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Low Cost Custom Racer

Bang-for-buck shiiit, I'm goin' racin!
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Not bad, but I would have used Bamboo
 
Low cost and racing don't belong in the same sentence.

Still we're talking about a GP bike not a production bike.

Like Moto 2... it's about the engines.

It's all relative. But once you start talking about putting motors in frames which some large manufacturer didn't design to do so, costs go up dramatically. Very few people have the skills to create their own custom frame like you're talking about. And the venn diagram of people with the skills, time, money and interest in racing such a bike is even smaller.

Also, it's not like Moto2. In Moto2, Geo Technologies builds & maintains the engines for the entire grid. They then seal the engines and then hand them out randomly in an attempt to make sure everyone has the same HP numbers. I suppose you could say people have to use a production legal 450CRF motor in the bike, but IMHO that doesn't make a lot of sense in this kind of class.

Anyways, I still don't get it. Nobody is stopping you/anyone from building or racing such a bike. People have done so in the past. Before asking for a new class, why not race it in the classes it's already legal for? You'll have much better luck with that IMHO. Good case in point, are the 450cc GSXR triples which race in F4, 450 superbike and clubman/F40 lightweight.

Anyways, if you decide to do it, come over and introduce yourself some time to me. I love looking at custom race bikes and I'd love to hear the story behind it.
 
Honda Moto 3 bike costs over $25,000... and be prepaired to pay more for just the engine for a Moto 2 bike.

Not too may of us have the cash to put ourselves on the grid at the next USGP. And that's a drag... So I'm proposing an alternative. An alternative that would work with this countries pro bike racing org... the AMA.

When I visualize this class, the bikes, the potential amount of competition... it sounds great. It's great because the bikes are purpose built. Change the gearbox ratios and increase the oil capacity of the current 450 MX engines and you'll have realable, strong engines that are relatively cheap. And chassis cost will be similar to the current outlaw short trackers... just add front brakes and fairing.

Again, it's GP racing... and for those who have ridden GP bikes, you'll know why I advocate this.
 
Ask Gerry Piazza, pretty sure he's raced a custom frame in the AFM. Basically, they look to see if it looks nice and it's not held together with duct tape and bailing wire. Honestly, based on my experience I'm not even sure tech would notice unless you mentioned it to them.

I know I had a bit too much red wine last night but this feels a lot like a dig on AFM tech. Duct tape that is safety wired is OK, new rule in 2014. Ask David, or is it Terry? I can't remember who is who anymore :)
 
I know I had a bit too much red wine last night but this feels a lot like a dig on AFM tech.

Wasn't intended to be a dig, just a statement of fact regarding what the purpose of AFM tech is. AFM tech focuses on the tech sheet. There's nothing on the tech sheet which says "frame welds look competent and aren't cracked" or the like. The rule book says it's your job to make sure the bike is safe to ride.

I went through AFM tech last year with an SV650 motor hanging in a Ducati 1098 frame and nobody in tech noticed or commented on it. Nobody asked about the bracket we had to fabricate to fit the motor in the frame or made even a cursory check to make sure it was sane. Mostly they just look to make sure it's safety wired correctly, your brakes work, your throttle auto-closes and you don't have a clip on master link.

And most of your frame is going to be covered by the upper bodywork so it's not really easy to tech anyways.
 
Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but I don't follow AMA that closely...

But what does AMA Pro Singles (flat track) have to do with a 450 in a GP style chassis? They're both singles... but everything else is different right? Is there an AMA class for singles road racing?

Still though, I don't understand why the AFM would create a new class for this when there are already classes where such a bike would be legal. How many people do you have interested in racing with you on these bikes?
 
As IBYS and synfinatic have already stated.

Yes you can create the machine you are describing.
Yes you will have a class to race in.

Now for the reality.

It is November 29th..Round 1 is in March.
If your pocket book is deep than no worries you can cut a 13,000$ check and have one built using a factory 450MX frame.
15,000 Thousand will get you a modified RS125 framed 450 ground up PRE '98 chassis-20K if you are looking for a newer frame.23K if trying to use a 250GP chassis.

Now. If your pocket book is not flush and you are going alone-ground up all by yourself as of now you will be working on it up until the night before round 1.Be prepared for the steepest learning curve regarding setup and motor you have ever challenged yourself with.Plus hours an hours of research phone calls and knowledge seeking networking.

