Brake checking - why?

[Bay Arean]

Or: "Being in this metal cage allows me to do things I'd be too pussy to do IRL"

We came back from Trinity Cty last Saturday afternoon and I found myself once again on the northern part of 1-5 where, in the two lanes available, it's quite easy to get stuck behind a truck if you don't really calculate your position and drive over the posted speed limit by a healthy margin..

In a few cases, I did end up merging over a bit closer than I normally ever would. There were some very aggro types in that scenario so (and you can ask Ms. BA) I was acting out what I imagined they were saying.

"How DARE you even THINK to get in front of ME so now I am going to ride your ass MERCILESSLY until you DISAPPEAR [or just clear the slow vehicle and get back over], you shit-consuming, evil, rotten, miserable, SCUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I CAN not even slow for a moment, the road is MINE, MINE, MINE I tell ya!!!!!"

Problem is, on that road, it just happens a lot. So yeah, people were definitely practicing the car as weaponized extension of "my very rough-tough-creampuff identity." I notice people do that thing where they swerve over to make sure you can't pass them and to this day, I think the lady who hit me on my motorcyle with her car was "editing" my laneshare, but can't prove it.

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

it is interesting how the people who seem to be at fault are those who are reacting to aggression. not the aggression itself. the reaction to it. as if tailgating is perfectly acceptable. as if cutting into the slow lane to pass in heavy traffic and then cut back over is acceptable behavior.

not surprising. just interesting.

 

[Bay Arean]

it is interesting how the people who seem to be at fault are those who are reacting to aggression. not the aggression itself. the reaction to it. as if tailgating is perfectly acceptable. as if cutting into the slow lane to pass in heavy traffic and then cut back over is acceptable behavior.

not surprising. just interesting.

I keep wondering how they learned to drive. I had a kid who just tailgated me all the way from El Sob to Orinda even though I was going 10 to 15 over and there was a car in front of me the whole time so even if I wanted to grant him a wish of speeding up even more, I couldn't.. It was nuts. It's like they have some need to be attached to your ass or something, like they are really nearsighted and just want to keep your rear end in focus because they cant see any farther. Hardcore tailgaters seem to just be on autopilot, its the way they do things....

 

[Kurosaki]

Lot of driving habits that seem absurd are a product of the driving environment where you learned. Also creates some skills you wouldn't otherwise have. I have bay area friends who drive like nutters but parallel park like a motherfucker. Much better than me.

Friends from out of state might think the way I'm driving is nuts and vice versa if they're driving me.

Not giving any pass to chronic tailgaters though. fuck 'em. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Joebar4000]

Pull your handbrake up one click. The brake lights stay on without engaging brakes. Then randomly accelerate and decelerate. Flip them off in the mirror. They’ll probably shoot at you or ram you so you win.

Even better, in a stick shift (if it'll let you, many won't) is to push the clutch ALL the way down, and put it in reverse, and watch how quickly they get off your ass...

 

[Joebar4000]

I don't see it that way at all. While super annoying AND if you have to stop quickly, they're certainly gonna hit you, but it's gonna be from a very close distance and a very small speed delta. I'd rather that than someone be not paying attention and smash into me with a 50 MPH speed difference. Those hits hurt...the ones where they're already on your bumper aren't as bad.

I liked Jonah (Perez)'s idea - remove the seatbelts of convicted tailgaters.
And put a 6" spike on top of the airbag in the middle of the steering wheel. Sooner or later, the problem is solved

 

[Reli]

Since the odds that a tailgater would hit you are extremely low, I can't help but wonder why there's so much hate about it. Perhaps some of you have a self-esteem issue, making you feel that the tailgater is "intimidating" you?

Also, the problem with allowing more "cushion space" is that, in busy traffic, someone else inevitably fills it. Every time. Drive the 2-lane section of I-5 that BA referred to and see what happens. If you don't "tailgate" (which is a dumb and totally subjective word IMO), you'll just get taken advantage of, over and over again. No thanks.

