If you are interested in an EV

[DonTom]

Well they certainly have some of the worst resale values.

I predicted that a long time ago. And it is a good thing, IMO! It makes the prices drop fast. It will not be long before the average EV costs less than the average ICE car.

For myself, I could not care less if all my vehicles drop in value to two cents each the day after I buy them. I paid 165K$ for my RV, I bet it lost at least 65K$ of its value by the time I drove it home five miles. I normally do not resale vehicles, I keep them until it is time to have it towed away to a junk yard or whatever. I still have my 1971 BMW R-75/5. I purchased it new, just like most of my other many vehicles. It will surely outlive me. That was from the days BMW knew how to make motorcycles that last forever, unlike these days.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

But that was only in the UK.

I would expect EVs in the USA to greatly outlast ICE.

No tranny to go bad. No catalytic converters, etc.

It seems to me there is a lot more electrical stuff to go wrong in an ICE vehicle than in an EV. Alternator, starter, electric fuel pump, electrical sensors all over etc.

Since I purchased my Tesla in 2018, I added a little battery coolant, replaced a door switch, replaced the cabin air filters, replaced the 12V battery and put air in the tires.

In my 2022 Chevy Bolt, I added air in the tires when I received an email telling me they were low! (that is when I found out the Chevy Bolt does that!). I have done NOTHING else to it other than drive it.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

as they do not have active cooling for the batteries.

Same with all electric motorcycles.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[DonTom]

I have a 12 yr old Jeep GC. I

I had to junk my Jeep GC a couple of years ago when all three of the catalytic converters needed to be replaced. Cost more than the Jeep was worth and could not pass a smog test. It ran great when I junked it.

BTW, I discovered my Tesla (dual motor) with the stock tires does a lot better in the snow than did the Jeep with the AT tires. The Tesla doesn't have the ground clearance but if the snow is that deep, I will not be going anywhere anyway.

I assume the weight of the battery makes it great in the snow. It has never slipped on me in the snow. My Jeeps (I owned two Jeep GCs a few years ago) have countless times.

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[TheRobSJ]

Cadillac CT5 Blackwing will make you happy. Very, very. happy. Bud.

This notion is seconded.

 

[mikev]

one of these days the Mach E will be cheap enough that I'll get the super cool performance one for a dollar

 

[Holeshot]

I assume the weight of the battery makes it great in the snow. It has never slipped on me in the snow. My Jeeps (I owned two Jeep GCs a few years ago) have countless times.

-Don- Auburn, CA

Intestinally, the lack of exhaust heat underneath EV's allows snow/ ice to build up underneath and add more weight than an ICE. That being said, I've started the hunt for a model Y for my sister who lives in snow country and won't start maintaining her cars property. Her 2016 Explorer sport she blew up at 90K miles by putting 85 octane (at altitude) in it, the entire life. I only found out when I drove her 2023 Explorer sport when I was back with her and the thing sounded like a rattle can.

 

[byke]

Weight is increasingly awesome until it isn't, then it's inversely proportional to awesome and turns into curling. Nice thing about something like an explorer is 4-low(not the newer ones), which is by far the safest braking mechanism there is for snow and ice, especially downhill.

 

[DonTom]

Her 2016 Explorer sport she blew up at 90K miles by putting 85 octane (at altitude) in it, the entire life. I

What did it do, put a hole in a piston from preignition or what?

They should not even sell that junk 85 octane anymore. However, it will be fine for very old vehicles when at high elevations that have NO pressure sensors, such as my 1971 BMW R75/5. Even my carbureted 1984 Venture has an air pressure sensor. Putting in 85 octane in it at ANY elevation is fucking with the design of the engine.

FWIW, my 2022 Class A motorhome Ford Owner's manual (7.3 L engine) makes it very clear. Using 85 octane at ANY elevation will void the engine warranty.


-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Holeshot]

They claimed there was oil in the turbos and I'm not paying for a tear down, so it's gonna be a "come and get it for $4K" deal to get it out of her driveway. I didn't even bother explaining what that rocks-in-a-can noise was...just that her putting 85 octane in (to "save" money) didn't save anything. For me, at least.

 

[TheRobSJ]

They claimed there was oil in the turbos and I'm not paying for a tear down, so it's gonna be a "come and get it for $4K" deal to get it out of her driveway. I didn't even bother explaining what that rocks-in-a-can noise was...just that her putting 85 octane in (to "save" money) didn't save anything. For me, at least.

I’ve run out of energy trying to convince the unending amount of people I come across to stop “getting away” with 87 in their vehicles that recommend premium unleaded.

Some of these people are the same people who think they’ve saved so much money on a tank of gas, yet go right into the gas station convenience store and walk out with a $2.99 single bottle of soda.

 

[Holeshot]

Yup...and they DO get away with it when someone else ends up buying their replacement vehicle. Bummer we don't teach kids in School these simple things.

 

[DonTom]

I’ve run out of energy trying to convince the unending amount of people I come across to stop “getting away” with 87 in their vehicles that recommend premium unleaded.

I have done that a few times because most of my ICE bikes are supposed to use 87 and I forget my Harley requires the highest-grade stuff. IOW, I don't need convincing, just a better memory in my old age (75)!

