"Oriental" - is it derogatory?

[CocoLoco]

I'm 33, she's 32 (33 in Nov). We've been together for 10 years in June, married for 2 years in Aug. We both grew up in San Mateo. She was born at SF General. Neither one of us has been married previously. We have mutual friends that we've known since before we met each other.

Although our families and ethnic backgrounds are very different, we are not that different from one another.

This is much like my wife and I. She's full Filipina but born at SF General.

The funny thing is that she gets mad at me if I tell people she's "American" even though the most time she ever spent in the Philippines is about 3 months...out of her entire life. In fact I doubt she's spent more than a year's worth of time outside of California in her lifetime. She doesn't have a strong Filipino cultural foundation. She doesn't speak Tagalog or any other Filipino languages. So when she looks at me sideways for saying she's "American" I just shrug and give her the "whatevs" expression.

 

[Mr. White]

haha I was waaay off!

But growing up in San Mateo, you can't tell me didn't know that word was offensive to Asians.

Honestly, no shit, I've never used the term myself. And I've only heard other people use a a few times. I knew that it is offensive to my wife, and that it's definitely an "outdated" term.

 

[Bay Arean]

Yes I am. And then maybe it's a good thing the word doesn't bother me. The world could use a little more of that.

Agreed. I think of American media and social discourse in this area as infantile. They dance around the "n-word" because they are afraid to even utter it. This comes up periodically.

I asked a cousin of MS. BA, who lives in Italy, whether Italian tv announcers can say racial pejoratives or whether they have such a construct as "n-word."

Italians can be total bigots and they have a whole set of put-downs for Sicilians, but he assured me that they don't have such a thing.

When do we get to be grown up? Were always told, "well, we're different because of the legacy of slavery."

I guess..Like other countries didn't have various forms of indenture and oppression. Then we're told that its because of the founding documents and the promise of equality. But I would say that having a horrific Civil War ought to have grown us up enough to understand how we got here. But no, we must be "protected" from hate speech lest it turn us hateful.

Anyway, good for you. May all the old bigotries and even memories die with us geezers. things have already changed so very much in my time here.

 

[stan23]

Honestly, no shit, I've never used the term myself. And I've only heard other people use a a few times. I knew that it is offensive to my wife, and that it's definitely an "outdated" term.

I'll get off your case now. It's an offensive term for sure.

 

[fawndog]

I'll get off your case now. It's an offensive term for sure.

I disagree, unless it's said with disdain. I think it shows a disconect from more acceptable modern descriptions like "Asian".

FWIW, my godfather is from Tennessee, has a dixie flag, and when drunk has said "slope" and "rag head" in my presence. So I recognise I may have a different perspective.

 

[Reli]

negro isn't derogatory.

Maybe because you live here in CA, but I have family in the South, and I can assure you it's used in a derogatory fashion there, by whites.

 

[Kurosaki]

Maybe because you live here in CA, but I have family in the South, and I can assure you it's used in a derogatory fashion there, by whites.

I think a lot of words we might consider normal are used in a derogatory fashion in the South.

 

[afm199]

In Germany, the very liberal community still makes jokes about the Turks, Germany's largest minority and often a target of derision. And I mean liberal.

I heard this one from an ex GF: "Die Türken müssen die Kohlen holen. It's a jibe meaning that the Turks get to carry coal up four flights of stairs to apartments.

The US is far from being a unique community of bigots, we're just like everyone else.

 

[Reli]

I think a lot of words we might consider normal are used in a derogatory fashion in the South.

True

Another "interesting" phrase used over there is "the blacks".

"The blacks are always doing this.... the blacks are always doing that."

Why not just say "black people"?

 

[Kurosaki]

True

Another "interesting" phrase used over there is "the blacks".

"The blacks are always doing this.... the blacks are always doing that."

Why not just say "black people"?

 

[Eldritch]

Sounds like you are hoping for more sheeple and fewer individuals

Exactly the opposite, good sir. Individuals don't give a fuck what other people think about them, so they don't let shit like how others address their pointless self-identification labels impact their own sense of self-worth.

Seeking any validation from society at large or really anyone that is not a close and highly valued personal confidant worthy of trust is a character flaw of the most weak and grotesque.

