Pismo fans should be skerd

[Entoptic]

I love that place.

 

[ratsblast]

This is how the good environmentalists kill everything, sick the EPA on something. Make the compliance rules so onerous as to be a defacto ban. "Well you can apply for a variance but we will make sure you you never get it."

That being said ohv users should do there part to not tear the shit outta everything. I have seen how people rip it up offroad and it causes real damage, then you give a pinko commie environmetalist ammunition.

 

[Whammy]

This is how the good environmentalists kill everything, sick the EPA on something. Make the compliance rules so onerous as to be a defacto ban. "Well you can apply for a variance but we will make sure you you never get it."

That being said ohv users should do there part to not tear the shit outta everything. I have seen how people rip it up offroad and it causes real damage, then you give a pinko commie environmetalist ammunition.

This ^ and the fact there is always going to be a great horned burrowing spotted snapping fish anyplace these jokers want to do a land grab.
Anyone remember the Oyster farm? SMH seriously this state has gone to total shit in my lifetime. SMH again.
Lets just ride

 

[Brokenlink]

This is how the good environmentalists kill everything, sick the EPA on something. Make the compliance rules so onerous as to be a defacto ban. "Well you can apply for a variance but we will make sure you you never get it."

That being said ohv users should do there part to not tear the shit outta everything. I have seen how people rip it up offroad and it causes real damage, then you give a pinko commie environmetalist ammunition.

Meh, I don't think you can blanket blame "the environmentalists". The thing in this particular case is that the State Parks is out of compliance with the federal endangered species act in regards to protection of the snowy plover. It's really about the federal law: https://www.newtimesslo.com/sanluis...he-endangered-species-act/Content?oid=4180217

This ^ and the fact there is always going to be a great horned burrowing spotted snapping fish anyplace these jokers want to do a land grab.
Anyone remember the Oyster farm? SMH seriously this state has gone to total shit in my lifetime. SMH again.
Lets just ride

The Drake's oyster farm issue had nothing to do with " great horned burrowing spotted snapping fish". It was a land rights issue. Being within a National Seashore, it was mandated to close. The owner bought it knowing full well he was going to have to close it. Again, you can blame whomever you want, but pointing the finger at "environmentalists" is wrong. Blame the NPS. Blame the laws that state that national seashores and wilderness areas are not supposed to have commercial enterprises operating and utilizing the resources.

Personally, I liked the oyster farm but fully understood why it was closed and am ok with it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drakes_Bay_Oyster_Company

https://civileats.com/2015/08/26/the-oyster-war-what-really-happened-to-drakes-bay-farm/

 

[ratsblast]

Layers of compliance engineered in a way to shut someone down. The environmentalists use the endangered species act to stop almost any development they dislike. How are the windmills permitted when they kill and harm many migratory birds? In Halfmoon Bay there was a lawsuit about alluvial pools aka rain puddles and whether they fall under wetlands protection. Think the city lost that lawsuit.

 

[Whammy]

I get what you are saying... but this state will always find some environmental reason to screw people.
I think we can all agree about that.
Just so that everyone knows... there is no such thing as a "great horned burrowing spotted snapping fish"
I made it up to poke fun at and champion the cause of all indigenous creatures the state says has the right to live where they are, and everyone should just back off and leave them be.

I know first hand about the desert tortoise when I was stationed at the National Training Center @ Ft Irwin.
We'd actually launch medevac aircraft, and fly in tortoises that were disturbed (scared) and basically wet themselves and lose most of their water.
Its considered an emergency situation, and we'd fly these creatures to the main post to get treatment by the base veterinarian.

 

[Brokenlink]

Layers of compliance engineered in a way to shut someone down. The environmentalists use the endangered species act to stop almost any development they dislike. How are the windmills permitted when they kill and harm many migratory birds? In Halfmoon Bay there was a lawsuit about alluvial pools aka rain puddles and whether they fall under wetlands protection. Think the city lost that lawsuit.

It's all in the law man. Regarding those two issues:

1. Windmills are also required to follow the ESA and the migratory bird treaty act. Look at the current design compared to previous windfarms. They are slow rotating and much larger, which is designed solely to reduce impacts to migrating raptors. This is exactly how the laws are supposed to work to protect the resource while allowing things to continue. Mitigate the effects and move on with the work. This is exactly what I am saying in regards to Pismo. State parks need to come into compliance with the ESA, develop an HCP to address impacts to snowy plover and other species, and let the park continue to run with measures in place to protect the species.

2. I am not privy to the HMB issue, but it has to do with wetlands, the isolated wetland ruling, and navigable waters. This is exactly how the laws are not supposed to work. I could go into specifics, but I am busy trying to mitigate impacts to desert tortoises from a project and don't really have time or energy.

It can work to benefit all users. Understanding that there are other users and considerations can go a long ways on both sides

 

[Brokenlink]

I get what you are saying... but this state will always find some environmental reason to screw people.
I think we can all agree about that.
Just so that everyone knows... there is no such thing as a "great horned burrowing spotted snapping fish"
I made it up to poke fun at and champion the cause of all indigenous creatures the state says has the right to live where they are, and everyone should just back off and leave them be.

I know first hand about the desert tortoise when I was stationed at the National Training Center @ Ft Irwin.
We'd actually launch medevac aircraft, and fly in tortoises that were disturbed (scared) and basically wet themselves and lose most of their water.
Its considered an emergency situation, and we'd fly these creatures to the main post to get treatment by the base veterinarian.

if you want to place blame, then blame the Center for Biological Diversity. They are the group that typically sues the government to list or address listed species. The state is just following the law they are required to follow.

And thank you for clarifying the species, i was about to go survey for it but wasn't sure whether I needed a net, a gun, or a camera.....

