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Tea Party?

There you go. Nice backhanded job too. I'm not saying but I am saying. ( I was going to say racial fears in the first post, but the way you phrased them, it was racist. )

BTW, when you start calling names and telling people they are full of shit, your credibility suddenly takes a nose dive. It's hard to take someone seriously when they insult you. I don't particularly mind you calling me full of shit, but it my once rather good opinion of you and your thoughts suddenly lessened.

Perhaps you misunderstood me...I can see my choice of words could have been better. I was trying to specifically exclude race as a driver. The convenience was how it suddenly became directed at Obama after it was clear a non-republican was going to occupy the whitehouse. Not sure about you, but I saw lots of people go from defending Bush to claiming they never supported his spending...the timing was right around when it was clear McCain was going to lose.

I honestly doubt you'd have the TP movement if McCain had won the election. Not because he's white, but because he wasn't on the "libtard" side.

And as for calling people full of shit...it's applied to bitching and whining, but not bothering to follow it up. You'll get change, but who the fuck knows what?

I've already said I agree with a lot of the TP complaints, I just don't see them providing viable alternatives. Seriously...they were calling for US debt default? In my mind thats like hoping to crash your car because it'll force you to buy a new one.
 
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No, I was responding to your claim that the TPers got exactly what they wanted.

I'll give them credit for stirring shit up, but stirring shit up isn't always constructive. Debt limit got raised as everyone knew it would be, with a very sketchy and most likely non-binding agreement that people would agree on the details later.

You might as well call this the wasted congress as pretty much NOTHING is going to happen until 2012. It's just posturing for the next election cycle, and from the Republican position, the TPers are more likely than not going to lose them thier slim majority.

So, once the TPers got elected, what would you have preferred that they do? Stick 100% to their principles and allow us to default or at least miss some obligations?

When I said that TPers "got what they wanted," I meant the shit-stirring and attention, and not that they succeeded 100% in their policy goals (which is OBVIOUSLY impossible).

It isn't the TPers fault that this agreement is less than ideal. I still don't get it; are you mad at them for not compromising, or calling them hypocrites for doing so?
 
So, once the TPers got elected, what would you have preferred that they do? Stick 100% to their principles and allow us to default or at least miss some obligations?

When I said that TPers "got what they wanted," I meant the shit-stirring and attention, and not that they succeeded 100% in their policy goals (which is OBVIOUSLY impossible).

It isn't the TPers fault that this agreement is less than ideal. I still don't get it; are you mad at them for not compromising, or calling them hypocrites for doing so?

I'm not mad, except maybe at myself for poorly expressing my opinion. :laughing

The way I see it, the TP is primarily people voting based on anger. That's generally a shitty way to improve anything, especially when the movement is largely exploited by pre-existing politicians. The result (with help from the left) is that the movement just added to the left right divide, and as such isn't going to accomplish much.

I see most people, whether they be left or right sharing a lot of the TP concerns, but I think the solutions we need will come from meeting in the middle. All the current debt ceiling vote shows me is both extremes paralyzing any hope to do so.

FWIW, the name calling makes all this worse. I was wrong to go as far to say "full of shit", but to my defense, it was about the effectiveness of a tactic, and not the blind calling "libtard" or "right wing" on anyone you disagree with.
 
Perhaps you misunderstood me...I can see my choice of words could have been better. I was trying to specifically exclude race as a driver. The convenience was how it suddenly became directed at Obama after it was clear a non-republican was going to occupy the whitehouse. Not sure about you, but I saw lots of people go from defending Bush to claiming they never supported his spending...the timing was right around when it was clear McCain was going to lose.

I honestly doubt you'd have the TP movement if McCain had won the election. Not because he's white, but because he wasn't on the "libtard" side.

And as for calling people full of shit...it's applied to bitching and whining, but not bothering to follow it up. You'll get change, but who the fuck knows what?

I've already said I agree with a lot of the TP complaints, I just don't see them providing viable alternatives. Seriously...they were calling for US debt default? In my mind thats like hoping to crash your car because it'll force you to buy a new one.

