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Accident scene management Part 1 and 2 (long)

good call,skorp.even though this is from a yr. ago it still applies
today and beyond.....
 
Long but neccesary

If an accident does happen, DO NOT STOP!!!!

ok....sounds good but what about three paragraphs later.....

The first thing you need to do when arriving on an accident scene is to stop,...................

riiiiiiiiiiiightttttt
 
ScorpioVI said:


Mods, can we sticky for the next couple of months at least? It's carnage season after all.
Click to expand...

DONE :banana

zodiac,
wtf are you talking about :wtf
 
WOW.. My first sticky and it was something I posted from over 1 year ago... HAHA

Zodiac, I saw that too on there... What I think they mean is do not stop in the middle of the road.. Go past and park your bike on the side of the road..

many times guys are trying to help and stop right there in the middle of the road. 2 years ago when a guy on a motorcycle went wide on 9 and came into our lane and hit my friend hector. Guys were stopping thre bikes in the middle of the road to help. Other riders were screaming around the corner and almost hitting the bikes parked in the middle of the road....
 
Try Turnworking.....

....that way you'll be almost guaranteed to get first-hand accident management training *and* we could use the help (especially at 'remote' tracks like Thunderhill and Buttonwillow).

I understand that the track is a more controlled environment than the street, but we emphasize the following Priorities after an on-track incident:
1. First Priority: Look after yourself and fellow-workers. If you get hurt you can't help anyone else - and its now that much harder for everyone else.
This translates into the: 'dont fixate, ride past the crash, then stop safely' advice for the street.
2. Second Priority: The riders still racing. Get a flag out - if we can keep a 1-bike crash from escalating everyone's happier.
This translates into: 'Get someone up/down road to slow/warn others'.
3. Third Priority: The Rider(s) who crashed....

I also took the Doc Wong CPR class (as did at least 3 other AFM turnworkers that I know of) but we're not allowed to do medical stuff to riders.
However, some of the areas at THill and BW are a *long* way from help, so if it came down to a lifesaving situation, I'd break the rules.

AFM 25W
 
Drgkne-

Great re-post :) Very well put- I posted something similar- just not as detailed a year or so bk... and the part;

"16) Thank yous

A good number of the ambulance people are volunteers. Officers often get little or no recognition for helping out on the scene. It will cheer all of them up to no end to receive some kind of thanks for their help.

Any of the following are appropriate:
1. cards
2. in newspaper
3. in person
"

Yes we appreciate them- I even went as far as picking up a buddy from the hospital after a crash and told him we have to bring the paramedics Krispy Kremes..." :)
 
I thought this was a great post. Alot of people get caught up in the moment when something tragic happens like a rider down. I have been working in the EMS system for 14yrs now and some of the most helpful people I have worked with on accident scenes are fellow riders I think simply because there is such a bond. I always tell as many people as I can to attend a First aid class and a CPR class if at all possible, it's cheap and worth it in the long run. Once again great post.
 
Very good read. The order of a few things werent exactly the way I would do it, but that is trivial. Advanced first aid and CPR are really easy to get folks, and offer additional legal protection if you ever have to help a fallen rider out. I recommend it to everyone.

Call your local Red Cross. It will not take too much time and you will not have to travel very far. At most it is a minor inconvenience to you, and could save someones life.
 
I agree also that some of the order could be better. Good post. Getting training like Doc Wong Cpr and First Aid class is a great start. I took it in May and the nurse teaching the class was Gary J wife. How cool is that? I've been the first rider to too many accident than I would liked and the first important thing I believe is the Control of the Accident Area,( i.e. traffic). Too many times has a car or another motorcyclist almost escalate the accident from worst to "OH My God this isn't happening!"
 
Great post!!!!!

I'd like to add: The first thing you should do when arriving at the scene of an accident is to "Secure the Scene."

This means to ensure that traffic coming from either direction will not crash into the accident scene and the various persons involved there.

For example a few years ago there was an accident on Stage Road, where a rider crashed and there were several other riders on the scene.

No one secured the scene, ie made sure oncoming traffic was warned of the accident scene.

A CHP patrol car was dispatched to the scene, he was in quite a hurry as he careened around the corners at a pretty good clip. When he got to the scene, it was around a blind corner. He rounded the blind corner, just about flying into the crowd, locking brakes, skidding to a halt just nearly missing the crowd that was beginning to disperse in panic.

That was a close one.

So one rider down is bad enough, two, three or more injured unnecessarily is worse.

Secure the scene first. Yes, before going to the aid of your friend.

Check out my schedule for future Doc Wong First Aid/CPR classes for Motorcyclists at:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63063

Also Rider Skills and Survival Day is August 29, 2004 where we take over the Alice's Resturant 4 Corners area!

