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Reanimating a greybike RVF400 (NC35)

No hello kitty cameras.. Sena 10C:thumbup:teeth

Whammy has the same visor on my Corsair V Rea3:teeth
 
Session 24: Carb needles

Once the diaphragms were out, I broke down the diaphragm assembly into its sub-components: plastic needle holder, holder O-ring, needle holder spring, washer, needle, and needle shim. The O-ring friction fits everything in the holder. They pulled apart without force but it was clear they need a good cleaning. I've been careful to keep parts grouped by cylinder and placed them in the same baggy as their companion bowls and floats.

To my eye, the parts from each position look interchangeable but maybe there are subtle differences so better safe than sorry.

You can see in the photo green deposits on the brass bits. My plan is to use acetone and ultrasonics to clean all the parts.

I'm not yet sure how much further I dare disassemble. I'm confident at this stage I can put things back the way they were but there are many more bits to take off. Some blogs suggest cracking the assembly completely apart as it can be confusing to reassemble. We'll see. I did try to take a velocity stack screw out but couldn't and damaged the screw head. :( maybe I'm being to anal about this but I want to preserve originality as much as possible.

Long ago Scott suggested reassembling with allen screws to make disassembly easier in the future. Good idea but I need to figure out how to get the OEM screw out first. Maybe I'll try some penetrant.

As a test I soaked one of the carb bowls with its long dead gasket in acetone to see how the rubber would react and if the varnish would remove. Varnish cleaned right off and the rubber predictably swelled as I learned during the carb insulator experiment. The O-ring eventually shrank once the absorbed acetone evaporated.

Including a picture of the float valve. It has a cute rubber seal at the tip, a spring plunger pin at the opposite end and a wire loop over it. Pretty cool part. The rubber feels softish but I wonder if it's still good. I don't have a fresh one to compare against. Is there a good way to tell besides risking engine flooding? And the spring pin feels stiff. Yet another part I may have to source. I hope it's not not NC35 specific or NLA and used on other bikes.
 

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Rick I would definitely replace the float valves just because you don't want to ever have to go back into the carbs if you can avoid it. Here is one source.

And for sure you need to completely disassemble all jets from the carb. There are very small passageways in the carb body as well as in the emulsion tube, slow jet etc. and if anything would be clogged it will be those small openings. From the green gunk on the outside of those jets you can be sure there is worse inside. After ultrasonic cleaning you absolutely have to confirm every passage is clear by spraying cleaner through (using small red "straw" on a spray can followed by compressed air) and inspecting visually where you can. Many passageways in the carb body are hidden, so you will need to know where they lead and confirm they are clear. Good luck!

-Bill
 
Rick I would definitely replace the float valves just because you don't want to ever have to go back into the carbs if you can avoid it. Here is one source.

And for sure you need to completely disassemble all jets from the carb. There are very small passageways in the carb body as well as in the emulsion tube, slow jet etc. and if anything would be clogged it will be those small openings. From the green gunk on the outside of those jets you can be sure there is worse inside. After ultrasonic cleaning you absolutely have to confirm every passage is clear by spraying cleaner through (using small red "straw" on a spray can followed by compressed air) and inspecting visually where you can. Many passageways in the carb body are hidden, so you will need to know where they lead and confirm they are clear. Good luck!

-Bill

Hi Bill, thanks for the advice and wisdom. I plan to teardown the carbs as far as I can/dare and thoroughly clean them.

For the float valves, is there a method to test them in the carb assembly but on the bench? Can I connect to an auxiliary fuel tank and see what happens or is that an inadequate test?
 
Hi Bill, thanks for the advice and wisdom. I plan to teardown the carbs as far as I can/dare and thoroughly clean them.

For the float valves, is there a method to test them in the carb assembly but on the bench? Can I connect to an auxiliary fuel tank and see what happens or is that an inadequate test?

Yes you can bench test the float valves, just barely compressing the spring loaded plunger to lightly seat them. But that won't necessarily tell you how well they will seat under actual running conditions with vibration, or whether the rubber ends have hardened. That's why I personally would always replace those and any other hard to access rubber part while you have the chance. The CV diaphragms are not so hard to get to later, and normally last a really long time so I wouldn't worry about reusing them.

-Bill
 
Make sure you are using a JIS screwdriver before trying to take out those screws. If you replace them, use the exact same base metal and plating, or you will ruin everything.
 
On the buggered screw head, tap on it with a flat punch and small hammer to push the burrs back down, then set a new JIS screwdriver of the right size into the screw and tap on it. That will reshape the screw to fit the driver tip. The tapping will also tend to loosen the screw. But if it's still stuck use an impact driver (gently, not sure where the screw is and how strong the part is).

-Bill
 
Make sure you are using a JIS screwdriver before trying to take out those screws. If you replace them, use the exact same base metal and plating, or you will ruin everything.

I already bought replacement stainless steel fasteners for many of the OEM zinc plated steel ones.

Are you suggesting galvanic corrosion when you say ruin everything?

