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Insurance fiasco

here's an idea:
all the vendors have someone at a "home base". Person needs parts, calls home base, pays via credit card to home base, base calls "delivery person" and ok's to deliver. No vending at track side, only delivery.

Doesnt help the service guys....

paralleling that, how about buying from the vendors website and then taking delivery track side or pre paying (before event) to service folks?

That's all well and good but from my experience the majority of the sales we make at the track are all unexpected purchases. Unfortunately you can't know if you are going to crash or not and what you'll need.
 
That's all well and good but from my experience the majority of the sales we make at the track are all unexpected purchases. Unfortunately you can't know if you are going to crash or not and what you'll need.

Ken is right, I directed several folks to him for parts last season and it was always a crash or unexpected mechanical issue that drove the need for parts.
 
To clarify a tad here. T-Hill did require vendors to carry an insurance rider last year, issued to T-Hill directly naming them as Additional Insured. They also assessed a $100/event fee that all vendors were supposed to pay, also directly to T-Hill. This fee was in addition to AFM vendor fees.

This happened at a point part way into the 2008 season and we immediately complied. We never saw anyone from T-Hill come around and check anything or ask anyone for their cert or fee. It was pretty loosey-goosey thing as far as auditing went.

The question I have here is how many other vendors complied with, or were even aware of the insurance requirement and fees T-Hill demanded last year? Because the AFM was aware of this (brand new for 2008) T-Hill requirement (we were informed of it via an email blast from Kevin Smith last May) from last year how did vendors without insurance handle the rest of the 2008 AFM season at T-Hill"?

Secondarily, how have all the track-day providers and their vendors dealt with this policy at T-Hill since it's inception last year?

That's a great clarification, thanks. I will ask a few vendor friends about that and how they dealt with it last year, if at all.

But it does beg the question, why did the AFM need to change it's policy and stop buying it from T-Hill? Again so far it seems the only reason was to accomodate the under 16 aged riders.
 
As I read this, if we wanted to allow the under 16 racers in at T-Hill,

Thanks
and this is what afm members did want. last year we were all bitching why 16 under can not race with afm. so board worked on changing it. under 16 allowed to race but now you have to change insurance policy.
so, all you that are bitching about it actually wanted this.
 
I am a track day vender and I have never heard of any requirement for me to have any type of insurance! I've worked with a half dozen track day providers and never had any of them mention anything about it. The main two I have worked with are Kegwins and PTT.

I have a pretty good relationship with some of the top folks from Thunder Hill having had a shop there for the last few years and never heard anything from them or had them ask me for any kind of liability coverage. On the 30th I had a chance to talk with one of the Thunder Hill officials and I mentioned what was going on and he was a bit mystified. It seemed to be news to him. I said I would gather up some of the more on topic posts from here and the AFM site for him to check out. I will not name names at this time but after our next conversation I will see if he will go on the record and if so I will post my findings!

Until then I will keep my fingers off the key board and start looking in to OMRRA and WERA. Seems like it might be a good time to spread the wealth around and see if the other clubs are having problems like this! I'm looking to race up at PIR with OMRRA in May. My Fun mover will haul 6 bikes and riders if any body wants to join me.

I will still be at Infineon for round 2 but not sure if I want to deal with this any longer. I do this for fun and it hasn't been so fun lately! This club has survived just fine for 50 some odd years before I came along and I am sure it will do just fine for another 50 with out me!

Pat
#31
 
That's all well and good but from my experience the majority of the sales we make at the track are all unexpected purchases. Unfortunately you can't know if you are going to crash or not and what you'll need.

I think you missed my point:
say I crash and need a brake lever. Instead of buying directly from you, I order it from your home store. Home store says you have one in stock, and you deliver shortly there after.
Sale is elsewhere; you just become a delivery boy.
 
I think you missed my point:
say I crash and need a brake lever. Instead of buying directly from you, I order it from your home store. Home store says you have one in stock, and you deliver shortly there after.
Sale is elsewhere; you just become a delivery boy.

how that does not make you vendor when you there at track with purpose to supply parts for money??
 
I'd like to see one of those arcade claw machines at the track, stuffed with spare racing parts. If you want that brake lever, you gotta earn it. :laughing

PICT0051.jpg
 
Hey Eddy,

If you guys want to take a trip up north with us that would be great. I bet I could even find a bike for you to ride if yours isn't ready. Most likely something you would even be familier with! I've heard PIR is a fun little track and I am really looking forward to going to Pacific Raceway! Barry is the Dunlop man up there and I will be talking to him this week to get the lowdown. I also have that big invintory of rains,might as well get some use out of them!