 

[Climber]

I don't see it that way at all. While super annoying AND if you have to stop quickly, they're certainly gonna hit you, but it's gonna be from a very close distance and a very small speed delta. I'd rather that than someone be not paying attention and smash into me with a 50 MPH speed difference. Those hits hurt...the ones where they're already on your bumper aren't as bad.

I understand that you're not an engineer, so it may seem small to you, but if their vehicle is as big or bigger (usually the case) than yours and a vehicle pulls out in front of you and you pile-drive into them with the mass of the car driving yours into theirs, then the dynamics can be very bad for you and your car.

I do agree about inattentive drivers, but that is a whole other discussion.

 

[rsrider]

My next post on a slow day will be about the death stare...

even when you've done absolutely nothing, except obey the traffic laws............

 

[Climber]

Since the odds that a tailgater would hit you are extremely low, I can't help but wonder why there's so much hate about it. Perhaps some of you have a self-esteem issue, making you feel that the tailgater is "intimidating" you?

Also, the problem with allowing more "cushion space" is that, in busy traffic, someone else inevitably fills it. Every time. Drive the 2-lane section of I-5 that BA referred to and see what happens. If you don't "tailgate" (which is a dumb and totally subjective word IMO), you'll just get taken advantage of, over and over again. No thanks.

So, you have no problem if somebody walks up well into your personal space and talks to you, moving closer as you try to back away and have your personal space? Especially if they're doing it with body language that says they think they're the alpha male and you're their bitch?

It's not 'insecurity', it more 'show some fucking respect'. You're trying to characterize it as whining when it's really asserting.

 

[Holeshot]

I liked Jonah (Perez)'s idea - remove the seatbelts of convicted tailgaters.
And put a 6" spike on top of the airbag in the middle of the steering wheel. Sooner or later, the problem is solved

PERFECT! (We went karting last night, BTW. Tailgated the shit out people)

I understand that you're not an engineer, so it may seem small to you, but if their vehicle is as big or bigger (usually the case) than yours and a vehicle pulls out in front of you and you pile-drive into them with the mass of the car driving yours into theirs, then the dynamics can be very bad for you and your car.

I do agree about inattentive drivers, but that is a whole other discussion.

Shitty, but I'd still prefer to be hit by something really close than something further away, where the speed delta is greater.

 

[Reli]

So, you have no problem if somebody walks up well into your personal space and talks to you, moving closer as you try to back away and have your personal space? Especially if they're doing it with body language that says they think they're the alpha male and you're their bitch?

It's not 'insecurity', it more 'show some fucking respect'. You're trying to characterize it as whining when it's really asserting.

Two different things. In your description there's a clear aggressor, i.e. someone who wants to intimidate you. But on the road, you're just assuming he's trying to do that.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

Lot of driving habits that seem absurd are a product of the driving environment where you learned. Also creates some skills you wouldn't otherwise have. I have bay area friends who drive like nutters but parallel park like a motherfucker. Much better than me.

Friends from out of state might think the way I'm driving is nuts and vice versa if they're driving me.

Not giving any pass to chronic tailgaters though. fuck 'em. Just thinking out loud.

I'm up in semi rural Washington right now, having a hard time not putting the hammer down and jamming by everyone.

Big wide open streets with no traffic, and a 30 MPH speed limit
You can to at least 50 no problem down these bastids.

 

[Xenophonii]

I have only brake checked once - it was in super heavy traffic and a big rig (without trailer) behind me was letting the gap between me and him widen and then he would floor it right up to my bumper. I guess he didn't like the 4-5 car length gap between me and the car in front. Dude, you're not getting to where you are going any sooner whether you're in front of me or behind me... Well, I finally had it and gave a little tap-a-roo as he came up and he had to hit his brakes fairly hard. He got the message and moved over to the next lane.

I figured that if he hit me, it would be at 10 mph and cost him his commercial license, etc. Fuck him, don't take your frustration at an impossible situation out on me.