If a group proclaims that they find a term offensive, who decides whether it's a trivial issue or not? "Nigger" probably occupies a different place on the continuum of offensiveness than "Oriental" does, but where does the line get drawn? For me, if people don't want to be called a certain thing, I'll try to accommodate. It's not that hard.

The point is, fuck what anybody finds offensive. Get over yourselves.

Horse shit. We have gotten where we are as a species by being supportive of one another as much as pushing each other (and ourselves) without exception. I know this may be completely anecdotal and I'll say it anyway. The best coaches/bosses I've ever had knew how to balance support with demands for high performance. I don't think I'd be wrong in suggesting that most people, if they reflect on the best "coaches" they've ever had, would agree.

Bullshit. The Greatest Generation did not conquer the known fucking world by being supportive of each other and being full of hugs. All my granddads folks on both sides (blue collar guys in San Franciso and NYC, pretty diverse groups) fuckin' buddy around by doing nothing, but talking shit and taunting each others race/ethnicity/culture/religion wahtever. They don't sit around and support each others fucking egos because real men would be ashamed to admit they ever even wanted that kind of support beyond the right to punch a guy in his eye for saying something too far. We have gotten shittier as a society ever since.

Oh, I try. There's a lot of putschback though...:|

Good, I hope they push back hard. The more they push back, the better you both are for it.

 

[V4]

I'm the sensitive type so I'd rather you folks address me as Mr. Asian the outstanding American...

thank you..

 

[kongjie]

Bullshit. The Greatest Generation did not conquer the known fucking world by being supportive of each other and being full of hugs.

Maybe if they had, the world would be a better place.

I'm not sure what "get over yourselves" means, really, because it can be simply turned around. It's not about being politically correct; it's about realizing that there are a lot of people in the world who have experienced a world much different from yours.

 

[sanjuro]

You gotta remember that while you spit in any direction in the Bay Area, you will hit an Asian, we still represent 5% of the US.

There are some people who do not know any Asians. They may use antiquated terms. Have ignorant questions. And fail to understand that political correctness applies to Asians too.

But in my experience, not one of these people intended to be disrespectful. To treat me badly. Or to insult me.

That's why I don't get mad when someone says, "Oriental".

 

[sckego]

Two more data points from today: coworker, half Japanese, doesn't consider it offensive. Wife, Chinese, doesn't consider it offensive in and of itself, but it can be depending on intent.

 

[Abacinator]

Ornamental?

 

[teg916]

I don't see Kraut and Oriental as comparable terms. Kraut is referring to somebody in terms of what they eat. It would be like calling an asian rice head or a black guy fried chicken.

Oriental refers to an entire region.

 

[Reli]

Wikipedia: Kraut is a German word recorded in English from 1918 onwards as a derogatory term for a German....

Dictionary.com: Older Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. A contemptuous term used to refer to a German, especially a German soldier.....

Urban Dictionary: Offensive slang for a German person.

 

[Eldritch]

Maybe if they had, the world would be a better place.

I'm not sure what "get over yourselves" means, really, because it can be simply turned around. It's not about being politically correct; it's about realizing that there are a lot of people in the world who have experienced a world much different from yours.

Bullshit. You seem to have some underlying sentimental notion that people should care about each other.

 

[CocoLoco]

First you say this...

Right? Almost without exception, there is a right way and a wrong way to do anything. By being tolerant and accepting less from one another, we undermine the value of the species. Always we must strive to evolve, improve and be better than we were the day before.

...then you say this...

Bullshit. The Greatest Generation did not conquer the known fucking world by being supportive of each other and being full of hugs. All my granddads folks on both sides (blue collar guys in San Franciso and NYC, pretty diverse groups) fuckin' buddy around by doing nothing, but talking shit and taunting each others race/ethnicity/culture/religion wahtever. They don't sit around and support each others fucking egos because real men would be ashamed to admit they ever even wanted that kind of support beyond the right to punch a guy in his eye for saying something too far. We have gotten shittier as a society ever since.

You're contradicting yourself. First you say we undermine ourselves as a species when we accept less than the "right" type of behavior from one another. Then you say my grandfathers' generation was able to accomplish the goal of defeating tyranny in their time even though they treated each other disrespectfully. In other words they spoke to each other disrespectfully and yet they were able to put that aside and work together to accomplish something bigger.