SS is more noble than aluminum. But then again there shouldn't be any electrolyte/moisture present. Crap, now you have me reconsidering. Only zinc and magnesium are lower on the chart. Maybe I should stick with zinc plated screws.

Anyone have experience with stainless steel fasteners threaded into die-casting aluminum castings?
 

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Vice grips are great, if there's room, for convincing stubborn screws to come out...

On the buggered screw head, tap on it with a flat punch and small hammer to push the burrs back down, then set a new JIS screwdriver of the right size into the screw and tap on it. That will reshape the screw to fit the driver tip. The tapping will also tend to loosen the screw. But if it's still stuck use an impact driver (gently, not sure where the screw is and how strong the part is). l

Thanks for the suggestions. The Vice grip method is a good one but I want to preserve the cosmetics. It's gotta look beautiful. Bill's idea of salvaging a buggered screw by cold working it back to original as much as possible is clever.

So I have good news! I got the screws out with an impact driver. Screws look nice. :thumbup

Bad news, collateral damage. I incidentally dinged the air funnel's inlet flange edge with the impact driver's handle during the process. :loser

Damn that metal is soft.
 

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If you're replacing the screws with allen bolts later, why does it matter?

I'm an archivist/preservationist by nature (I drive myself crazy sometimes) so I prefer to tread lightly if I have the option. Oh, and I save old parts just in case.
 
I agree 10000 percent with Bill. You MUST take all the jets out and ensure they AND the passages they sit in are clear. Otherwise you'll have a bike that won't idle or only idles on the choke. The pilot jets especially, can clog up due to old gas.

Mad
 
Session 25: Main jet removal

I haven't visited the bat cave on my way home from work all winter because I am usually too tired. Tonight, however, I decided to grab the carbs and bring them to the comfort of home sweet home. But before I did that I sprayed down the carbs with carb cleaner and used a brush to scrub off much of the macro varnish green slime found all over. Ahh much better :thumbup

After dinner with family, it was playtime. I commandeered the dining room table and repurposed cookie sheet lined with parchment paper as a clean work surface :teeth

Tonight's goal was the main jets. The RVF's carb assembly is comprised of four aluminum diecast bodies with various brass bits screwed/pressfit into them. Some of the parts can be removed for cleaning/replacement, many don't seem to come out. All are small, precise and delicate looking.

The main jets have a slotted recess running across their width. I grabbed a flat tip screw driver that seemed to fit decently and tried to turn things. Left loosey, righty tighty. None were turned. I learned that carburetor brass is almost dead soft (doesn't seem hardened at all!) and deformed very easily. I managed damage the screw slot of each jet. :( Here we go again! Nothing was budging and all I got was uglier main jets. I was upset for making things less pristine. I made one last go at it by using more force and got only the driver fo cam out and spread the jet's slot wider. Crap! More cosmetic surgery to add to my growing list of things to fix.

Looking thru my driver and driver bit collection I found not all screwdriver tips are shaped the same. Some have tapered sides, some flat then curved, others mostly flat and parallel, etc. The perfectly flat and parallel is what I should have used. A bit with tapered walls contacts on too small of an area. The ideal driver would fill the slot leaving no gaps. It turns out the bit set that came with my Kirkland socket kit had the perfect shape and thickness. Quality stuff this. Made in Taiwan no less :thumbup. Take a look at the photos and you'll see what I mean. The bit on the left make even surface contact over a large area.

I loaded the bit into the driver handle and precisely placed the flat tip into the slot. No love. I dared not try any more for fear of splitting the brass. but at least this time I didn't deform the jets any further. What to do?

Looking more closely I saw that the jet screwed into another brass part. Turns out it is called the jet holder or emulsion tube. This part has a hexagonal body which looked easier to crank on. Sure enough, way easier. A 7mm socket, crack! and all 4 main jet assemblies were out. They are presently soaking in a jar of acetone in the hopes that any varnish will melt away and make it possible to remove jet from holder. We'll see.

Looking into the tapped hole where the tubes were installed I see more green caca. Per Bill and Steve's recommendations, I'll be sure to be fastidious and clean everything the best that I can.

One thing for sure, working at home is way more comfy: heat, light, food and bathroom. Think Jessica would let me bring baby into the house?:teeth
 

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At this point just hold the emulsion tube with a wrench and use vide grips to get those main jets out. You're going to need new ones anyway.

Mad
 
At this point just hold the emulsion tube with a wrench and use vide grips to get those main jets out. You're going to need new ones anyway.

Mad

That's the backup plan. That and float valves on shopping list. We'll see what happens tonight.

My bike is stock as far as I know except for Yoshimura muffler. Do I need to change jet sizes or just stay the same and get a baseline?
 
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At this point just hold the emulsion tube with a wrench and use vide grips to get those main jets out. You're going to need new ones anyway.

Mad

And be sure to buy genuine Keihin jets, NOT aftermarket.

-Bill
 
That's the backup plan. That and float valves on shopping list. We'll see what happens tonight.

My bike is stock as far as I know except for Yoshimura muffler. Do I need to change jet sizes or just stay the same and get a baseline?

Stock size or 1 up is likely ok.
 
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