When I drive in heavy traffic, I like to keep rolling unlike a shit ton of fools who floor it for 3 car lengths and have to slam their brakes to stop because they have no patience. Relax, keep the flow going because it isn't getting any better (highway 101 between Novato and Petaluma)... It's like merging, shit, just merge like you're supposed to, one car in front of you will make no difference on how fast you're going to get through the mess.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

My wife grew up here, so she doesn't like it when I tell her that California has the majority of the asshole drivers in the nation.

But it's true, I've driven in most other states and nowhere do you encounter that kind of asshole behavior as we see in the Bay Area and down around LA.

In every other state, when there is a sign showing a lane merge ahead, people have already merged over with over 1/4 mile to go, only in this state do you have the ASSHOLES who don't merge until the very last foot and often go in the breakdown lane to gain a few extra spots. They're too fucking ignorant to realize that the very behavior that they're practicing is causing over 75% of the backups in the first place. Simple Stupid!

I'm all for gentle merges,but moving over early to merge, and leaving like the 1/4 mile of space empty in front of you, is like the worst example possible. I concur with the Germany zipper post.

In fact, moving over early is a "hair similar" to a squatter of the left lane. Imagine two lanes. in both one and two there are cars B and C but car A moves in front of B in lane 1... but moves early. What that does look like? Oh, exactly like someone who just decided to squat in the left lane. It's a little bit of an extrapolated example, but early is related to squatting.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

Still don't think the BA is that bad

 

[250mL]

I understand that you're not an engineer, so it may seem small to you, but if their vehicle is as big or bigger (usually the case) than yours and a vehicle pulls out in front of you and you pile-drive into them with the mass of the car driving yours into theirs, then the dynamics can be very bad for you and your car.

I do agree about inattentive drivers, but that is a whole other discussion.

I love this shit. I have been declared a tailgater by enough passengers that I have come to accept it. Get the hell out of the lane and move over, it's that simple. I check my mirrors constantly, there's no reason you shouldn't be too. Drivers who blocking lanes, whether that started unintentionaly due to inattentiveness and not checking mirrors, then turning intentional because you take offense to my tailgating, make me slightly agitated.

You make an argument for needing time to react to situations without fear of being rear ended. The need for reaction time is largely due to changes in flow of traffic. If everyone flowed...that's slow drivers in the slow lane, medium in the middle lane, and fast in the fast lane, there would be little to react to. Wrong vehicle speeds in the intended lanes, that's unexpected, that requires reaction, that's the hazard.

I am not an engineer either, but if you're concerned about your safety and not having enough room to react and maneuver, brake checking a tailgater should not be employed. You are an engineer, are you also a Nascar watcher? Please tell me the typical result that occurs when two cars meet bumpers...which car usually spins out? The guy in front or the guy in back? Do you want to be that guy spinning out? Don't brake check! If we end up tapping bumpers, I will stick my foot into the fuel pedal in order to remain in control of my own vehicle as a self preservation method, what happens to you and your car is up to you...your self preservation skills obviously went out the window the moment you chose to brake check, so hang on for the ride.

Also, as you are an engineer, please explain to us P=MV and F=MA, within the context of two vehicles moving down a freeway at speed and then making contact in a bumper to bumper situation. As I understand it, a heavier vehicle will have more M, so it will have more P (momentum) than a lighter vehicle. However, momentum is meaningless (as far as inflicting injury) unless it acts upon something. The only way the large vehicle with lots of momentum can act on a small vehicle is if their rate of velocity changes (which is defined as A) such that one can impart its momentum onto the other. Even in a high speed bumper-to-bumper tailgating incident, there is little opportunity to have a large velocity rate change in such a short tailgating distance, therefore A is really small. This means the resulting F is also relatively small. What am I missing here?

Again, watching Nascar, vehicles in the train get tangled up all the time. Those that manage to play high speed bumper cars while in motion sliding down the track (i.e. small differences in velocity / small A) suffer mimimal damage. Those that hit walls or otherwise slow moving targets (i.e. large changes in velocity / large A) are the ones who suffer greatly.