I'll get back to you when I hear more.

The dirt riding is awesome right now, you guys should come up and get away from the city for a few days?

Pat
#31
 
Let me begin with an introduction. My name is Eric Odle and I am a licensed Farmers Insurance Agent specializing in commercial insurance and financial services for 8 years. I recently brokered the agreement for the AFM’s new general liability and excess liability insurance policy. In the past 6 seasons of attending AFM events I have had the opportunity and pleasure to become acquainted with some of you. To quote Bilbo Baggins: “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like…and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

I have been made aware of some insurance concerns and I would like to take this opportunity to address them but will limit my comments to that arena.

After reviewing AFM & BARF threads it is clear to me that all of the questions and concerns can be broken down into 6 categories:

1) Relationships
2) Risk
3) Coverage(s) and requirements
4) Cost
5) Options
6) Timing

1) RELATIONSHIPS:
In my years within the motorcycle and racing communities I have developed friendships with many and conducted business with some of you. In fact, of the many clients and over 5,000 policies that I am responsible to, the vast majority have come from referrals, which is a common business practice. I am the insurance agent for Zoom Zoom Events. Nothing I do for AFM benefits Z2 and vise versa. Both are simply clients I serve. There is no conflict of interest.

I was contacted by the Race Director for the AFM whom I am told has dealt with the club’s insurance needs for at least two decades. She asked if I could find a policy that met the requirements that the AFM is facing for 2009 going forward for GL, excess liability and participant accident/excess medical. I was informed the current carrier was not willing to insure the club to the limits that the tracks are now requiring; oh and by the way, racers under the age of 16 were now in the mix. I secured a proposal and presented it back to the race director.

2) RISKS:
Some of you may not have made the connection between the insurance industry’s requirements and recent developments across the country in specialized markets. Motorcycle racing is a specialized market. A recent example involves a disassociated mother that claimed she did not know her ex-husband was allowing their son to race, the boy tragically died during a race and the mother sued. Ask ANY insurance agent, if you want to see what’s possible in our industry just look to California, Texas and Florida. In today’s climate the club faces significant exposure if the correct coverage is not in place.

It has been suggested by some that “other clubs are not requiring vendor/minor coverage, why is the AFM?” This is difficult to address because without seeing the actual policy/bind requirements it is just hearsay. In any case, because other entities may be functioning in a “loosey-goosey” fashion does not remove what could be significant exposure for the AFM. Proper coverage and the due diligence of the Board only serve to protect the long term viability and future of the club. The insurance coverage covers the club’s tangible assets and to some degree intangible benefits as well as being the responsible thing to do. This preserves the privilege to continue racing. Believe me, any uninsured vendor is an unnecessary risk for the club. There have been literally thousands of lawsuits and claims across multiple venues involving contractors and vendors at events put on by an organizer. Motorcycle racing is a sliver of the sum total of events and underwriters aren’t going to conduct laser surgery to cut out this industry and make special exemptions when exposure still exists even if it is not frequently encountered.

3) COVERAGES & REQUIREMENTS:
A standard bind requirement for the new policy was that any approved vendors for the AFM must provide a certificate of insurance (proving they have coverage) and naming the AFM as an additional insured. Please understand that the carrier in no way meant to “punish” anyone with this requirement as has been suggested by some, they are merely looking out for the best interests of the AFM. It has also been suggested that the vendors are victims as a result of bringing the under-16 year olds into the fold. This is incorrect. The fact that the carrier is requiring certificates from the vendors has nothing to do with the under-16 year olds. Requiring the vendors to carry their own coverage and name the AFM is simply a necessary step to further insulate the club.

4) COSTS:
The Race Director indicated that the GL and excess looked great however the carrier I was working with was considerably higher on the PA/excess medical. I was very interested in helping the club out in any way that I could and after some discussions was able to get my underwriters to agree to split the policy and underwrite ONLY the GL and excess liability so the club could stay with its current carrier for the PA/excess medical. I was very pleased with this arrangement as it is not at all common for a carrier to do this as they were walking away from 80% of the premium. I presented the revised proposal to Barbara, she presented to the board and she then accepted for the club. It has been suggested that the new requirements are putting an undue stress on some of the vendors. In fact one of the vendors stated that he contacted 7 different insurers and was not able to find anything under $8K, I am not sure who he has been talking to but prior to him making such a big deal about not wanting to associate with the AFM any longer I was able to secure him a quote for $490.32 for an annual policy that covers him even outside of the AFM. The other vendors that I have been working with have varying specialties but suffice to say that none of them have come in over $3K and I am still researching other markets. The majority of vendors have already secured what is needed and have already commented on the ease for some in doing so.

