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Are open face helmets stupid?

Sounds like a great endorsement of cats :twofinger

Sure, maybe house cats, but me thinks a big enough cat under tread would cause a headache as well... Depends on if you saw it in time and didn't do anything yourself to upset the bike... :wtf
:rofl
 
Instincts only work when your body knows what is happening anyway. In each of my crashes, had I been aware I was about to crash, I wouldn't have :p

True. I was more addressing his comment about actually falling.
 
Putting your hands out in a fall is instinctive and has absolutely nothing to do with what's on your head. You trip, you put your hands out... you don't think about it, your body does it all on its own.
This is why wearing good quality gloves is so crucial.
You're on a topic I know something about. Reaching with hands in a fall is influenced by the circumstances, it's not automatic. I did a trip and fall a few days ago, dragging a toe on a top step. I pulled my hands and knees towards my chest and rolled, 'instinctively' (that cost me a half dozen micro bruises, but probably avoided a broken wrist). If your face is protected, and depending on how much time you have, and how familiar you are with what's happening, you'll try to prioritize to minimize the damages. May be you'll pull your hands in. I seem to leave my hands on the grips in falls, which might be influenced by the brush guards (why don't they have those on all bikes?).

I agree that gloves are a necessity on a motorcycle but have no illusions about getting much protection if they are on the pavement for long at high speed, unless you get lucky and fall on pavement with a well polished microtexture. Anything on your palms tough enough to stand up to fast pavement will interfere with holding the grips.
 
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Anything on your palms tough enough to stand up to high speed pavement will interfere with holding the grips.
No. Any decent motorcycle gloves serve both purposes quite well. That's what they're designed for.
 
No. Any decent motorcycle gloves serve both purposes quite well. That's what they're designed for.
A common home bench grinder turning at 3250 rpm with a 6" wheel has a surface speed of 60 mph. Put any kind of motorcycle glove fabric on that you like and watch what happens. A paved road is pretty much a gigantic bench grinder.
 
I prefer full face protection just in case. You can do things to prevent fog and such but not as easy to prevent a face plant if it were to happen with a open face helmet.

I agree... I don't even ride with my shield up much let alone to roll around with a half face helmet. Full face seems to be safer in terms of protection.
 
A common home bench grinder turning at 3250 rpm with a 6" wheel has a surface speed of 60 mph. Put any kind of motorcycle glove fabric on that you like and watch what happens. A paved road is pretty much a gigantic bench grinder.
Yet plenty of people-- racers for instance-- have crashed without suffering a single square inch of road rash to their hands or elsewhere, because their gear works. Often leather takes so little damage it's still usable after multiple hits.

If I recall correctly, you were riding with a pair of work gloves? Like the regular deerhide yard gloves people use for chopping wood? Those aren't even precurved so the leather is bunching under your fingers when they wrap around the grips. They also tend to fit pretty loose, with fat fingers, while a good pair of moto gloves fits pretty snug all over. A nice pair of 'roo motorcycle gloves would be far better suited for feeling the grips of a bike, and tougher too.
 
a story from another forum

One of my riding club members got clipped by a goddam taxi that just took over his lane without looking, and he was pushed out of his lane into the curb, where he went sailing onto the sidewalk (city street). He would be just fine (his bike is a write-off), except that he was wearing NOTHING except a stupid half-helmet.

Why are these so-called "helmets" legal, or considered "protection"? I'd say it's even worse than no helmet, since the rider thinks they have some protection, or are in compliance with a helmet law?

My friend's face hit a tree, and basically, every part of his face got crushed into the shape of the helmet. I can't even look at him for more than a second, and I've got a very strong stomach for these things and as a premed/human physiology major have dissected everything under the sun including cadavers.

They say they think they'll be able to start reconstructing the bones under his face after at least a month to allow the swelling to go down. With no jaw to speak of, he isn't talking, but his eyes are intact.

it was a choice he made - I never, ever wear anything but a full-face track-ready helmet. But it's just not protective, unless you can make sure only the back of your head hits anything in a crash??

http://f800riders.org/forum/showthread.php/53334-a-half-helmet-isn-t-f*-king-protection!
 