 

[250mL]

In every other state, when there is a sign showing a lane merge ahead, people have already merged over with over 1/4 mile to go, only in this state do you have the ASSHOLES who don't merge until the very last foot and often go in the breakdown lane to gain a few extra spots. They're too fucking ignorant to realize that the very behavior that they're practicing is causing over 75% of the backups in the first place. Simple Stupid!

WTF? Congratulations, you completed the same zipper/merge move...albeit 1/4 mile too damn early. The same shit is happening in CA as other states...everyone is merging. There's just a disagreement on the timing of when it should take place. Who's to say 1/2 mile early is more appropriate than 1/4 mile early...??? The lines/cones in the lanes tell me both 1/2 and 1/4 mile merging is too early. Don't get butthurt because we're following the lines/cones. I do not condone crossing into the breakdown lane though, that is certainly reason to call one an AHole.

 

[Climber]

WTF? Congratulations, you completed the same zipper/merge move...albeit 1/4 mile too damn early. The same shit is happening in CA as other states...everyone is merging. There's just a disagreement on the timing of when it should take place. Who's to say 1/2 mile early is more appropriate than 1/4 mile early...??? The lines/cones in the lanes tell me both 1/2 and 1/4 mile merging is too early. Don't get butthurt because we're following the lines/cones. I do not condone crossing into the breakdown lane though, that is certainly reason to call one an AHole.

You and the guy earlier are completely ignoring the fact that when people wait to the last second, they are now slamming on their brakes, then the whole line backs up, unlike when everybody merges over well before the lane disappears and while the single line of cars isn't moving as fast as two lines of cars, it's moving significantly faster than when assholes merge at the last second, causing a long backup.

Sorry if you haven't experienced this more intelligent means of merging, I have seen it in action thousands of times and it works better than what happens in this state every single time.

 

[TheRobSJ]

I am not an engineer either, but if you're concerned about your safety and not having enough room to react and maneuver, brake checking a tailgater should not be employed. You are an engineer, are you also a Nascar watcher? Please tell me the typical result that occurs when two cars meet bumpers...which car usually spins out? The guy in front or the guy in back? Do you want to be that guy spinning out? Don't brake check! If we end up tapping bumpers, I will stick my foot into the fuel pedal in order to remain in control of my own vehicle as a self preservation method, what happens to you and your car is up to you...your self preservation skills obviously went out the window the moment you chose to brake check, so hang on for the ride.

Forget all your NASCAR analogies for a moment. And let’s also say that I don’t purposely brake check people which I’ll explain why later. So it’s not a “brake check” here, but this situation I’ll lay out here would feel all the same to you. Let’s just assume we’re driving down the freeway with you behind me. I’m going 75mph in the #1 HOV lane and you’re tailgating me. Let’s also say that this is commute time so maybe the #2 lane is maybe moving 25 at the most. Then all of a sudden someone decides to just cut into the #1 lane right in front of me so I mash the brakes on my car in an attempt to avoid or at least mitigate a collision with the fool that cut in front of me.

Sooooooo, not only are you going to hit me which is already completely your fault, but you’re actually going to fucking bury the throttle in some attempt to spin me out of the way and drive through the wreck like you’ve watched Days of Thunder just way too much? Which of course will either push me into the fool that cut me off, or worse, spin me. On a crowded fucking freeway while going 75 with a divider wall on one side of me, and slow moving cars on the other side of me, you would just spin me and turn me into a pinball. That’s your MO? Are you actually serious?


I drive a lot of cars. The majority of them are not mine. If I got rear ended in one of those, even if it’s totally not my fault, that’s still going to be a very uncomfortable conversation with one of my customers. Or worse? Let’s say I’m in my wife’s new Audi. Even though it’s a SUV, it’s brakes are absolutely phenomenal and can outstop at least 95% of anything out there. And the above situation happens where some psychopath tailgater actually spins me out and totals the god damn thing. You got $65k in property damage coverage on your insurance, or do you have the minimum $15k like most, and then I’d have to sue you for the rest? Assuming I even lived after a wreck like that.