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Student Loan Debt Forgiveness?

Akira-R said:
My school shut it's doors (unexpectedly) the week after i finished my last class. No time to get a transcript, diploma or anything.

Took me 2 years of writing certified letters to the state requesting my transcripts, as the loan company wouldn't forgive it without one. By the time i got it, it contained classes i never took and not all of them. And because i had to extend my school stay due to one time where they didn't have a teacher for my class, the gov'ment said you don't get a forgiven loan.

So there i was, no diploma, heavy student loans and a transcript full of shit classes i never took. Even though i should have had a diploma (with student loan debt)

I'm also not sure how the ITT one goes, but if I was approved for the loan forgiveness, all my class credits would be gone, like i never went to class at all.
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holy shit id be pissed
 
For sure. That is F’d up.
 
Akira-R said:
My school shut it's doors (unexpectedly) the week after i finished my last class. No time to get a transcript, diploma or anything.

Took me 2 years of writing certified letters to the state requesting my transcripts, as the loan company wouldn't forgive it without one. By the time i got it, it contained classes i never took and not all of them. And because i had to extend my school stay due to one time where they didn't have a teacher for my class, the gov'ment said you don't get a forgiven loan.

So there i was, no diploma, heavy student loans and a transcript full of shit classes i never took. Even though i should have had a diploma (with student loan debt)

I'm also not sure how the ITT one goes, but if I was approved for the loan forgiveness, all my class credits would be gone, like i never went to class at all.
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it's not clear if you went to ITT, but this was announced yesterday
https://www.ed.gov/news/press-relea...orrowers-who-attended-itt-technical-institute

Today, the U.S. Department of Education (Department) announced that it will discharge all remaining federal student loans that borrowers received to attend ITT Technical Institute (ITT) from January 1, 2005, through its closure in September 2016. The decision, which follows Departmental findings based on extensive internal records, testimony from ITT managers and recruiters, and first-hand accounts from borrowers, will result in 208,000 borrowers receiving $3.9 billion in full loan discharges. This includes borrowers who have not yet applied for a borrower defense to repayment discharge. These borrowers will have the federal student loans they received to attend ITT discharged without any additional action on their part.
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F no.

To preempt, I absolutely sympathize with "kids these days," in that house prices are ridiculous in CA, even two-income households might not be able to afford a home, etc. Tuition is high, and calls into question whether certain majors/universities are worthwhile from ROI perspective.

But, forgiveness is by nature and definition riddled with unfairness. Those who made a rational ROI choice not to attend college have every right to be angry. Those who paid off their loans have every right to be angry.

Forgiveness is a band-aid that doesn't address the root issues of education far outpacing inflation, excessive admin and other costs (like amazing pools/other facilities at universities and the "race to the bottom" in trying to outdo each other), etc. And, do you/can you only forgive once? Isn't that unfair to future students who might not have tuition forgiven?

If you announce blanket forgiveness in say, 2023, do you then pre-announce for the next round? If so, won't people game the system? Don't you distort considerations like major choice, if a student has no skin in the game as far as tuition?

Etc. etc. etc. etc.
 
jdhu said:
But, forgiveness is by nature and definition riddled with unfairness. Those who made a rational ROI choice not to attend college have every right to be angry. Those who paid off their loans have every right to be angry.

Forgiveness is a band-aid that doesn't address the root issues of education far outpacing inflation, excessive admin and other costs (like amazing pools/other facilities at universities and the "race to the bottom" in trying to outdo each other), etc. And, do you/can you only forgive once? Isn't that unfair to future students who might not have tuition forgiven?

If you announce blanket forgiveness in say, 2023, do you then pre-announce for the next round? If so, won't people game the system? Don't you distort considerations like major choice, if a student has no skin in the game as far as tuition?

Etc. etc. etc. etc.
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Arguments like this always sound like someone being mad that a cure for cancer was developed and released after their favorite uncle died from it.
 
TylerW said:
Arguments like this always sound like someone being mad that a cure for cancer was developed and released after their favorite uncle died from it.
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:laughing

How about, for better analogy, if the government decided to cover all cancer treatment/hospitalization costs, after my uncle couldn't afford treatment and died sooner than he would have with treatment?

Oh and, how about if I took out loans to help my uncle with treatment, paid them off, and then government decides to cover all treatment costs?

And, how about if government covers treatment costs up to today, but my uncle gets cancer tomorrow?

