrolet-cruze-eco-comparison-test

Lets do some simple math. Lets say you plug in your Volt every single night. (Which is unlikely) And drive it under battery 40 miles every single day. (best case scenario for Volt) That is 40 miles x 365 days equals 14,600 miles a year. You did this on $365 bucks in electricity. (dollar a full charge)

Now lets take the Chevy Cruze. 14,600 miles a year divided by 42mpg, is 348 gallons of fuel x 4 bucks a gallon. $1390 Congrats, you saved a little over a thousand bucks a year driving the Volt.

Now lets say your gas car only gets 21mpg. (Half of what the Cruze gets) $2781 in fuel cost for driving 14,600 miles a year. Congrats, you only saved $2415 a year in fuel driving the Volt. This is under the best case scenario for the Volt.

So how in the hell can you justify saving money driving this ugly as hell overpriced econo car if it only saves you a thou a year compared to its brother the Cruze? Especially if you are the type of successful person who likes to drive a new car every two or three years.


Get real.

No. The best case scenario is to commute 40 miles one way and have a 240v charging station at work so you can recharge. If you don't have to pay for the electricity at work then it should more than double the savings on work days, but I'm not doing the math to figure it out.

Seriously though, even if you commute 40 miles each way, I don't see how you could justify a Volt based strictly on cost. If somebody wants to buy one, go ahead, just don't hand me some BS about how much money your saving.

 

[TheRobSJ]

It's not about just saving money. Some people just want to be less oil dependant. Some, like me, are just fucking lazy and hate stopping for gas all the time. Some want to be trendy and have a conversation piece in their garage (just like the Prius was when it was coming up). Some want a piece of good ol fashioned American engineering and manufacturing. Or maybe it's a combination of some, all, or more of those things.


FWIW, Jay Leno (whether you think he's funny or not) is someone I don't think anyone is gonna doubt is very much a "car guy." He's got Lamborghini wing in his garage. He's got a assortment of everything from steam powered Stanleys to all of the supercars to bare the McLaren name. And a lot inbetween including a pretty big collection of bikes. Also the money to buy pretty much anything else he wants in the future.

He drives a Volt to work every day in Burbank. I believe he said in an interview that he went a whole year and never had to put gas in it.

 

[Hawaiirider]

Thanks for the calculator. Using just that, comparing my Jetta TDI using Biodiesel at $ 4.60/gal compared to my last car ( Volvo V70 ) that got 25 mpg at $ 4.20/gal, I save $ 916.00 a year.

 

[TheRobSJ]

^^^^ huh?!?!?

a 4 door, 3500+lb "hybrid" that goes all of 20 miles.

like seriously, are the auto makers just trolling us? 20 miles? 20 miles?

why even bother?!

You'll love this then.

The Accord Plug In has an EV range of just 13 miles. Not very spectacular there. But then it becomes a Accord Hybrid that gets 46mpg. Also qualifies for the green carpool lane sticker. It's a whopping $7k more than the top of the line Accord Touring. But that gets set back once the tax credit gets accounted for.

A Prius Plug In claims 15 mile EV range but some have gotten less than 10 miles. Then it becomes like a regular Prius that's good for 50mpg. Also a $40k purchase and you get a green sticker.

The Ford Fusion Energi has an EV range of 20 miles. Then once the gas engine fires up, you get a highly disputed 47mpg hybrid car. Also about $40k.

So really the Volt ain't half bad as far as EV range goes with these plug in cars. No it can't stretch as far as a pure battery car like a Leaf, but it also isn't stranded once the battery depletes.

And the $100k Fisker Karma is the best with a 50 mile EV range. Providing that you don't use the 402hp 959ft lb(!) motor's full output too much. Though I think the Volt on an optimal drive might be able to get 50 miles of EV range.

 

[Tharkûn]

Just write it off, that's what rich people do

 

[Zerox]

So really the Volt ain't half bad as far as EV range goes with these plug in cars. No it can't stretch as far as a pure battery car like a Leaf, but it also isn't stranded once the battery depletes.

How do you jump-start a drained Leaf? Which battery do you hook the jumper cables to?

 

[JesasaurusRex]

How do you jump-start a drained Leaf? Which battery do you hook the jumper cables to?

At my old job, somebody tried to jump a 48v fork truck with their car...ill let you guess the outcome.

 

[jt2]

How do you jump-start a drained Leaf? Which battery do you hook the jumper cables to?

I'm surprised nobody has strapped a couple Honda generators to the back of one yet.

 

[Hawaiirider]

Another facet of the desire to increase efficiency is to reduce the meat-head's impact on ALL other road users - expect networked controls to be available in the future that slow vehicles to match traffic load and predictive braking to reduce collisions.

Laugh it up if you want, but the potential for energy savings is just too great - compared to the advances in propulsion systems and materials, getting lousy drivers to 'go with the flow' would yield large improvements.

Of course motorcycles won't participate, rednecks will claim that the Gub-ment is stealing their steering wheels and motorheads everywhere will shudder involuntarily while Rush's Red Barchetta plays on satellite radio.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

Another facet of the desire to increase efficiency is to reduce the meat-head's impact on ALL other road users - expect networked controls to be available in the future that slow vehicles to match traffic load and predictive braking to reduce collisions.

Laugh it up if you want, but the potential for energy savings is just too great - compared to the advances in propulsion systems and materials, getting lousy drivers to 'go with the flow' would yield large improvements.

Of course motorcycles won't participate, rednecks will claim that the Gub-ment is stealing their steering wheels and motorheads everywhere will shudder involuntarily while Rush's Red Barchetta plays on satellite radio.

remember "rolling blackouts" caused by nothing more than politicians trying to hide their mismanagement of power capability?

How do you get to work when your part of town is blacked out and you can't charge?

How does a networked drive system work when the network is down, like BART line problems?

That's just the predictable normal "issues" this state ALWAYS has with infrastructure. Before you look into the abuses taken already to provide or protect those citizens and servants more valuable than the rest of us.

did everyone forget all the police radio issues when the Prez was in town? You don't think a networked drive system (privately owned by a large corporation like Google) wouldn't "accidentally" suffer similar convenient failures?

I can save more fuel, traffic load and highway wear without making it easier for a very few to harm a great many.


http://www.laalmanac.com/immigration/im04a.htm

If only 10% are driving cars in this state, that's 260,000 vehicles removed. Any guesses on the amount of "greenhouse gasses" and fuel saved?

If saving the planet, getting rid of oil dependency is *really* the purpose of networked cars and single-source energy vehicles, instead of politics and transferring money from texan oil barons to California utility operators, this would be the easiest and cheapest place to start.