If bitching, whining and not following up are the criteria of "full of shit", you might want to think about how that applies to you. Or are you actually doing something besides bitching and whining? In any case, you chose to insult me and I don't appreciate it. Name calling in political discussion is a sign of an immature and ignorant mind, nothing else.

Are you familiar with partisan politics as played in European parliaments? Odd bedfellows are what the game is called. Get used to it, it's the future of America.
 
If bitching, whining and not following up are the criteria of "full of shit", you might want to think about how that applies to you. Or are you actually doing something besides bitching and whining? In any case, you chose to insult me and I don't appreciate it. Name calling in political discussion is a sign of an immature and ignorant mind, nothing else.

Are you familiar with partisan politics as played in European parliaments? Odd bedfellows are what the game is called. Get used to it, it's the future of America.

Not sure what I did to get under your skin, but I've made my apology. I've got a lot of respect for you, but you also seem to have ignored a lot of what I said and chosen the context you which to view the rest. Also not sure why you think I insulted you.

For the record, I'd say calling someone's bitching and whining for what it is isnt bitching and whining. I started by asking what TPers would do to change things and simply stated that a couple of posters were offerring complaints and not solutions. Even said I agreed with these. I also suggested what I'd change if I could. Not much else I can do on the internet :laughing

Anyways, the debt ceiling fight and political shitstorm are far from over, and unfortunately it's looking like we're in for more shitty times ahead.
 
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I have yet to see any minorities join the Tea Party movement. They are just a bunch of angry white republicans IMO
Anyone can be angry, but what is the Tea Party offerring for solutions? Seriously. All I see is populist angst and politicians using it it for gain. Also, the Tea Party seems like more of a splinter within the Republican party than any real new movement. Further polarizing our dysfunctional two party system isn't much of a change for the better.
From Tea Party Nation:
What is Tea Party Nation?
Tea Party Nation is a group of like-minded individuals who believe in our God given Individual Freedoms written out by the Founding Fathers. We believe in Limited Government, Free Speech, the Second Amendment, our Military, Secure Borders and our Country!
We hope you will join us to make and form strong bonds, network, and make plans for action with others of a like mind. We are doing what we could not do alone, to preserve that which we value.
We are not citizens of a “global community”, we are citizens of the greatest nation on God’s earth. We are Americans!
Tea Party Nation is a privately owned site. We ask nothing of our members other than to take part in advancing the conservative cause and defeating liberalism.
What are the goals of Tea Party Nation?
Tea Party Nation is designed to be a home for conservatives. It is our hope that Tea Party Nation helps its members focus on ideas, solutions and actions to help one another in this fight against liberalism and the reach of an ever-expanding government who has ignored the will of “We the People” for far too long.
What is Tea Party Nation’s "No Tolerance" policy?
Tea Party Nation is for principled, patriotic debate and organization against liberal ideology and agenda. It is not a forum for personal attacks, lewd or profane language, racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism or calls for militant uprisings or for the formation of a third party. Tea Party Nation will not tolerate spamming of our members. Tea Party Nation's strict No Tolerance policy will not make exceptions. If you are a member of Tea Party Nation, you must understand that any posting that does not adhere to these principles will be removed and members responsible will be subject to having their membership being revoked. We also request that if you see such postings, you immediately report them to Judson Phillips.


Judson Phillips writes:

On Tea Party Nation, we have discussed a Tea Party Platform. Here is a suggested Tea Party Platform based on comments people have made in response to questions we have asked on TPN. In creating the platform, we decided the following criteria would apply. We looked for what is most important to the Tea Party that could be expressed in a Tea Party Platform, that conservative candidates could sign on to and could reasonably be done in the first four years of a conservative administration. The list is not exhaustive. We limited the platform to ten issues.


Here is the proposed Tea Party Platform:

1. Cut spending. An immediate reduction in spending to 2004 levels. Government spending in 2004 was approximately $2.3 trillion. This one action will almost immediately balance the budget.