5) OPTIONS:
Some recommendations/suggestions have come up in the posts on both forums. This input is a matter that is best addressed by the board on a case by case basis. As one of my clients I’m happy to advise them on insurance related matters that may spawn from suggestions.

6) TIMING:
This topic has been covered in great detail in previous posts, suffice to say the coverage(s) needed to address the current needs of the club were put in place as quickly as humanly possible. I was contacted in late February. There were time constraints involved.

In closing let me just add that it has been indicated to me by the Race Director that the policy that was designed to address the current issues of the AFM for 2009 and going forward do so at a savings to the club, as she is able to eliminate multiple other policies, and it also provides greater coverage. It has been suggested in these forums that I have “thrown the AFM under the bus” by “allowing” what really amounts to common sense verbiage to be in the bind requirements. So if finding better coverage for the club at a cost savings to the club is “throwing you under the bus” then I must stand guilty as charged.
It has also been suggested that I “cashed a nice commission check for the new policy”. Make no mistake, as commercial policies go, the policy for the AFM is very small and if it were not for the fact that it IS the AFM I would have delegated this to one of my staff in my office. The amount of man hours and reinvestment that I am dedicating back into the club makes this very much a negative return policy from a monetary standpoint.
 
Quotes ranging from $490.32 to over $3k is quite a range for a simple insurance requirement that vendors should have easily been able to meet.

Let me guess, $490.32 for a T-Shirt vendor or photography service and $3k for tire changing/suspension tuning with motorcycle part sales coming in somewhere in the middle.

This is definitely a "negative return policy" for those on the short end of the insurance stick in this economy :twofinger

Overall this whole situation is a total :loser for the AFM IMHO
 
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This seems very easy to fix... get rid of the 16 and younger requirement and dont allow them to race in the AFM or under the AFM umbrella. The news press from the youth org stated is was happy to partner up with the AFM... well yeah no kidding! The AFM is taking care of the much needed liability insurance so these kids can race on the tracks. Nothing wrong with this but the AFM should have brought this up to the general membership for a vote prior to making such a deal and the impacts of this partnership should have been detailed out in a pros and cons type of presentation.

Thill and BW are NOT requiring minors be allowed to race in the AFM, nor are they forcing the club to insure individuals whom dont race, this is what the track liability is for.

This whole prospect of new insurance for the AFM came about because of the youth racing that the AFM wanted to partner with...this would be the USGPRU. The AFM asked the two tracks in question (BW and Thill) late last year what they would require for these minors to race under the AFM and the answer was pretty simple... get liability insurance for them... so the AFM went shopping and this is how and why this got to where it is now.

The AFM asked Infineon the same question but the answer was a resounding no; minors are not allowed to race at Infineon. The AFM went shopping, found a policy, signed it and now the USGPRU is scheduled to race at both BW and THill. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why this happened, the only questions that remain open are the motives and benefits vs the changes that effect the membership and vendors alike. Had the AFM said no to the USGPRU and no to minors racing in the AFM this would be a non issue and the AFM (with respect to the vendors) would have been no different then last year.

Was this new youth racing program brought before the membership and the membership given a chance to vote on it before allowing this national youth orginization to partner with the AFM? Was the membership informed of the vendor changes this impact would have? Was the membership involved in this decision at all? No is wasn't, in fact the vendors were given one week notice that they would have to obtain a 1m liability rider even though State Farm should have told them of this new requirement in the very onset discussions. Most racers did not find out about this mess until they got to the track and realized a vendor was not present, even though they had been for many years.

The State Farm insurance guy has already said that the new rider was written solely on the basis of allowing minors to race. Why this change? Thill management knows very little about this, either that or they are playing it very low key as to not get drug into the mix (meaning they are lying). Like a previous poster had already stated Thill management was more then confused when queried on this very topic.

I know of at least 4 vendors who's livelihood dramatically changed for FY 2009 in one weekend because of the changes made by the AFM, with no warning they have been effectively "shut out" from attending races as a vendor unless they come up with the needed rider. This is not only unfair it is down right unprofessional and makes the AFM look like a poorly run orginization. For Shawn to simply say that he thought that all vendors had this liability requirement already met is severely short sided and uniformed... obviously no impact study was done... it should have been.

