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bitcoins

jiffy said:
It seems like a nod from the investing world which is, if it works as described. It gives peace of mind to would be investors.
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It's nothing more than one guys and his empoyees opinion of various crytpo, anyone claiming to be able to rate something with such a minimal track record is deluding themselves. He may be using some system and lots of fancy computers, but garbage in, garbage out.

The major rating agencies couldn't even manage to rate large publicly traded companies in an effective way pre-2008.
 
Climber said:
A perpetual money machine costs a lot to keep running.....who'd have thunk it? :laughing

It is rather idiotic that it takes so much energy to perpetuate these bitcoins (used as generic, not specific)...
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I wouldn't be surprised if the energy requirement per user was comparable to regular banking. BTC is avoid the power requirements of banks, atms, call centers, etc. eventually, it would need some of that to be a real currency. but there seems to be some efficiency in its decentralization.

also, mining is finite and will stop soon enough. its power use will probably drop significantly after that. so even if BTC is using more power per user now, the avg might be way lower after a year without mining.
 
afm199 said:
Once upon a time, Tulips in Holland had tremendous value, because people were growing Tulips and the price rose and there was a demand.:laughing
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Once upon a time a guy and his friend started building computers in their garage. IBM said that's dumb no one will use a computer at home.


We went over this already but as a reminder here is a link, tulip mania was not what people think or refer to in history.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-tulip-fever-180964915/
 
jiffy said:
Once upon a time a guy and his friend started building computers in their garage. IBM said that's dumb no one will use a computer at home.


We went over this already but as a reminder here is a link, tulip mania was not what people think or refer to in history.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-tulip-fever-180964915/
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Apple stock was a fantastic investment, however an Apple IIe sure wasn't. Buying crytpo currency isn't anything like buying ownership in a company. Crytpo may still be a good investment, but internet stocks are a lousy analogue.

(an Apple I would have gotten you a pretty good return though)
 
bpw said:
Apple stock was a fantastic investment, however an Apple IIe sure wasn't. Buying crytpo currency isn't anything like buying ownership in a company. Crytpo may still be a good investment, but internet stocks are a lousy analogue.

(an Apple I would have gotten you a pretty good return though)
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You say internet stocks are a lousy analogy but many compare the internet bust to crypto in this thread and elsewhere.

Apple stock in 2002 went to $7, many sold when they thought Apple was headed to $0. Very few could have known about a device called the iPod on the horizon.

After Mt. Gox many sold Bitcoin at $200 because it was a lousy investment. Then Bitcoin hit $20,000 and many said whoa I could have been a millionaire, but I sold.
 
jiffy said:
You say internet stocks are a lousy analogy but many compare the internet bust to crypto in this thread and elsewhere.

Apple stock in 2002 went to $7, many sold when they thought Apple was headed to $0. Very few could have known about a device called the iPod on the horizon.

After Mt. Gox many sold Bitcoin at $200 because it was a lousy investment. Then Bitcoin hit $20,000 and many said whoa I could have been a millionaire, but I sold.
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Internet stocks are a lousy analogue because buying "currency" is nothing like buying stock in a company.

It's the difference between buying XRP (apple IIE) and having stock in Ripple (apple stock). Entirely possible for Ripple to become hugely valuable while XRP is worthless.

I am not arguing how good of an investment crypto may or may not be, just that comparing it to stocks is silly.
 
Also, if you bought Apple stock in 1980 and held it until today it returned 17% a year or 3,800% total (~39x). Good numbers, but not even in the same league as the price increases cryto coins have seen in just a few months. We are talking orders of magnitude difference in how quickly price went up. If you bought BTC in 2010 for $.01 it has done 1,500,000x

Not to mention that between 1980 and today Apple went from a tiny company to one of the largest in the world (and literally changed the world). What is different about BTC today than a year ago other than price increase due to demand?
 
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bpw said:
Also, if you bought Apple stock in 1980 and held it until today it returned 17% a year or 3,800% total (~39x). Good numbers, but not even in the same league as the price increases cryto coins have seen in just a few months. We are talking orders of magnitude difference in how quickly price went up. If you bought BTC in 2010 for $.01 it has done 1,500,000x

Not to mention that between 1980 and today Apple went from a tiny company to one of the largest in the world (and literally changed the world). What is different about BTC today than a year ago other than price increase due to demand?
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Afm and others wants to compare crypto to Tulips and Internet stocks, housing bubbles, we went along with their analogies.

Companies, I don't think it's a stretch to call some cryptos a business. Ethereum, Neo, IOTA, VEchain, Stratis, etc. could be looked at as blockchain services. Those coins rise due to their accomplishments towards their goals. There are many "coins" that provide some type of service beyond currency, but you know this already since you clearly have researched the topic, but I'm unsure why you overlook that they provide a service or function.

Stocks they are not


Some of the use cases cryptos are developing could be world changing. Decentralized gambling is a hard push for some which could be interesting.

bpw said:
What is different about BTC today than a year ago other than price increase due to demand?
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Segwit2X, Lightning Network, and a much more limited supply.
 
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They're like stocks. Problem is people associate the word "stock" with something more specific(i.e. blue chip). In reality the word has no connotation. If something is like a shitty stock, it's still like a stock.
 
jiffy said:
Companies, I don't think it's a stretch to call some cryptos a business. Ethereum, Neo, IOTA, VEchain, Stratis, etc. could be looked at as blockchain services. Those coins rise due to their accomplishments towards their goals. There are many "coins" that provide some type of service beyond currency, but you know this already since you clearly have researched the topic, but I'm unsure why you overlook that they provide a service or function.
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I'm not sure there is any reason to think the coins will track the fortunes of the parent company. The example I am most aware of is XRP. Ripple is doing a good job of selling it's blockchain tech to banks but most of those banks aren't using the currency.

Even the business models (that I am aware of) that require the coin being used don't require the coin to have any particular value. The coins just have to exist and be somewhat liquid.
 
byke said:
They're like stocks. Problem is people associate the word "stock" with something more specific(i.e. blue chip). In reality the word has no connotation. If something is like a shitty stock, it's still like a stock.
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A stock is an ownership share in a company. The closest thing we could compare crypto to is currency or commodities markets.
 
For sure it's definitely *not* a stock, but in practice, as in how people interact with it and how its value is derived from emotional whims, it's very much like a stock(imo).
 
Back when Bitcoin was at $19,000 I called a top and said I expected a downward trend. So far I was correct.

One of the biggest bitcoin fans here said I was wrong and that it's just going to be a rocket. Buy more.

Then he admitted buying and SELLING in the $9000 to $11,000 range. Where's the "Buy More?"

Good luck boys, this one is completely emotion driven, hope nobody gets caught out.
 
afm199 said:
Back when Bitcoin was at $19,000 I called a top and said I expected a downward trend. So far I was correct.

One of the biggest bitcoin fans here said I was wrong and that it's just going to be a rocket. Buy more.

Then he admitted buying and SELLING in the $9000 to $11,000 range. Where's the "Buy More?"

Good luck boys, this one is completely emotion driven, hope nobody gets caught out.
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shots fired! To be fair, no one knows the future of crypto. See you in the stock market thread. :thumbup
 
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