2. Create a commission for the elimination of wasteful spending. The commission would have six months to go through the federal budget and propose the elimination of spending that is simply wasteful, fraudulent or programs that do not work, have achieved their goals when they were created, or have simply failed. The commission’s proposal would go to Congress for a straight up or down vote and cannot be amended by Congress. It would then go to the President for signature.

3. Close the border with Mexico. Use military forces to completely seal the border to stop the flow of illegal immigrants, illegal narcotics and terrorists from Mexico.

4. Enforce immigration laws currently on the books. Have ICE investigate employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants and prosecute those who do.

5. Cut taxes to stimulate the economy. While our long-term goal needs to be the replacement of the income tax with a consumption based tax, the immediate goal should be to stimulate the economy with tax cuts. Start with an across the board 30% cut in personal income taxes corporate taxes and the elimination of the capital gains tax.

6. Elimination of the Department of Education and Energy, which have failed miserably in their jobs, as well as an immediate freeze in hiring new government employees, except in the area of defense and national security.

7. Create a plan to make American energy self sufficient within four years, by drilling and exploiting the natural resources we have here in America. This would include repealing laws that allow bureaucrats or liberal activist groups to file lawsuits that stop drilling or the construction of new refineries. Create rewards for those who can create marketable energy alternatives.

8. Repeal NAFTA, CAFTA and all the other free trade agreements. For America to remain a viable economic superpower, the country must have a manufacturing base. Not only do we need a manufacturing base to employ Americans, we also have crucial infrastructure components, such as power generators that are no longer made in America. If these components were destroyed in a terrorist attack, America could be crippled until we could get replacements, assuming that we could.

9. Either win Afghanistan or get out. The purpose of the military is not nation building. It is to destroy the enemy. Either we take the gloves off and let the military win in Afghanistan or we pull out.

10. Put together a commission to provide a plan to reform Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Social Security and Medicaid are rapidly heading towards insolvency. We need a plan to reform these programs.


This is a ten-point platform that is the proposed Tea Party Platform. It will not have everything everyone wants, but remember this is just the first platform. Two or Four years from now, we will have another plan; building on the successes we have after 2012.

Make sure to use the "O" word(Oreo) when you contact this guy:
Lloyd Marcus

lloyd-marcus-can-you-hear-us-now-sign.jpg
 
Regarding Tea Party Members being upset over the recent compromise...

....what are you so angry about? Yes, government still exists. We still have traffic lights. We're sorry! Not everyone defines freedom as the ability to not pay taxes. Government isn't perfect but some people wish it was better not gone. It's like you're in a bank holding people hostage and you're getting all your demands met but then you're like, "Oh one last thing. We still get to shoot the hostages, right?"
 
Finally someone posts something resembling a Tea Party Platform!

1. Cut spending. An immediate reduction in spending to 2004 levels. Government spending in 2004 was approximately $2.3 trillion. This one action will almost immediately balance the budget.
Immediate reduction in spending. Sounds great, but what would would be the side effects? Is the 2.3 trillion really representative and accurate? Can you really even make an immediate cut? We have a much higher debt service cost now than in 2004, so what would the cut look like with that factored out?

2. Create a commission for the elimination of wasteful spending. The commission would have six months to go through the federal budget and propose the elimination of spending that is simply wasteful, fraudulent or programs that do not work, have achieved their goals when they were created, or have simply failed. The commission’s proposal would go to Congress for a straight up or down vote and cannot be amended by Congress. It would then go to the President for signature.
Seems we've done this one before. Sounds great, but I wouldn;t hold much hope on this one.

3. Close the border with Mexico. Use military forces to completely seal the border to stop the flow of illegal immigrants, illegal narcotics and terrorists from Mexico.
I'd say this is probably infeasible. We've got a huge border and the military is already spread thin. Not to mention this would probably open up a host of legal challenges that would effectively put a halt to it.

4. Enforce immigration laws currently on the books. Have ICE investigate employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants and prosecute those who do.
Agree regarding employers, but it also implies an ID check system that always stirs up privacy concerns. Besides, why would we need this if the military had sealed the border?