 

[Whammy]

Ahhh those biological diversity bastards are to blame huh?
It always comes down to diversity, that and too much C02 in the earths atmosphere.

 

[OaklandF4i]

This is how the good environmentalists kill everything, sick the EPA on something. Make the compliance rules so onerous as to be a defacto ban. "Well you can apply for a variance but we will make sure you you never get it."

That being said ohv users should do there part to not tear the shit outta everything. I have seen how people rip it up offroad and it causes real damage, then you give a pinko commie environmetalist ammunition.

Agree, problem is the fight will NEVER be over as there is no compromise in the vocabulary of the those fighting us to close access to what little land we still have available to ride.

This ^ and the fact there is always going to be a great horned burrowing spotted snapping fish anyplace these jokers want to do a land grab.

Pretty much.......

 

[a1scoot]

Maybe we should just ban motorcycles as Im pretty sure I have run over a lizard or two....SMH
a1scoot

 

[Butch]

I'm listening to a CORVA board of directors conference call right now.

They are aggresively working to preserve our access. They are working with the business community because the economic impact is huge, some $240M per year, second only to the wine industry at $243M.

Please join CORVA. https://corva.org/join More later...

 

[Butch]

of course they started a social meda BookFace thing

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=852095541820906&story_fbid=854345344929259

 

[budman]

I'm listening to a CORVA board of directors conference call right now.

They are aggresively working to preserve our access. They are working with the business community because the econimic impact is huge,

Please join CORVA. More later,

Please join CORVA.

Good to hear Butch. Please update.

 

[onto1wheel]

playing in the sand is fun. Everyone should get out for at least a day and ride it (before the whole planet gets paved):
https://www.redbull.com/se-en/videos/watch-highlights-from-red-bull-knock-out

 

[Butch]

This is actually really complicared.
Efforts to close the State Park to OHV access has been going on for a long time. It seems The Coastal Commission has been influenced to form an opinion that the natural resources and OHV cannot coexist.

The OHV community needs to draft substantive comments that note bad data that were used for them to reach their conclusions and opinions. “Substantive Comments” is the key word here, as they address specific problems with facts and procedures used to reach conclusions and recommendations.

We have work to do. We can coexist with the great horned burrowing spotted snapping fish arachnid mollusks...

We do have to live by rules and police our own ranks.

 

[ThumperX]

An interesting alliance was made between the dog people, the mountain bikers, and the OHV enthusiests here in Marin.

Jared Huffman used to host "coffee with a Congressman" and during one of these we banded together and shut down the 2 women from the Sierra Club. Their argument is we don't belong there; however the crux of it was we are noisy and our dogs shit. They were very much in favor of grandfathering their forest cabins into the regulations.

My point, we need to find the underlying goal of those who want to shut our areas down, often it isn't what's beinf touted.
Second, we need alies. Fnd out who else treasures these dunes.

I'm with Brokenlink in my desire to preserve and protect through compromise.

 

[SVJ]

An interesting alliance was made between the dog people, the mountain bikers, and the OHV enthusiests here in Marin.

Jared Huffman used to host "coffee with a Congressman" and during one of these we banded together and shut down the 2 women from the Sierra Club. Their argument is we don't belong there; however the crux of it was we are noisy and our dogs shit. They were very much in favor of grandfathering their forest cabins into the regulations.

My point, we need to find the underlying goal of those who want to shut our areas down, often it isn't what's beinf touted.
Second, we need alies. Fnd out who else treasures these dunes.

I'm with Brokenlink in my desire to preserve and protect through compromise.

I had a big response typed up and my phone freaked out...
Short of it- I used to believe in the system. But there is no such thing as compromise in California unless you are on the side of the majority.

I've let all of my memberships to advocacy groups lapse as I give up.

I guess I applaud you all for continuing to beat your head against a brick wall.

 

[ThumperX]

I recently talked to the Sierra Club. They will not compromise. The attitude was that OHV causes irreparable damage and has no place in our society.

I found their perspective really dissapointing, and selfish. And wrong.

This is how the good environmentalists kill everything, sick the EPA on something. Make the compliance rules so onerous as to be a defacto ban. "Well you can apply for a variance but we will make sure you you never get it."

That being said ohv users should do there part to not tear the shit outta everything. I have seen how people rip it up offroad and it causes real damage, then you give a pinko commie environmetalist ammunition.

I had a big response typed up and my phone freaked out...
Short of it- I used to believe in the system. But there is no such thing as compromise in California unless you are on the side of the majority.

I've let all of my memberships to advocacy groups lapse as I give up.

I guess I applaud you all for continuing to beat your head against a brick wall.

My point exactly! At the coffee meeting, there were many individual interests. Looked like the Sierra Club folks had the stronger voice, then the dog people (3 women) the motorcycle people (2 of us) and the mountain bike people (3 of them) banded together and spoke as one voice. Looks like 1 trail will be reopened to dogs and bicycle (never had a chance for motorcycles)

 

[Butch]

I had a big response typed up and my phone freaked out...
Short of it- I used to believe in the system. But there is no such thing as compromise in California unless you are on the side of the majority.

I've let all of my memberships to advocacy groups lapse as I give up.

I guess I applaud you all for continuing to beat your head against a brick wall.

I hope and pray that, er, I hate to say social media, but the communication technology we have could change all that. In the past money bought influence because it bought TV ads and if some hip celebrity endorsed that, people supported that. Lemmings.

Closing OHV areas is bad for the environment, unless you eliminate the sport. Closing OHV areas encourages folks to ride in unmanaged areas, and crowding and accidents in existing areas. Renegades will cut fences and break the law.

I guess we could just put violators in jail. That is big business. Pretty bad for the economy and society as a whole, but good for the prison guard union, and folks who get the prison facility contracts.

Money still buys influence, I guess.