My EVs do not care what type of electrons they are charged with! They are all fine with low grade electrons . . . .

-Don- Auburn, CA

 

[Reli]

But there's a difference between required and recommended. If it's required, definitely use it. But if it's only recommended, the chances are very good that the knock sensors and ECU will keep the motor safe on regular octane.

I'm betting a lot of the "recommended" ones are simply because the manufacturer originally dyno'd it with premium to achieve a magic HP number for marketing purposes, and they didn't want anyone to dyno their car on regular octane and then bitch and moan on Reddit that the manufacturer lied.

Other manufacturers recommend it because their motors are highly susceptible to carbon buildup, and they're worried that regular gas might not contain enough detergents. But I think you could stay on top of that with a periodic bottle of Techron, and making sure you do plenty of highway miles, not just short trips. Also make sure you use Top Tier branded fuel, not some no-name station in a podunk little town that also sells used tires.

 

[budman]

I’ve run out of energy trying to convince the unending amount of people I come across to stop “getting away” with 87 in their vehicles that recommend premium unleaded.

Both my cars and my bikes are supreme and I like WA has 95. Wish we did.

Some of these people are the same people who think they’ve saved so much money on a tank of gas, yet go right into the gas station convenience store and walk out with a $2.99 single bottle of soda.

Or a $12 pack of smokes.

 

[TheRobSJ]

But there's a difference between required and recommended. If it's required, definitely use it. But if it's only recommended, the chances are very good that the knock sensors and ECU will keep the motor safe on regular octane.

I'm betting a lot of the "recommended" ones are simply because the manufacturer originally dyno'd it with premium to achieve a magic HP number for marketing purposes, and they didn't want anyone to dyno their car on regular octane and then bitch and moan on Reddit that the manufacturer lied.

Other manufacturers recommend it because their motors are highly susceptible to carbon buildup, and they're worried that regular gas might not contain enough detergents. But I think you could stay on top of that with a periodic bottle of Techron, and making sure you do plenty of highway miles, not just short trips. Also make sure you use Top Tier branded fuel, not some no-name station in a podunk little town that also sells used tires.

As I said, I really don’t have the energy to debate the regular-premium fuel thing anymore. But I found a second wind to cover a couple points.

Yes the “required” versus “recommended” wording gets lost on people sometimes. My Corvette is 93 required (so I’m pretty much up a creek here in CA) and our Acuras are 91 recommended. On a recommended vehicle, you can get away with less octane here and there. But the engine does have to knock a little first before the computer will pull back timing to keep things safe. Knock a little, then pull it back, then rinse and repeat. A few times a year? Ok. But to have the engine knock a little every single ignition cycle? Not going to be good for that engine long term. Which is something I’ve tried to convince the cheap bastards out there that buy a premium recommended vehicle (like an Acura compared to their Honda counterparts), but then only run 87 the whole time.

And yes, cars like Acuras that want 91 over their Honda counterparts that only want 87 have a little marketing. But the engineering is behind them too. The Acuras are calibrated with more timing advance or perhaps a slightly hotter camshaft to give them that little bit of extra power compared to the Hondas. So you can’t just put 91 in the Honda and get the same power output as the Acura. But you’ll certainly nerf the Acura by filling it with 87.

Detergent packages are the same for just about every brand of fuel no matter the grade of octane. And TopTier used to be kind of a badge of honor many years ago. But now, seems like everyone can make the list. You’ve got brands like Arco, Marathon, and Valero on there. And those are just some of the bigger chains that I know are trash, I wouldn’t even put that stuff in a rental car.

 

[mean dad]

Are there negatives (beyond cost) to using higher octane fuels exclusively? Regardless of the vehicle's recommendations/requirements/age/mileage?

I tend to use the highest grade available no matter which vehicle I'm filling up.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Are there negatives (beyond cost) to using higher octane fuels exclusively? Regardless of the vehicle's recommendations/requirements/age/mileage?

I tend to use the highest grade available no matter which vehicle I'm filling up.

Short answer is no. As Reli mentioned, there are cases where a particular brand may put an additional additive only in the premium grade fuel. Only one I can think of, and not sure if they still even do it, is Shell. Shell “V-Power” and Shell “V-Power Nitro+” is how they labeled it at the pump.

 

[DonTom]

Are there negatives (beyond cost) to using higher octane fuels exclusively?

Yes, it is possible if octane is way too high, the gasoline then will not explode. It will be as if mixed with water.

What octane does is to prevent the gasoline from exploding until a temperature is so high. The higher the octane, the higher temperature that is required. Pinging is caused by low octane because it fires before the normal combustion temperature. Higher octane prevents this. But octane could be so high that it doesn't fire at all because the required temperature is never reached.

However, it is unlikely to give problems by putting in 91 when 87 is required, as 91 probably will not be too high. But is probably possible in a few engines.

Best just to use what your owner's manual recommends. There is NO benefit in going higher than that in a modern engine.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[byke]

What's weird is that our old expedition will ping horribly on 87. You wouldn't think a silly vehicle like that would need premium, but we absolutely have to use 91 or else it will ping terribly with any acceleration in final gear. Couldn't say what ford recommends or requires, but...it's required.