And, while cancer has a genetic component, what if my uncle takes good care of his health, eats a healthy diet, etc. and otherwise minimizes his risk of cancer, while we all pay for my neighbor who eats red meat every meal, doesn't use sunscreen, doesn't get annual checkups, etc.?
 
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Loan forgiveness is probably the first step in addressing rampant education costs. The next step would be free (govt-funded) education for everyone. Then every tax payer will have some skin in the game and will hopefully care about the costs. Right now, it seems like colleges will charge whatever banks will loan - which seems mostly unchecked given that bank make money from loans. But since tax payers care about how their money is spent, there should be downward pressure on costs.
 
jdhu said:
Those who made a rational ROI choice not to attend college have every right to be angry. Those who paid off their loans have every right to be angry.
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That is what we took into consideration when we got our MBAs (at night while working during the day) and for our daughter.

There are ways to minimize the cost but considering a JC as an option for the first two years is looked down upon.
 
jdhu said:
:laughing

How about, for better analogy, if the government decided to cover all cancer treatment/hospitalization costs, after my uncle couldn't afford treatment and died sooner than he would have with treatment?

Oh and, how about if I took out loans to help my uncle with treatment, paid them off, and then government decides to cover all treatment costs?

And, how about if government covers treatment costs up to today, but my uncle gets cancer tomorrow?
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Then it sucks to be you or your uncle but Jesus fucking Christ are you gonna refuse to vote for free cancer treatments because you didn't get in on the free-medicine-in-the-future deal?

There will ALWAYS be people/cases right on the edge, and on the wrong side of the delineation.
 
jdhu said:
:laughing

How about, for better analogy, if the government decided to cover all cancer treatment/hospitalization costs, after my uncle couldn't afford treatment and died sooner than he would have with treatment?

Oh and, how about if I took out loans to help my uncle with treatment, paid them off, and then government decides to cover all treatment costs?

And, how about if government covers treatment costs up to today, but my uncle gets cancer tomorrow?

And, while cancer has a genetic component, what if my uncle takes good care of his health, eats a healthy diet, etc. and otherwise minimizes his risk of cancer, while we all pay for my neighbor who eats red meat every meal, doesn't use sunscreen, doesn't get annual checkups, etc.?
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Sure, those are all fine, they're all the same argument: "I didn't get to benefit, so nobody should"

I honestly don't know which argument is worse - the "Fuck you I got mine" sentiment or the "No one should get any because I didn't get any" belief.

At some point you need to accept the idea that people in the future are going to have lives easier than yours, because that's the only way lives get any better.
 
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Punishing future people because past people suffered is idiotic.

Anyone that bitches about their tax dollars paying for public schools because they don't have children needs to rethink their position in this society.
 
The irony being that schools seem to be "me" factories.
 
byke said:
The irony being that schools seem to be "me" factories.
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Probably a product of the tail wagging the dog. Higher education, at the present moment, requires a huge personal financial investment, so people really only attend them so they can reap the benefits of significant personal educational enrichment.

If access to higher education became a public asset, you'd likely see an uptick in people wanting to use their education to generate more public good.
 
stangmx13 said:
Loan forgiveness is probably the first step in addressing rampant education costs. The next step would be free (govt-funded) education for everyone. Then every tax payer will have some skin in the game and will hopefully care about the costs. Right now, it seems like colleges will charge whatever banks will loan - which seems mostly unchecked given that bank make money from loans. But since tax payers care about how their money is spent, there should be downward pressure on costs.
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The order of steps seems off, and again, do you forgive just once? If so, how/why would that lead to cost reduction? In fact, it universities/students come to expect forgiveness from time to time, costs should RISE.

Also, the check on university tuition is student willingness to borrow and pay.
 
mean dad said:
Then it sucks to be you or your uncle but Jesus fucking Christ are you gonna refuse to vote for free cancer treatments because you didn't get in on the free-medicine-in-the-future deal?

There will ALWAYS be people/cases right on the edge, and on the wrong side of the delineation.
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LOL at "free."

TylerW said:
Sure, those are all fine, they're all the same argument: "I didn't get to benefit, so nobody should"

I honestly don't know which argument is worse - the "Fuck you I got mine" sentiment or the "No one should get any because I didn't get any" belief.

At some point you need to accept the idea that people in the future are going to have lives easier than yours, because that's the only way lives get any better.
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Maybe I misunderstand your views. You seem unable/unwilling to understand why some people would find any tuition forgiveness to be unfair. A reasonable person might conclude whatever benefits are worthwhile, despite the unfairness. But, you seem unable to acknowledge unfairness, at all.
 
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