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A Lesson in HOG Economics

mrmarklin said:
AFAIK Porsche had nothing to do with the EVO.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1984-harley-davidson-softail-v2-evolution

In the Evolution engine, Harley-Davidson contracted the German firm, Mahle, to produce the pistons. ''The untold story is the cooperation we received from the unions,'' says John. After a 40 percent workforce reduction and a 10 percent pay cut across the board, the unions conceded to having the pistons and bearings made outside the company, in order to produce a better product and increase production.
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The Evo was a marriage of the Nova and the Shovelhead. The improved cylinder head fastening, cooling fin placement, the valve angle that allows for TDC lift without crashing, the crankcase vent not blowing on the ground, etc.
I have a bunch of Harley propaganda books that talk about the collaboration. I'll see if I can dig some of them up.

The Evo definitely helped bring Harley's reliability up, and it wasn't engineered with the shoestring budget that the new investors had. That whole transition was built on AMF dollars. Current HD brass like to gloss over that, because it's better to have a scapegoat for the garbage they produced in the 70's. Every "hero" needs an adversary.

The shift to exclusivity and status quo will be interesting to watch. I think the timing is horrible, but then again, boomers are the largest group of people who may have disposable income after this. What better way to inspire millennials to bootstrap themselves than to buy some loud ass America!
 
berth said:
How many of these would Harley sell if they kept the overall retro motif, and colors, and springer front end, and electrified it?
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eBike sales are likely to surpass bicycle sales this year or the next. Quarantine may have already done it so the potential market is huge. America is already doing really well between Trek and Specialized and if you want something a little retro there's this:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...go/café-moto-go-mens/p/24561/?colorCode=black

Not super retro, but i think it's a much better product. In genral these bicycle companies may see more of their revenue come from ebikes than bicycles pretty soon and they're taking it very seriously. Harley could've had Alta but for some reason pulled out of that deal after six months and killed the company. From what I can tell they were afraid that they might make TOO much money.
 
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what a fun thread, the comment about HD and cosplay, well you knew it would lead to this.

motorcycle-sailor-moon-photo-u1
 
mrmarklin said:
the unions conceded to having the pistons and bearings made outside the company, in order to produce a better product and increase production.
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I am very much a believer in unions, but there is so much facepalm in that sentence. Its like they distilled the entire failure of American Unions and manufacturing into one sentence.
 
Harley isn't friendly to young riders. The 883 Sportster is an OK bike, but the rider culture wasn't as open to riders on smaller bikes without pricey chrome and leather add-ons. Don't even mention all the necessary personal Harley style garments and accoutrements. For the money, you could get a Shadow with more chrome, ABS, more colors, just more refinement. It's a turn off for a kid who can only afford a $7K bike.
 
no kid can afford a 7k bike. My first two bikes were $1600 and $2000. A gs750es and a CB900c. the weight was cumbersome but I managed. We really need brands like Bajaj and Italika to come over. Theyve got a bunch of 200cc bikes for under 2k. In mexico you can buy them on amazon, with amazon financing, and amazon will ship it to your door.

thats what we need. Triumph, Harley, and even Honda are all too upmarket nowadays and will continue to move upmarket as the percentage of motorcyclists strinks.

And if we could convince Chicho Lorenzo to franchise his motorcycle gym in the states, where people could drop in and practice skills, that would be ideal.
 
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SVsick50 said:
Hence why I can ride a very neato 1987 Honda VF700C today with a motor that really surprises me.
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:thumbup

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pretty sure when The Lone Biker of the Apocalypse rides,
he rides a Honda Magna ... great bikes, great engine ... :ride:party
 
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Bumpits said:
no kid can afford a 7k bike. My first two bikes were $1600 and $2000. A gs750es and a CB900c. the weight was cumbersome but I managed. We really need brands like Bajaj and Italika to come over. Theyve got a bunch of 200cc bikes for under 2k. In mexico you can buy them on amazon, with amazon financing, and amazon will ship it to your door.

thats what we need. Triumph, Harley, and even Honda are all too upmarket nowadays and will continue to move upmarket as the percentage of motorcyclists strinks.

And if we could convince Chicho Lorenzo to franchise his motorcycle gym in the states, where people could drop in and practice skills, that would be ideal.
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A lot of kids can afford an upside down loan.
 
It's still not doable for most young people. Auto loan debt in the us has exploded yet auto sales has declined.
 
Look at the parking lot of pretty much every high school: lots of Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, jacked up trucks, etc. - not very many old clunkers and junkers like we used to have back in the '60s...
 
Alan_Hepburn said:
Look at the parking lot of pretty much every high school: lots of Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, jacked up trucks, etc. - not very many old clunkers and junkers like we used to have back in the '60s...
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Says the resident of a county with media household annual income of $125,000--double the US median.
 
SFMCjohn said:
:thumbup

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pretty sure when The Lone Biker of the Apocalypse rides,
he rides a Honda Magna ... great bikes, great engine ... :ride:party
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Haha! Yes... it was actually a VT500 Shadow. Makes me think if movie people BITD used smaller bikes to make actors look bigger.
 
Snaggy said:
Harley isn't friendly to young riders. The 883 Sportster is an OK bike, but the rider culture wasn't as open to riders on smaller bikes without pricey chrome and leather add-ons. Don't even mention all the necessary personal Harley style garments and accoutrements. For the money, you could get a Shadow with more chrome, ABS, more colors, just more refinement. It's a turn off for a kid who can only afford a $7K bike.
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Why target the bottom? HD isn't a massive-scale scooter manufacturer.

The only actual comparable brands to HD are Triumph and KTM. They only make motorcycles, they aren't part of a larger conglomerate. HD sales are more than both those companies combined.

But hipster doofus in the OP video sure can armchair-CEO like a mothafucka.
 
aminalmutha said:
Why target the bottom? HD isn't a massive-scale scooter manufacturer.

The only actual comparable brands to HD are Triumph and KTM. They only make motorcycles, they aren't part of a larger conglomerate. HD sales are more than both those companies combined.

But hipster doofus in the OP video sure can armchair-CEO like a mothafucka.
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If being a bigger corporation is such an unfair advantage, to the point that you dont even want the really big corporations mentioned in the same debate as harley davidson, then why is KTM killing harley in sales growth?Because they're selling boat loads of smaller vehicles to demanding markets.
 
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Bumpits said:
If being a bigger corporation is such an unfair advantage, to the point that you dont even want the really big corporations mentioned in the same debate as harley davidson, then why is KTM killing harley in sales growth?Because they're selling boat loads of smaller vehicles to demanding markets.
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:thumbup

would say it's KTM's dedication to their various racing programs, myself ... :party

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:party
 
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