I seem to leave my hands on the grips in falls, which might be influenced by the brush guards (why don't they have those on all bikes?).

Because not all riders ride through brush. As crash protection, brush guards are a poor strategy. They may help at very low speeds, but if I'm falling off at higher speed, I don't want to be anywhere near the bike. I let go of it and allow my higher coefficient of friction to separate me from it.

The forces of a high speed crash are enormous and the rider (crasher) may have very little say in the matter of where his hands end up. The most reliable face protection is a full face helmet.
 
Because not all riders ride through brush. As crash protection, brush guards are a poor strategy. They may help at very low speeds, but if I'm falling off at higher speed, I don't want to be anywhere near the bike. I let go of it and allow my higher coefficient of friction to separate me from it.
I'm fond of my brush guards because they saved some fingers in an initial impact with raised concrete. Nothing else could have done that. Your reference to long fast slides sound like track experiences. I'm certain a lot of thought goes into the choice of aggregate and how the surface is finished for motorcycle tracks, to minimize the consequences of crashes but keep traction in wet weather. If you were to ask the track manager what grade of aggregate was used in the paving I bet he could tell you.

Yet plenty of people-- racers for instance-- have crashed without suffering a single square inch of road rash to their hands or elsewhere, because their gear works. Often leather takes so little damage it's still usable after multiple hits.
I've heard amazing stories of long long slides with no harm to anything and other stories of those fancy leather suits being turned in to cheese casserole. There are a lot of things that decide how things turn out.
If I recall correctly, you were riding with a pair of work gloves? Like the regular deerhide yard gloves people use for chopping wood? Those aren't even precurved so the leather is bunching under your fingers when they wrap around the grips. They also tend to fit pretty loose, with fat fingers, while a good pair of moto gloves fits pretty snug all over. A nice pair of 'roo motorcycle gloves would be far better suited for feeling the grips of a bike, and tougher too.
Take a look at dirt riding gloves sometime, they are a joke. My gloves aren't deer hide, that would be expensive, it's split cowhide and not the good stuff either. I use work gloves partly because I'm often riding to a work site to do some actual work. For my speeds and terrain that type of glove is more than adequate, and certainly no worse than dirt bike gloves.

It's worth saying again, protective gear is interactive. The protection on one part of your body helps protect other parts. But no protective gear will make any difference if you smack something hard enough.
 
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A common home bench grinder turning at 3250 rpm with a 6" wheel has a surface speed of 60 mph. Put any kind of motorcycle glove fabric on that you like and watch what happens. A paved road is pretty much a gigantic bench grinder.

The better analogy would be to flick the glove against the grinding wheel. In most crashes, prolonged glove contact with the ground is pretty rare. Among the many gloves I have crash tested at over 100 mph, I have yet to experience a failure.
 
I've heard amazing stories of long long slides with no harm to anything and other stories of those fancy leather suits being turned in to cheese casserole. There are a lot of things that decide how things turn out.Take a look at dirt riding gloves sometime, they are a joke. My gloves aren't deer hide, that would be expensive, it's split cowhide and not the good stuff either. I use work gloves partly because I'm often riding to a work site to do some actual work. For my speeds and terrain that type of glove is more than adequate, and certainly no worse than dirt bike gloves.
I have never heard of such things myself. I've seen mentions of shoddily made leathers busting seams, but never the leather itself actually shredding through entirely due to abrasion.

Some dirt gloves are pretty lame, sure, just some flimsy fabric and plastic bits. But a good pair of moto gloves is another animal.

The better analogy would be to flick the glove against the grinding wheel. In most crashes, prolonged glove contact with the ground is pretty rare. Among the many gloves I have crash tested at over 100 mph, I have yet to experience a failure.
And asphalt is a different surface than the ones designed for a grinder.
 
I have never heard of such things myself. I've seen mentions of shoddily made leathers busting seams, but never the leather itself actually shredding through entirely due to abrasion.

Some dirt gloves are pretty lame, sure, just some flimsy fabric and plastic bits. But a good pair of moto gloves is another animal.