5. Cut taxes to stimulate the economy. While our long-term goal needs to be the replacement of the income tax with a consumption based tax, the immediate goal should be to stimulate the economy with tax cuts. Start with an across the board 30% cut in personal income taxes corporate taxes and the elimination of the capital gains tax.
Agree with the consumption tax replacing income tax. Doubt tax cuts would stimulate without addressing the existing mess of tax breaks and other tax code oddities.

6. Elimination of the Department of Education and Energy, which have failed miserably in their jobs, as well as an immediate freeze in hiring new government employees, except in the area of defense and national security.
I'd agree, but not sure I'd agree giving the exception for "national security"

7. Create a plan to make American energy self sufficient within four years, by drilling and exploiting the natural resources we have here in America. This would include repealing laws that allow bureaucrats or liberal activist groups to file lawsuits that stop drilling or the construction of new refineries. Create rewards for those who can create marketable energy alternatives.
Not going to solve the problem. Even if we increase domestic supplies, it won't combat the price pressures from emerging nations. Also, this doesn't address longer term issues, and like it or not, there is an environmental issue to concern with.

8. Repeal NAFTA, CAFTA and all the other free trade agreements. For America to remain a viable economic superpower, the country must have a manufacturing base. Not only do we need a manufacturing base to employ Americans, we also have crucial infrastructure components, such as power generators that are no longer made in America. If these components were destroyed in a terrorist attack, America could be crippled until we could get replacements, assuming that we could.
China is the problem, and we've set ourselves up to the point where we can't just unilaterally withdraw from our admittedly unfair trade relationship. Absolutely need to inceniveize domestic capabilities, but I doubt its as simple as recinding a couple trade agreements.

9. Either win Afghanistan or get out. The purpose of the military is not nation building. It is to destroy the enemy. Either we take the gloves off and let the military win in Afghanistan or we pull out.
You can't "win" Afghanistan, nor can we feasibly withdraw completely. It was bullshit when Obama said it and it's still bullshit. Minimize our presence is the best we can (and should) do.

10. Put together a commission to provide a plan to reform Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Social Security and Medicaid are rapidly heading towards insolvency. We need a plan to reform these programs.
What better way to address the lack of a plan than form a commission to make a plan!
 
Not sure what I did to get under your skin, but I've made my apology. I've got a lot of respect for you, but you also seem to have ignored a lot of what I said and chosen the context you which to view the rest. Also not sure why you think I insulted you.

.

Really? Is that why you edited your post to remove the insult? Because you did not know it was an insult? :rofl
 
Really? Is that why you edited your post to remove the insult? Because you did not know it was an insult? :rofl

I didn't edit anything out that I can recall. I remeber corrected a spelling error and I also ADDING to a post or two.

Let me be very clear. I did not intentionally insult you, and don't know what you think I said that did. I've been posting while doing other work and have been sloppy...thats about it.

edit: Honestly...not sure if you're serious or fucking with me.
 
Ahh, here it is:
Sorry, I thought this was a discussion about the Tea Party. :twofinger

I agree with a lot of what the TPs are frustrated with, I just don't see it as an effective means of change. That was how I interpetted the subject of this thread. If you want to sit around and bitch and whine about something and suggest that is a solution then I think you're full of shit.
 
This is exactly why the Tea Party exists. People woke up.

Crazy talk. There was no "Wake up" There was BIG money funding from the Koch bros. and the backing of Fox news. The rest of the corporate media picked it up and suddenly 250 man rallies were getting the coverage that a million anti-war protesters couldn't get.
 
Crazy talk. There was no "Wake up" There was BIG money funding from the Koch bros. and the backing of Fox news. The rest of the corporate media picked it up and suddenly 250 man rallies were getting the coverage that a million anti-war protesters couldn't get.
Links, please. This is a good conspiracy theory.

You do know that one of the greediest, most despicable bond raiders of all time helped fund the election of Barack Obama, don't you? You do know that CURRENTLY, Wall Street is giving more money to the Obama re-election campaign than anyone else, don't you?
 
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