The KTM MOTO3 bike you referenced is a 250cc machine and will be priced at 65K-and comes de-tuned from true moto3 spec.The Honda you referenced is also a 250cc machine and is even more power deficient than the soon to be available KTM.

Bring it to the Grid-by all means.Again there will be a place to race it.Is it cost effective? That is up to you to decide after you spend the time and Money.

Make no mistake it has been done before you and we do it because we love the challenge and like to tinker and build.

Below is all the same machine.
 

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There are a significant amount of GP Tech parts on my 450 Single conversion. At the end of the day your club racing with AFM. Some juvenile with a last of Mcalister rode a honda MX in circles around me at Sears this year, no conversion besides Supermoto stuff and gobs of talent. I hear he put on a good show but I only had a view for the first lap after he passed me.

AMA won't make a new class because they can't field large grids for 600 and liter bikes. AFM has a class structure that fits nearly every bike you could think of, each with advantages and disadvantages. Build a single and come race, it is a great class to race with.
 
Give this dude a call for repackaging motors into frames that work! This guy modified a Cafe frame for me with great results! welding finish is unbelievable!

They also built a custom track bike with a big twin cam Harley motor, 24lb frame, hand built swing arm, custom tank and a trick custom transmission housing to get the right geometry for the frame/wheel base.

BTR Moto out of Hayward.
 

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A limited cost racing class.

A class for the builders and experimenters.

A class where the supply of engines is plentiful.

A class where the bikes are light and handle great.

The SV650 has been raced since 1999, you just described it above. :laughing

Pick up a Superbike SV650 racebike for $4k, enjoy. :thumbup
 
Kawasaki KLX F450

This racer was built as a prototype and raced with the AFM. It is currently for sale and would be a good race bike for the AFM. Max Capps AFM # 8
 

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The responses have been informative... great links and comments. Thanks.

In an efforf to keeping costs down, people are using street bike frond ends on MX bikes (see RX311 link.) Add clip ons, rear footpegs and some fiberglass and you've converted your MX bike to a road racer. While a good start it's quite there yet.

Chassis: The stock chassis leaves the bike a little long... probably around 56 inches. That's about 2 inches too many... but not a deal breaker.

Engine: What's different about a road race than the MX races these engines were designed for is the amount of time the engine is wide open in high gear. I believe these engines would benefit from additional oil capacity. The gearbox standard MX gearbox ratios would also need to be changed to a closer ratio set of gears... both areas are very doable. Those two modifications open the door for extracting more high RPM horsepower or narrowing the power band. Can the crank, rod, piston and valve train handle the added horsepower? I don't know...

But... here's the tie in to the AMA pro singles class... the AMA races the 450 pro singles on the mile. The dirt miles are an environment that's harder on the engines than the paved road race straight-a-ways. There's total symbiosis between the two. An absolute synergy.

My intentions are to examine a way to reintroduce low cost GP racing with a true throughbred GP bike... an experimental bike, a prototype racer.

BTW: The SV650's sound like a great bike to race
 
You keep bringing up Flat Track Pro Singles as an example and a benefit. It looks like that class has been elminated for 2014. There are now two "twins" classes for miles and half-miles.
 
But... here's the tie in to the AMA pro singles class... the AMA races the 450 pro singles on the mile. The dirt miles are an environment that's harder on the engines than the paved road race straight-a-ways. There's total symbiosis between the two. An absolute synergy.

IMHO, AMA will create a Ninjette Cup or Moto3 class before they go with a 450 thumper and that's assuming they even want a small bike class again which is doubtful. The last time AMA ran a 125cc GP event was 2007 right?

The AMA grids are small enough and asking people to develop completely new bikes with very little data isn't the way to make the grids flush again. And in reality, your idea isn't that inexpensive compared to other options out there. And not like a 450GP class is going to help the AMA sign a TV deal.

Personally, I think it would be great if they had a 650Twins class, but I can't see that happening either. And unlike your idea, there are already hundreds of club racers in the USA racing 650Twins and so you'd be able to attract plenty of local racers looking for a taste of AMA Pro.

So unless you've got some AMA contacts who can make your idea happen, I'd just worry about building your bike, racing it in the AFM and having a lot of fun. There's nothing quite like building your own bike and then going racing on it. :thumbup
 
maybe they make honda 500 spec class :)

That might be cool.

Seems unlikely there would be a spec class without the bike manufacturer being heavily involved in it though. And I can't see Honda cozying up to AMA right now unless AMA came to them cup in hand and offered a bunch of concessions in the other classes as well which also seems unlikely.
 
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