And asphalt is a different surface than the ones designed for a grinder.
And race track surfaces may be a lot different from road paving, and tracks have big clear grassy areas to slide on to and may be no lamp posts or curbs or soccor moms in SUVs. I'm imaging that race suits have hard plastic parts in the most likely wear areas and those are going to be effective against pavement. How long leather lasts against pavement is going to have a lot to with the microtexture of the surface. With asphalt that's determined by the type of aggregate and how the surface is finished. Race tracks may be much friendier to leather than a lot of public roads.
 
Thoughts while reading...

Half helmet is to full face, as motorcycle is to car.

I'll make quick trips off the bike in my flip helmet, but not into a bank. Don't think that would be wise.

Does anyone have real crash data that would back up those claims that flip-face helmets are flimsy?

I ride a bicycle at speeds in excess of my around town jaunts. Obviously, I'm not geared up. Wear what is appropriate to YOUR sense of risk management.

Heck, there's people that would point out the convertible we drive and say, "No roll bar!"
 
Soccer moms in SUVs are not particularly abrasive. Heh. So to speak.

People on public roads crash without road rash pretty often too. If leather was so ineffective, why would we be using it?
 
So OP, did you get a run of the mill full face street helmet or one of the "dual-sport" larger openings? I have the same sense of liking the openness and did not like the claustrophobic feeling in most full face, but am real happy with my Arai XD dual sport style. Was using a moto-cross style for awhile but do like the face shield option.
 
To protect my Charles Bronson good looks, I ALWAYS wear a full helmet. ;)

CharlesBronson%20%20_orig.jpg
 
Give it a try. While carrying a backpack and a 24x36 drawing board satchel. With long hair and etymotics carefully tucked under the helmet. Helmet juggling can be fun. For about 30 seconds. :|

If you connect the strap, it is very easy to carry around by the strap rather then holding it like a pumpkin.

If I'm going on some big shopping spree for items that would be probably be too big to carry on a bike anyway, I would leave the helmet locked to the bike.

I was mainly speaking to those who wear their helmet into the Kwicky Mart to buy chips. No comment on what a person carrying a 24x36 whatever and a backpack, while walking around a store wearing a helmet, looks like.
 
So OP, did you get a run of the mill full face street helmet or one of the "dual-sport" larger openings? I have the same sense of liking the openness and did not like the claustrophobic feeling in most full face, but am real happy with my Arai XD dual sport style. Was using a moto-cross style for awhile but do like the face shield option.

The Suomy Apex is a racing style helmet.

645379103698f36db085c0d12b0fdd5d_refined.jpg
 
If you connect the strap, it is very easy to carry around by the strap rather then holding it like a pumpkin.

If I'm going on some big shopping spree for items that would be probably be too big to carry on a bike anyway, I would leave the helmet locked to the bike.

I was mainly speaking to those who wear their helmet into the Kwicky Mart to buy chips. No comment on what a person carrying a 24x36 whatever and a backpack, while walking around a store wearing a helmet, looks like.
Being able to use both hands makes a world of difference, even when you're just buying a bag of chips. My head is by far the most comfortable, handy place to carry my helmet. I'm not comfortable leaving it in the helmet lock most of the time, since I'm usually in the middle of the city with tons of people around. Also, if I'm carrying my helmet by the strap, I need to avoid carrying it on the side where my keys hang on my belt so it doesn't get scratched. Having a flip-face has really made my day to day life significantly more convenient. I mean, that's just me of course.

An example-- on an average day going to work, even if I don't take my backpack, I gotta dig for meter change to start. I have handy belt pockets for this, so I don't have to juggle a wallet. Then sometimes I get some mexican food for lunch later, gotta balance that box so it doesn't spill, then go next door for a soda, gotta get into my pockets for cash of course, then carry these items to the store where I work... AND THEN, while carrying stuff... I have to pull out my keys to open the door to the store. If I just leave the helmet on my head for this 5-10min process, there's a lot less cussing involved.

I could really use a top box though, if I could just ditch the helmet there that would be awesome!
 
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