BTW why would a photographer need liability insurance? What are they going to do throw a camera at someone as they pass in a corner? Oh wait a minute... never mind I get it... just in case said photographer takes a photo of a minor racing the parents cant sue them for taking the photo without consent or have them arrested for child porn or something stupid like that correct?

like I said... get rid of the minors and said problems go away...

BOD you should really consider putting these types of decisions before the membership you represent... would seem only right. If your reasoning for not doing so is because the membership is not present during the monthly meetings at the distant restaurant then you should really consider changing the venue to the track and inviting the membership to these meetings, not only would it save the membership money but I am fairly positive that if you do this you will get a lot more feedback from the membership as to how they want "their" orginization run. Then again maybe you dont want feedback from the membership...

I for one hope this burns some ego's and pisses people off... maybe next time people will think before they yank someones income out from under thier feet!
 
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It has also been suggested that I “cashed a nice commission check for the new policy”. Make no mistake, as commercial policies go, I made a pretty fat commision.

Fixed...

Oh and BTW... Bullshit... no insurance agent writes a policy for a negative return... go sell that crap somewhere else. You are in business to make money and if you did this commercial policy for free (or what amounts to free) then you might wish to enroll in some classes at the local community college... business 101 might help.
 
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reedcrr:thumbup well said!

There a lot of different sides of the story here but not many making any sense!

Sorry Pat for the long winded post... just sick and tired of thirty pages of BS (both here and on the AFM board). This was clearly a decision made in a vacuum with very little thought other then to attempt a reduction of the AFM's financial responsibilities from an insurance point of view while rewriting the liability policy to include minors, and while all intentions might have been honorable it has effected many people from putting food on the table and being able to pay bills. This economy sucks ass right now and I would have to imagine the races will severely thin out as the season progresses, this in itself will have an effect on the vendors... no need to kick them while they are already down. If the AFM is so broke that it needs to partner with other orgs in order to secure the tracks then it should inform it's membership of this important information.

I am very surprised by the actions taken so far by this current BOD... it's like they are completely out of touch... which makes no sense at all because individually each one of them are very responsible and well respected. Enough with the super secret squirrel shit... this is a local racing org not a government agency... inform people and give them a choice! And what is with the pro-temp VP? Is that appointment even recognized in the bylaws? It makes sense that the position should be a part of the org but to appoint rather then vote that position in? Once again it makes you wonder.
 
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Fixed...

Oh and BTW... Bullshit... no insurance agent writes a policy for a negative return... go sell that crap somewhere else. You are in business to make money and if you did this commercial policy for free (or what amounts to free) then you might wish to enroll in some classes at the local community college... business 101 might help.

Oh right...I forgot, it is only the vendors that help out the AFM for free...got it.
On the bright side, at least I will get to know them pretty well since we will all be at the same 101 class.
 
I am very surprised by the actions taken so far by this current BOD... it's like they are completely out of touch... which makes no sense at all because individually each one of them are very responsible and well respected. Enough with the super secret squirrel shit... this is a local racing org not a government agency... inform people and give them a choice! And what is with the pro-temp VP? Is that appointment even recognized in the bylaws? It makes sense that the position should be a part of the org but to appoint rather then vote that position in? Once again it makes you wonder.

If you took the time to read the by-laws you would know that appointment is allowed. By the way, the by-laws are available for all to read on the AFM website.

The appointment in question is for a position that was left vacant by a board member who got elected to a different position on the board.

in the past, board members have held two positions and let one go at the end of one of the positions. This time Shawn chose to step down from VP after he was elected President, which is his right. It is also the right of the board to decide to appoint someone to that position or hold a special election. I am assuming the board voted on this and decided to appoint someone, and then they voted on the appointment.

The main side affect of this was that it added an additional vote, as Shawn wouldn't have been able to cast two votes (one as VP and one as Pres). It also meant that Shawn wasn't responsible to perform both duties.

So in the end, the board acted within their power on this.

I think people are forgetting a simple fact. The Board was elected by the members to run the club. They were not elected by the members to ask the members what to do on every item that came across their desk. A Board needs some level of trust to act on their own. When those actions are in direct conflict with the best interest of the club is when the club has the right to question the board and the by-laws spell out what can be done.

So if anyone has an issue with the board, go read the by-laws and take action. Simple complaining will get you no where, except taking time away from the board to run the club they were entrusted to run.
 
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