Check that out at:

http://www.docwong.com/Riderday/Riderday.htm

Do well all!

Doc Wong
 
I was able to do the doc wong CPR certification with special emphasis on motorcycles and downed rider scenarios. There was a lot of great info, but I'll try to remember some of the best stuff:

-First thing is to control the traffic. If you've got flares, use them. Get a bike or bikes and park them in the middle of the lane where cars have time to see them. So if there's a downed bike in the middle of a curve, get around the curve to where there's some straight line visibility and leave a person, bike, flare or something to slow oncoming traffic. This is the FIRST thing you do, and you do it in both directions. Nothing worse than having a sports car in the middle of a four wheel drift interupt a crash scene.

-Say a downed rider critically needs to be moved. He's not breathing and is off the road in a bad / non flat location, or is in the middle of heavy traffic, etc. He's wearing a helmet, and you're not sure about neck / spine injuries. Also, you've had CPR training and are willing to risk the liability in moving him... as gently as possible, straighten the head/helmet and standing with your feet facing his shoulders, gather a handfull of his/her jacket somewhere between the armpit and shoulder area in each hand, and with his/her helmet cradled between your forearms, drag the downed rider to a safe and level area (where you can start CPR if needed). The idea is to risk further spinal damage only if there is a more serious problem (not breathing halfway down a cliff, truck going to run him over, etc).

-Once you've got traffic under control, downed rider in a safe level location, you've got to decide whether to start CPR. The part I think I was most surprised about is this: if you start CPR, you don't stop until relieved. This can take a half hour or more of serious work, and if they need CPR they're in serious trouble and probably won't make it anyway. It will be exhausting, and if you're out of shape, you may not be able to keep it up very long. So you have to decide. Don't discount the liability issue either: if you don't have a choice and have to act to save a life, you'll probably be allright legally, but if your actions could possibly have severed someone's spinal cord, you could also be shelling out serious bucks to a lawyer in consequence.

Don't forget about AIDS and bleeding mouths either. After the course I took, I carry a mouth damm in a plastic case (about $8 from Galls.com) for that purpose. It's like the plastic cup shape you see go over peoples mouths when they're given oxygen, with a little valve that keeps any blood from getting to you. (Cops carry these as well, and if you have to move your well marked plastic case from under your seat to get your registration, the cop will see it and it may influence his decision to give you a ticket. Or so I was told...)

-If they don't have a pulse or aren't breathing, or both, and you've decided to perform CPR, you don't have a choice - you have to remove the helmet. You'll want the help of at least two other people (ideally) for this. You'll probably want to kneel at the downed rider's head and very gently undo the chin strap. It's a good idea to keep the chin tilted back a bit. Gently get your hands and fingers supporting the head, probably with some fingers up inside the helmet. Direct your first helper to do one thing only: hold the two chin strap sections away from the head, pulling a little to open the helmet more. Your second helper will slowly wiggle the helmet off while you keep the head and neck as inline as possible. Once it's off, you'll need to get the jacket open or off, and any other layers as well. For this you carry EMT scissors (also a few bucks at Galls or any medical supply house), and you don't hesitate in cutting away clothes. If their life is ticking away, don't worry about a nice sweater, etc as they may have arm injuries and in any case, removing a top without twisting the spine is next to impossible.

-Now you're in regular CPR territory. 11 compressions to 2 breaths (if I remember that right, pretty sure...). I also bought a package of triangular bandages (40x40x56") and keep a few on the bike. Good for slings, pressure compresses, and any padding or bandage needs. Also don't forget that often during CPR, the unconscious person will vomit and, if you do your compressions right, you may crack the sternum or some ribs. Helps to be ready for such things.
 
With all due respect and I know you have the best intentions;

I find it irresponsible to post First-Aid "instructions". For anyone to think "I read on BARF" (or anywhere) how to XXX"- is wrong, just wrong. There is simply no substitute for taking a bona fide class and getting certificated.

So if the inability to help seems like it might be frustrating for you- go sign up; they are available in every community!
 
Can I just add.


- if it's at all possible, get any oil or spily fluids off the road.

Even just dusting with dry dirt and sweeping with twigs really helps keep the road safe for others.
 
NorCalBusa said:
I find it irresponsible to post First-Aid "instructions". For anyone to think "I read on BARF" (or anywhere) how to XXX"- is wrong, just wrong. There is simply no substitute for taking a bona fide class and getting certificated.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree. My post was more intended for those that had taken CPR, but might be curious as to what some of the extra info was in the 'for motorcyclists' doc wong class.

Good tip too on getting sand or dirt on oil left on the road.
 
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